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va4hustlers


Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 2885
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
Improve the defense. Vick is not the problem.


defense lost the falcons a few games this season.

anyway, atlanta should trade up and pick up mario williams or mathias kiwanuka. yessssssssssss.
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egrizzard


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 988
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am fairly new here, so I don't understand the whole debate.

Vick is the most exciting player in the NFL, period. he is an incredible market draw, and even other players say he is the one player they would "pay to watch".

Vick is not a good pocket guy. Manning can not run in the open like Vick. Every team, coach, and system has its idea of what is best for them. My point here is, Vick is a one of a kind. You can't compare him to other qb's. It is not fair.

Roddy White will develop into an amazing reciever--and Crumpler doesn't even need explaining. I think Vick would be more effective rolling out off of play-action, but what do I know? Rolling Eyes

To end this, Vick IS trhe Falcons. No more discussion needed.
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William_Ohms


Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2641
Location: GO FLORIDA STATE!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Def is def what lost us our games this year... after we grab DEF in the first 2 RDs hopefully S and DE then that will help... If we can trade Schaub for an extra 1sr RD the would improve us all the more... I think we will be back next year... Even though Tampa is getting better also
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MadAtFalcons


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 5586
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news us carolina's not gettin any better really, hopefully they'll cool down. yeesh they destroyed us BOTH games.
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mike12345


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 722
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.
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MadAtFalcons


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 5586
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike12345 wrote:
all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.

very good. thats what vick said last season but... we were 8-8...
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TheIncomparable


Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 364
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadAtFalcons wrote:
mike12345 wrote:
all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.

very good. thats what vick said last season but... we were 8-8...


Yeah because the defense folded everytime Vick gave them a lead in the 4th quarter. I can think of at least 5 games where Vick handed them a lead in the 4th quarter and they handed it over like they were getting mugged. Vick isn't the problem.
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MadAtFalcons


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 5586
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheIncomparable wrote:
MadAtFalcons wrote:
mike12345 wrote:
all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.

very good. thats what vick said last season but... we were 8-8...


Yeah because the defense folded everytime Vick gave them a lead in the 4th quarter. I can think of at least 5 games where Vick handed them a lead in the 4th quarter and they handed it over like they were getting mugged. Vick isn't the problem.

I know, I love vick. I wasn't blaming it on him, I was just saying that when he was getting critisized he said stats don't matter, wins do. But we didn't have a winning season. I agree it was the defenses fault, we couldn't stop the run and deangelo hall can't cover everybody. Shocked
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va4hustlers


Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 2885
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadAtFalcons wrote:
TheIncomparable wrote:
MadAtFalcons wrote:
mike12345 wrote:
all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.

very good. thats what vick said last season but... we were 8-8...


Yeah because the defense folded everytime Vick gave them a lead in the 4th quarter. I can think of at least 5 games where Vick handed them a lead in the 4th quarter and they handed it over like they were getting mugged. Vick isn't the problem.

I know, I love vick. I wasn't blaming it on him, I was just saying that when he was getting critisized he said stats don't matter, wins do. But we didn't have a winning season. I agree it was the defenses fault, we couldn't stop the run and deangelo hall can't cover everybody. Shocked


think we need to find that duplicater machine and make us a few DeAngelo Halls Very Happy
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scar988


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Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 29496
Location: Marietta, GA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

va4hustlers wrote:
MadAtFalcons wrote:
TheIncomparable wrote:
MadAtFalcons wrote:
mike12345 wrote:
all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.

very good. thats what vick said last season but... we were 8-8...


Yeah because the defense folded everytime Vick gave them a lead in the 4th quarter. I can think of at least 5 games where Vick handed them a lead in the 4th quarter and they handed it over like they were getting mugged. Vick isn't the problem.

I know, I love vick. I wasn't blaming it on him, I was just saying that when he was getting critisized he said stats don't matter, wins do. But we didn't have a winning season. I agree it was the defenses fault, we couldn't stop the run and deangelo hall can't cover everybody. Shocked


think we need to find that duplicater machine and make us a few DeAngelo Halls Very Happy

we could just draft Joseph in the 3rd...
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MadAtFalcons


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 5586
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
va4hustlers wrote:
MadAtFalcons wrote:
TheIncomparable wrote:
MadAtFalcons wrote:
mike12345 wrote:
all i know is that the falcons win a whole lot more games when vick is starting.

stats dont matter as long as you win and most of the time thats what he does.

very good. thats what vick said last season but... we were 8-8...


Yeah because the defense folded everytime Vick gave them a lead in the 4th quarter. I can think of at least 5 games where Vick handed them a lead in the 4th quarter and they handed it over like they were getting mugged. Vick isn't the problem.

I know, I love vick. I wasn't blaming it on him, I was just saying that when he was getting critisized he said stats don't matter, wins do. But we didn't have a winning season. I agree it was the defenses fault, we couldn't stop the run and deangelo hall can't cover everybody. :shock:


think we need to find that duplicater machine and make us a few DeAngelo Halls :D

we could just draft Joseph in the 3rd...
man we completely forgot this thread was about mike vick (ya we should clone Hall)
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[Shiver]


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 299
Location: Kansas City, MO
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike has done everything you could want out of a Quarterback. A Quarterback is asked to do two things..


