You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Calvin Johnson not happy with how things ended
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 11146
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.


Or to cut, restructure, trade, or extend others...
_________________
Montana badboy wrote:
Nnivolcm is a boss. That is all.
LionsFTW wrote:
All hail Nnivolcm.

Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.


Or to cut, restructure, trade, or extend others...


SO you think out of spite the team would cut top players or top players would accept restructures to bring back a guy that doesn't want to be there. I don't.

Trading enough guys to make the cap difference would leave your team in a worst spot and you'd still with a huge cap hit on a guy that doesn't want to be there.

The fact that you'd be committing 12% of you cap on someone that isn't gonna really help your team win is worst business than actually getting something for him in a trade IMO. But we can agree to disagree.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 11146
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.


Or to cut, restructure, trade, or extend others...


SO you think out of spite the team would cut top players or top players would accept restructures to bring back a guy that doesn't want to be there. I don't.

Trading enough guys to make the cap difference would leave your team in a worst spot and you'd still with a huge cap hit on a guy that doesn't want to be there.

The fact that you'd be committing 12% of you cap on someone that isn't gonna really help your team win is worst business than actually getting something for him in a trade IMO. But we can agree to disagree.


You're making an awful lot of assumptions. I didn't say anything about spite. You assume trading people would leave our roster depleted. You assume he wouldn't help the team win. And finally, you assume we can agree to disagree. I disagree about that. Laughing

My point was that there are lots of ways to work around the cap. You can't say there is little choice but to release or trade him when there are actually several options on the table if he decides to un retire.
_________________
Montana badboy wrote:
Nnivolcm is a boss. That is all.
LionsFTW wrote:
All hail Nnivolcm.

Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.


Or to cut, restructure, trade, or extend others...


SO you think out of spite the team would cut top players or top players would accept restructures to bring back a guy that doesn't want to be there. I don't.

Trading enough guys to make the cap difference would leave your team in a worst spot and you'd still with a huge cap hit on a guy that doesn't want to be there.

The fact that you'd be committing 12% of your cap on someone that isn't gonna really help your team win is worst business than actually getting something for him in a trade IMO. But we can agree to disagree.


You're making an awful lot of assumptions. I didn't say anything about spite. You assume trading people would leave our roster depleted. You assume he wouldn't help the team win. And finally, you assume we can agree to disagree. I disagree about that. Laughing

My point was that there are lots of ways to work around the cap. You can't say there is little choice but to release or trade him when there are actually several options on the table if he decides to un retire.


So you don't disagree with me haha. That was easy.

But really the only assumption I'm making is that he doesn't want to play for your team. I make that assumption because he RETIRED and left a boatload of cash on the table to get away from you, detailed the reasons he left on multiple occasions and has been flirting with us (for lack of a better phrase) for the last few weeks. If he had a desire to comeback to play for you, he'd be at your OTAs and would be complimenting your QB, who he is friends with still.

Yes, there are several options on the table. You can ask Stafford and Ziggy to restructure their deals. Then Calvin would have to re-affrim that he doesn't want to play for you. That is if they would even agree to that with CJ not planning on suiting up for you. And then you're paying for a guy you'll get nothing from when you could trade him and get value back.

You could trade Marvin Jones and a top tier O or D linemen or some other combo of players but that leaves holes in other places and you still have to deal with Calvin not wanting to play for you and getting no value for that money.

So, like I said, my informed assumption may not point to fewer choices but the smart choice in those scenarios is to get value for someone you weren't counting on and/or can't count on to help you on the field instead of creating holes in the roster to prove a "business point", if you are offended by me calling it spite.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nagahide13


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 12371
Location: Stumptown
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, the Lions invited Calvin to camp today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 11146
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.


Or to cut, restructure, trade, or extend others...


SO you think out of spite the team would cut top players or top players would accept restructures to bring back a guy that doesn't want to be there. I don't.

Trading enough guys to make the cap difference would leave your team in a worst spot and you'd still with a huge cap hit on a guy that doesn't want to be there.

The fact that you'd be committing 12% of your cap on someone that isn't gonna really help your team win is worst business than actually getting something for him in a trade IMO. But we can agree to disagree.


You're making an awful lot of assumptions. I didn't say anything about spite. You assume trading people would leave our roster depleted. You assume he wouldn't help the team win. And finally, you assume we can agree to disagree. I disagree about that. Laughing

My point was that there are lots of ways to work around the cap. You can't say there is little choice but to release or trade him when there are actually several options on the table if he decides to un retire.


