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You CLE Fans don't want Alex Smith???
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Canadian_Patriot


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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Location: Halifax
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

docc2183 wrote:

As for Smith, he might be a good QB but he doesn't project to be the best player available at the #3 pick. If we got him at around #10-#12, I could see that being valuable.


Trade down.

docc2183 wrote:

Just remember Tom Brady. While you did have Bledsoe running the show when you drafted him, he came in as a 6th rounder or 7th rounder and made an impact.


You can't honestly believe you can depend on getting a starter in the 5th-7th rounds. You can't depend on that. We were lucky.


docc2183 wrote:

Everyone knows he runs a "gimmick" offense at Utah, and as soon as Coach Meyer jumped to UF, he was gone. He didn't want to stay around and lose his value in a real offense. I know he already has his degree and that he projected as a top 10 pick, but I don't think 1 good year of college football is enough for me, or any of us here.


He started 2 years at Utah and went 20-1 had 5000 yards 43 tds 7 ints and completed 65% of his passes.

2 good years. Thats all most college QB's have, what do you expect.

And why wouldn't he leave? Hes losing his coach and half of his team..he was nominated for the heisman, won the fiesta bowl.

Why stay? Most wouldn't.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16246
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we trade down, it's not to take a QB, unless it's with the second round pick we get for trading down. That would be ideal.

Then we could get Kyle Orton. A strong armed pocket passer. The exact thing Romeo wants. If we did that would you, and your huge sigs, leave us alone about it?

When you draft BPA, you don't depend on getting anything in it. You just grab the best player available.

Andre Ware had a bajillion yards in a pass happy offense, much like Urban Meyer's, which led to some very misleading statistics. Detroit, the suckers, were fished in by the lure of stats. Please look at Andre's NFL Career stats.

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1990 det | 4 | 13 30 43.3 164 5.5 1 2 | 7 64 0 |
| 1991 det | 1 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 4 6 0 |
| 1992 det | 4 | 50 86 58.1 677 7.9 3 4 | 20 124 0 |
| 1993 det | 5 | 20 45 44.4 271 6.0 1 2 | 7 23 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 14 | 83 161 51.6 1112 6.9 5 8 | 38 217 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-------------------+

This from a Heisman winner.

In 1989, his junior season at Houston, Ware set major college records by throwing for 4,699 yards and 46 TDs, leading the Houston Cougars to a 9-2 record. He declared for the NFL draft, forgoing his senior year, confident that he had impressed NFL scouts. After one pre-draft workout, a scout declared, "Gentlemen, we are looking at the next great quarterback in the National Football League."

Funny how history repeats itself.
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The Holcombnite


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1947
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simply stated..if san francisco or miami wont draft them, and they have slight QB problems just the same, why should we?

For the following:

A) The top teams have other pressing needs aside from the Qb posistion

B) There are other top tier QB available later in the draft (Kyle Orton, Charlie Frye) and next year (Matt Leinart)

C) Again if Miami and San Francisco are not sure of drafting unsoldified talent and paying them 8 digit signing bonus', why should we and sacrifce our cap for the future?

D) We need a pass rusher, a pass rushing LB(s) and a shutdown corner, before we even consider a Qb. Add help on the line as well.

Please, other Browns fans continue to contribute to this list as why we do NOT need a Qb in the first round.
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Canadian_Patriot


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea but ditch man.... you can't just use one example of a QB tooken early. Look at all the guys that did work out.

My point is, that it is really going to suck if you guys pass on him and he end up in hilight reels on mondays mornings. And you have a guy like Derrick Johnson being pushed back into your secondary on running plays. Theres an element to risk with every postion. You guys talk like taking DJ or Rolle is a sure thing. Just as man CB and LB's tooken early have not work out as QB's. Its always going to be a risk.
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The Holcombnite


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1947
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The QB's this year (projected first rounders) are the biggest risk pick this year, they are over rated, cap eating, no goods.

Again, just cause they are "rated high" doesnt mean we have to take him.
Im for the idea of jumping experts opinions, I think we should jump the board and get Merriman or Rolle, and I do not see why not. They are low risk IMO, and could have an immediate impact, a la Tommie Harris, who ALSO jumped the board last year, and turned out to be a great pick by the Bears.
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DaBrowns41


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 22934
Location: Reynoldsburg, OH
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1990 det | 4 | 13 30 43.3 164 5.5 1 2 | 7 64 0 |
| 1991 det | 1 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 4 6 0 |
| 1992 det | 4 | 50 86 58.1 677 7.9 3 4 | 20 124 0 |
| 1993 det | 5 | 20 45 44.4 271 6.0 1 2 | 7 23 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 14 | 83 161 51.6 1112 6.9 5 8 | 38 217 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-------------------+


Hey, those look like Trent Dilfer's numbers...
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian_Patriot wrote:
Yea but ditch man.... you can't just use one example of a QB tooken early. Look at all the guys that did work out.


