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Chiefs intrested in Surtain
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

figure8 wrote:
The Colts can't trade James because he is a free agent.


A growing trend in the NFL is to franchise a guy and trade him. Don't be surprised if this is what happens with James.
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KC Warpaint


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 63
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you cannot franchise a "FREE" agent. hence the title "FREE" ...if he is a restricted FA then yes...
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SBorBust


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 71
Location: Utah
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC Warpaint wrote:
you cannot franchise a "FREE" agent. hence the title "FREE" ...if he is a restricted FA then yes...


Actually, I am pretty sure you can franchise any free agent. Just like Julian Peterson, Drew Brees, John Abraham, Orlando Pace and all of those high priced free agents. They are all Unrestricted Free Agents. All Restricted Free Agency gets a team is right of first refusal I think, which means they can match an offer give by any team first, and if they don't, they get like a draft pick or something in return. I believe this is right, but I have been wrong before...
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KC Warpaint


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOH!!!

Did some recon work on another area of this board and it looks like i was wrong, guess you can put franchise tag on a UFA...thought it had something to do with a team still having rights to a player, but i guess it can be done to get something instead of nothing...
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was done with Champ Bailey last year prior to him being traded, I believe.
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2TP3


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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Location: KCMO home of the Chiefs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surtain is well worth a 2nd and if that doesnt get it done offer a 2nd day pick to sweeten the deal...we have 9 draft picks this year.
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Backwoodsboy65


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 6802
Location: Central Florida
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current word in Miami chatrooms right now is that the dolphins have offered Surtain, but the chiefs aren't sure about giving up their 1st for him, but they seem willing to give up a 2nd. This may prompt the dolphins to add DT Jeff Zgognia into the trade. Zgognia is a huge DT that has backed up Larry Chester, and has some of the biggest arms in the NFL; he is extremely strong.

Miami gets: Cheifs 1st rounder (#15?)

KC gets: Patrick Surtain (CB), Jeff Zgognia (DT)

What to yall think about that trade, does KC need help on the Defensive front?
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2TP3


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way I would do that trade, theyd have to throw in thier 3rd round pick instead of Zgognia. No corner is worth a first round pick I dont care who it is and Zgognia wont add no face value to the trade either, hes a career back up. I dont see the Chiefs trading thier 1st unless we were getting a 1st back.
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2TP3 wrote:
No way I would do that trade, theyd have to throw in thier 3rd round pick instead of Zgognia. No corner is worth a first round pick I dont care who it is and Zgognia wont add no face value to the trade either, hes a career back up. I dont see the Chiefs trading thier 1st unless we were getting a 1st back.


I disagree that a CB is worth a #1. It's become one of the toughest positions to fill in the NFL.

However, in this case, I agree that our #15 is too much for Surtain. I don't like giving it up even if Miami throws in a R3 or a backup like Zgodina.

I'd rather give our R2 and a later pick or perhaps someone like Welbourne to help shore up Miami's O-line.
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Backwoodsboy65


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to update you guys with what we are hearing down here in Florida...

Seems that the Chiefs and Dolphins could have the trade completed by Wednesday that would send Patrick Surtain to the Chiefs and the Dolphins could get the 46th pick overall (2nd round) and a future pick (probably 3rd or 4th rounder). Seems like a good deal for both teams.

Also, the Chiefs turned down Junior Seau's agent on a deal that would have Seau released by the dolphins, then picked up by the Chiefs.
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frankmoore


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2TP3 wrote:
No corner is worth a first round pick I dont care who it is

Then why did Denver send Clinton Portis & a 2nd round pick to Washington last year for Champ Bailey?

The fact is that Mongo is right, shut-down CBs are in the same class as DEs, QBs, and LTs -- franchise-caliber players.

As for trading for Surtain, I think that a 2nd round pick this year and a conditional 3rd round pick next year which could increase to a 1st or 2nd depending on performance (of Surtain and the entire Chiefs defense) is not out of line.

Why should the Chiefs trade for Surtain instead of sign one of the other CBs out there? Well, for starters, Surtain has a history of playing well against AFC West teams. KC would also be assured of getting him, which is not always the case in free agency (just ask Herm Edwards who thought that he had Antoine Winfield signed last year).

Sure Surtain comes with a slight injury history (cranky knee), but he's produced (unlike Charles Woodson), he's also got good character (unlike Fred Smoot), and he isn't a potential suspension candidate (Samari Rolle). I'll also add that all three of those other players are looking for 8-figure signing bonuses. Given that, Surtain might actually be a bargain.
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2TP3


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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Location: KCMO home of the Chiefs
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankmoore wrote:
2TP3 wrote:
No corner is worth a first round pick I dont care who it is

Then why did Denver send Clinton Portis & a 2nd round pick to Washington last year for Champ Bailey?

The fact is that Mongo is right, shut-down CBs are in the same class as DEs, QBs, and LTs -- franchise-caliber players.

As for trading for Surtain, I think that a 2nd round pick this year and a conditional 3rd round pick next year which could increase to a 1st or 2nd depending on performance (of Surtain and the entire Chiefs defense) is not out of line.

Why should the Chiefs trade for Surtain instead of sign one of the other CBs out there? Well, for starters, Surtain has a history of playing well against AFC West teams. KC would also be assured of getting him, which is not always the case in free agency (just ask Herm Edwards who thought that he had Antoine Winfield signed last year).

Sure Surtain comes with a slight injury history (cranky knee), but he's produced (unlike Charles Woodson), he's also got good character (unlike Fred Smoot), and he isn't a potential suspension candidate (Samari Rolle). I'll also add that all three of those other players are looking for 8-figure signing bonuses. Given that, Surtain might actually be a bargain.

Did you see what Denver ended up getting out of thier "shut down corner" last year, he struggled all year long. The fact of the matter is that since the 5 yard chuck rule there are no more shut down corners just good enough corners and to me that doesnt justify a 1st round pick. Plus Denver didnt end up giving a 1st round pick up for Chump, Portis was a 2nd and they gave up a 2nd, nowhere did I see a 1st.
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mh


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 98
Location: West Point, NY
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it matters much what we have to give for Surtain...a 2 and a 3,4,5, whatever, he is a player that is almost a lock to give our defense a boost. Why does everyone keep saying that we shouldn't go after a shut down corner simply because of the five yard rule? It's not like the only yards that matter are the first five. Ball skills, recovery speed, run support, all those matter too. One rule doesn't change the fact that Surtain is still a great all-around corner who will cause turnovers and help our pass d greatly.
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bpinsky33


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 1628
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually denver got Chump and a 2nd for Portis

Not Portis and a 2nd for Chump
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