1) Win games

2) Advance the offense


What does it matter if he doesn't do those things conventionally. He has hardly done so with a lot of help. The team since 2002 without him is 3-12 without him starting.

A good comparison to Mike, is John Elway. Another Quarterback drafted by Dan Reeves, a player he thought was comparable to John Elway. Guess what people. Michael Vick is a better passer now then the hall of fame quarterback John Elway at this point in their respective careers.

Michael Vick through 51 starts

9,031 passing yards through 726 completions, or 12.43 yards per completion, tops in the current NFL for starters.

51 touchdowns

39 interceptions

54.1 completion %

75.8 passer rating

John Elway through 56 starts

11,637 yards through 944 completions, or 12.32 yards per completion

66 touchdowns

65 interceptions

53.3 completion %

70.1 passer rating


So as you can clearly see, in no aspect was John Elway statistically superior to Michael Vick when it comes to passing statistics in this early portion of his career, Vick has a..

better completion pct
better yards per completion
better touchdown to interception ratio
better passer rating

It took John Elway 10 years to complete 60% of his passes, he didn't even do so when he won the super bowl with Mike Shannahan's WCO.

Fact of the matter is Elway was a winner, Vick is too. Both had a knack for leading mediorce teams into the playoffs. Just give him time people. He showed glimpses this season, combine that with a great QB coach, a offseason of deeloping a repertoire with Roddy and MJ, and even marginal improvements in pass protection, Michael will show big strides when it comes to passing the football on a consistent basis.

This is not to say that Michael is without flaws. Most of the time this season he was a efficient passer, 9 of his 15 starts he had passer ratings of at least 83, including two great games versus Tampa Bay, the team that supposedly "owned" him. He just had some really bad "statistical" performances that dragged down his overall rating.
He needs to improve two things in my opinion.

1) His footwork and mechanics, at times they we're inconsistant and lead to struggles passing the football. However the hiring of Bill Musgrave is a great sign, mechanics and footwork is his specialty.

2) Instincts, at times this season he was hesitant. Sometimes he wouldn't know when to run or when to throw. Sometimes he gave up on his reads too soon, other times he doesn't take over games when he could have. He needs to let the game come to him and not force it, be himself.
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D-Rod


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 628
Location: London
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great stuff, shiver, nice comparison. i'll settle for a couple of superbowl wins...

i think a huge vick issue for knapp to think over is how to combat the spy defence. if we're going to win the division next year, we're going to have to beat the panthers, at least at home. so knapp has to think up a way to combat thomas davis, and free up vicky to do his thing. other teams will doubtless be copying the davis/urlacher tactic also. admittedly not many teams have the athletes capable of keeping up with superman.

i'm no coach, but i had one idea. how about spying the spy. on selected pass or bootroll plays, give griffith the sole aim of getting to the spy and knocking him to the ground. it's going to be a lot harder for the spy to focus on vick if he's got someone of griffith's pace and power flying at him. obviously that would take something out of the overall protection, or lose a passing outlet, but i think that, in selected plays, it would be worthwhile. griffith has the pace to track them down, and the power to get through to them.

i think it could work. feedback?
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MadAtFalcons


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 5586
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-Rod wrote:
great stuff, shiver, nice comparison. i'll settle for a couple of superbowl wins...

i think a huge vick issue for knapp to think over is how to combat the spy defence. if we're going to win the division next year, we're going to have to beat the panthers, at least at home. so knapp has to think up a way to combat thomas davis, and free up vicky to do his thing. other teams will doubtless be copying the davis/urlacher tactic also. admittedly not many teams have the athletes capable of keeping up with superman.

i'm no coach, but i had one idea. how about spying the spy. on selected pass or bootroll plays, give griffith the sole aim of getting to the spy and knocking him to the ground. it's going to be a lot harder for the spy to focus on vick if he's got someone of griffith's pace and power flying at him. obviously that would take something out of the overall protection, or lose a passing outlet, but i think that, in selected plays, it would be worthwhile. griffith has the pace to track them down, and the power to get through to them.

i think it could work. feedback?
hmmm. a fullback spying a LB... It really is our best shot. but I don't know, sounds tough. You need an excellent blocking fullback, I honestly don't know what kind ('Wink'). but grfiffith might be up to the task. hmmm I dont konow, sounds pretty challenging. I suppose griffith could be like his bodyguard and follow him around wherever he goes (secifically outside the pocket). its possible.
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[Shiver]


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 299
Location: Kansas City, MO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To defeat a team using a spy, you need to be able to break it down by passing the football. Not to sugar coat it, but Michael has been wildly inconsistant. Most of the time he is a efficient passer, but in some games like the Carolina and Chicago games he struggled and the offense struggled.


Of course most teams do not have any where near the atletes those teams have on the defense. Thomas Davis and Brian Urlacher are freaks, very few teams have those kind of equalizers.
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