I used him, because just like Alex Smith, his draft stock benefitted from a pass happy offense that had good success, and got both Ware and Smith Heisman nominations. That is not a random example, they are more similar than you would like to believe.

It won't suck any more than watching Ladanian Tomlinson or Richard Seymour dominate games. It would actually suck less, because if indeed Alex becomes a star in the NFL (and that's a big IF), it would be in a system completely different from the one we will be running. Saying he could be a pocket passer is like saying Mike Vick is going to. It's their natural instinct to take off after the first one or two reads, and they almost throw better on the run. Alex would be perfect for a team like San Francisco, which is going to use the WCO next year. They have a weak line, so a mobile quarterback seems like a great fit there.

Go pimp him on the Niners board.
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clever.

More like this:

PASSING

G GS Att Comp Pct Yards TD Int Rating

112 96 2620 1447 55.2 17031 95 105 70.6


Not exactly awe inspiring numbers, but this one is.

He won 24 of the last 29 games he started.

That's pretty much the only stats that matter.


Last edited by ditchdigger on Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eagles1fan5


Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1376
Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone in there right mind that thinks Matt Leinart is going to be a good QB in the NFL is insane. That dude couldn't throw a spiral if his life depended on it, in the Championship game his own teammates were joking with him that it was his first time he ever threw them spirals all game. Of course your going to be awesome when you have the best O-Line in college football blocking for you, Reggie Bush the most exciting player with Ted Ginn Jr in College Football. You got so much talent around you of course your going to be good. Same thing with Jason White. Jason White aint a great QB but his stats look that way because of all the amazing talent around him. (Mark Clayton, Jamaal Brown etc.) College stats do mean a little of something.....but shouldnt be the reason you take a guy. Oklahoma had what...2-3 games tops where they played someone who was actually decent.... He goes against USC and chokes. Jason White isnt even worth a 7th RD Pick!
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docc2183


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we do indeed draft Alex Smith, we will be the ones who are being "tooken"
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travis1metallic


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not a QB in the first round. First none of these QB's in my eyes didnt play in the big ten or any real defensive conference. Second, we definitely need to improve our shady defense. Third we can obtain a QB in the second - fourth round who is gonna play just as good as the 2 first round busts u think we need to draft.
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Canadian_Patriot


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did carson palmer,kyle boller or ben roethlisbeger play in the big ten or a defensive conference? No.

Its ok to not agree but thats just stupid.
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BrownOrangeBurgundyGold


Joined: 17 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

College Football is not the NFL. Period.

Sure, you can get an idea of a QB's physical talents through college games, but you can't get an understanding of the player's ability to lead teams or read defenses. Half of these QB's were set up in some type of pass-happy offense that amplified their numbers. College defenses are a lot weaker than NFL defenses. So if you tell me that Alex Smith had great college numbers, fine. That's a start. Now can you tell me if he's going to be able to drop back into the pocket and make the right reads? For every Ben Roethlisberger that enters the NFL, there are many more Akili Smiths. Canadian Patriot, you should know better than to base a QB's value based on what round he's projected in. Tom Brady didn't go in the first round. Or the second round. Or the third round. He went in the sixth round. You know this.

We don't need to blow our first round third pick overall on grooming a QB that doesn't even fit our system. Alex Smith is not the future of the Browns.
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Bart


Joined: 26 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't Ryan Leaf have a great College career too.

The Browns do not want Alex Smith. Are you his agent or cousin or something?

Yes he has a great deal of potential but the Browns are not making this pick.

Maybe after he beats the Browns or wins something in the (NFL) you could bring this subjet up again,,, but for now,,,, read my lips....

Do... You... Understand??? The Browns... Will... Not... Pick... Alex... Smith... In... The... First... Round...

Everybody, louder now!!! Do... You... Understand... ............
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Canadian_Patriot


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrownOrangeBurgundyGold wrote:
College Football is not the NFL. Period. Sure, you can get an idea of a QB's physical talents through college games, but you can't get an understanding of the player's ability to lead teams or read defenses.


Thats true, the don't have defenses in college football...Rolling Eyes


BrownOrangeBurgundyGold wrote:

Now can you tell me if he's going to be able to drop back into the pocket and make the right reads?


You obviously have never seen him play. His strengh is his ability to read defenses and make smart decisons

BrownOrangeBurgundyGold wrote:

For every Ben Roethlisberger that enters the NFL, there are many more Akili Smiths. Canadian Patriot, you should know better than to base a QB's value based on what round he's projected in. Tom Brady didn't go in the first round. Or the second round. Or the third round. He went in the sixth round. You know this.


I've said this before....you can't go looking for a starter in the late rounds...thats just stupid,

The round that each QB of each divison winner was tooken in...

Brady - 6th
Manning - 1st
Roethlisberger - 1st
Brees - 2nd

McNabb - 1st
Favre - 2nd
Vick - 1st
Hasselback - 6th

See any patterns???

All im saying is that in general most successful teams have great QB's. Just look, the rounds don't lie.

But whatever lets end this arguement.
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