So you don't disagree with me haha. That was easy.

But really the only assumption I'm making is that he doesn't want to play for your team. I make that assumption because he RETIRED and left a boatload of cash on the table to get away from you, detailed the reasons he left on multiple occasions and has been flirting with us (for lack of a better phrase) for the last few weeks. If he had a desire to comeback to play for you, he'd be at your OTAs and would be complimenting your QB, who he is friends with still.

Yes, there are several options on the table. You can ask Stafford and Ziggy to restructure their deals. Then Calvin would have to re-affrim that he doesn't want to play for you. That is if they would even agree to that with CJ not planning on suiting up for you. And then you're paying for a guy you'll get nothing from when you could trade him and get value back.

You could trade Marvin Jones and a top tier O or D linemen or some other combo of players but that leaves holes in other places and you still have to deal with Calvin not wanting to play for you and getting no value for that money.

So, like I said, my informed assumption may not point to fewer choices but the smart choice in those scenarios is to get value for someone you weren't counting on and/or can't count on to help you on the field instead of creating holes in the roster to prove a "business point", if you are offended by me calling it spite.


I think it's a dangerous precedent to set to let players strong arm their way out of a contract. Hypothetically, lets say we trade CJ after he says he wants to play again but not for the Lions. Lets also say that Stafford signs a contract extension (like all signs point to happening) and Dak Prescott suffers a sophomore slump he never recovers from. A few years down the line Dallas moves on and is looking for a new franchise QB. Stafford grew up in Texas and decides he wants to play for his home town team, and since the Lions let CJ out of his contract, all he would have to do is threaten to retire and say some unflattering things to the media and he'd be the next QB of his home town team. I don't think that benefits the Lions franchise at all.
_________________
Montana badboy wrote:
Nnivolcm is a boss. That is all.
LionsFTW wrote:
All hail Nnivolcm.

Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
When it comes down to it I think Megatron has just as much leverage as the team does. If he were to un-retire the team would have a $21mil cap hit land on the books when they only have 5 mil in space. They would have little choice but to release or trade him.


Or to cut, restructure, trade, or extend others...


SO you think out of spite the team would cut top players or top players would accept restructures to bring back a guy that doesn't want to be there. I don't.

Trading enough guys to make the cap difference would leave your team in a worst spot and you'd still with a huge cap hit on a guy that doesn't want to be there.

The fact that you'd be committing 12% of your cap on someone that isn't gonna really help your team win is worst business than actually getting something for him in a trade IMO. But we can agree to disagree.


You're making an awful lot of assumptions. I didn't say anything about spite. You assume trading people would leave our roster depleted. You assume he wouldn't help the team win. And finally, you assume we can agree to disagree. I disagree about that. Laughing

My point was that there are lots of ways to work around the cap. You can't say there is little choice but to release or trade him when there are actually several options on the table if he decides to un retire.


So you don't disagree with me haha. That was easy.

But really the only assumption I'm making is that he doesn't want to play for your team. I make that assumption because he RETIRED and left a boatload of cash on the table to get away from you, detailed the reasons he left on multiple occasions and has been flirting with us (for lack of a better phrase) for the last few weeks. If he had a desire to comeback to play for you, he'd be at your OTAs and would be complimenting your QB, who he is friends with still.

Yes, there are several options on the table. You can ask Stafford and Ziggy to restructure their deals. Then Calvin would have to re-affrim that he doesn't want to play for you. That is if they would even agree to that with CJ not planning on suiting up for you. And then you're paying for a guy you'll get nothing from when you could trade him and get value back.

You could trade Marvin Jones and a top tier O or D linemen or some other combo of players but that leaves holes in other places and you still have to deal with Calvin not wanting to play for you and getting no value for that money.

So, like I said, my informed assumption may not point to fewer choices but the smart choice in those scenarios is to get value for someone you weren't counting on and/or can't count on to help you on the field instead of creating holes in the roster to prove a "business point", if you are offended by me calling it spite.


I think it's a dangerous precedent to set to let players strong arm their way out of a contract. Hypothetically, lets say we trade CJ after he says he wants to play again but not for the Lions. Lets also say that Stafford signs a contract extension (like all signs point to happening) and Dak Prescott suffers a sophomore slump he never recovers from. A few years down the line Dallas moves on and is looking for a new franchise QB. Stafford grew up in Texas and decides he wants to play for his home town team, and since the Lions let CJ out of his contract, all he would have to do is threaten to retire and say some unflattering things to the media and he'd be the next QB of his home town team. I don't think that benefits the Lions franchise at all.


Precedent is one thing and taking situations as they come is another.

I think it benefits you more to get value for a player than to rework your cap for a player not intent on contributing regardless of the precedent set.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nagahide13 wrote:
FWIW, the Lions invited Calvin to camp today.


PR move to get the light shining negatively on him. Doubt it works or that he cares.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 11146
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
FWIW, the Lions invited Calvin to camp today.


PR move to get the light shining negatively on him. Doubt it works or that he cares.


Once TC starts and there are actual news stories I doubt anyone cares.
_________________
Montana badboy wrote:
Nnivolcm is a boss. That is all.
LionsFTW wrote:
All hail Nnivolcm.

Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
nagahide13 wrote:
FWIW, the Lions invited Calvin to camp today.


PR move to get the light shining negatively on him. Doubt it works or that he cares.


Once TC starts and there are actual news stories I doubt anyone cares.


We shall see...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrLionzz


Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 546
Location: Sturgis Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get so tired of these Diva players signing contracts then not holding up their end of the agreement. He is tarnishing his legacy and leaving a sour image of himself. Lions fans loved him and adored him and held him in such high regards to the point that most thought of him as the best receiver ever. All this doesn't make me upset it just makes me sad and I wish that he would end this little bashing attempt to get the Lions to release him. No, it ain't gonna happen. Send us Mack and a first round pick then you can have the often injured CJ. And now that I think of it there were most likely games he could have played but sat out because he didn't believe in his team. I believe he faked injuries because his heart was no longer in the D. Well that is a selfish player and that is just sad. If the Lions are to trade him then they better ask for a king's ransom. Now that I look back on the numbers and the impact on games I see Brandon Marshall as having a much better overall career. Just trade him and get him gone and stop this little junior high school scheme to get what you want. I am not saying that they are going to get Mack and a first but if the Raiders truly believe that they are going to win a Superbowl and adding CJ is going to make them unstoppable then they just might do a crazy deal like that. At this point I would take Tate over him due to the fact that Stafford has grown so much more as a QB since CJ left. Time to move onto a new era. I would love it if the Lions met the Raiders with CJ in the Superbowl and destroyed them.
_________________
You Mix it up and I'll drink it, I am the Kool-Aid Man.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 11146
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrLionzz wrote:
I get so tired of these Diva players signing contracts then not holding up their end of the agreement. He is tarnishing his legacy and leaving a sour image of himself. Lions fans loved him and adored him and held him in such high regards to the point that most thought of him as the best receiver ever. All this doesn't make me upset it just makes me sad and I wish that he would end this little bashing attempt to get the Lions to release him. No, it ain't gonna happen. Send us Mack and a first round pick then you can have the often injured CJ. And now that I think of it there were most likely games he could have played but sat out because he didn't believe in his team. I believe he faked injuries because his heart was no longer in the D. Well that is a selfish player and that is just sad. If the Lions are to trade him then they better ask for a king's ransom. Now that I look back on the numbers and the impact on games I see Brandon Marshall as having a much better overall career. Just trade him and get him gone and stop this little junior high school scheme to get what you want. I am not saying that they are going to get Mack and a first but if the Raiders truly believe that they are going to win a Superbowl and adding CJ is going to make them unstoppable then they just might do a crazy deal like that. At this point I would take Tate over him due to the fact that Stafford has grown so much more as a QB since CJ left. Time to move onto a new era. I would love it if the Lions met the Raiders with CJ in the Superbowl and destroyed them.


Wow, the bitterness is strong with this one.

I don't blame a player for retiring mid contract like CJ did. Teams are under no obligation to fulfill contracts themselves and they don't constantly put themselves at risk of bodily harm. CJ's stated reasons for wanting to retire are all valid ones, even that he didn't feel like he could compete with the Lions. If he lost his passion for the game, it's time to step away, regardless of where he is in his contract.

I don't believe for a second that CJ faked injuries, and I can't believe you do either. He was targeted by defenses because of his size and play style. He constantly had people going at his knees and or head. There are pictures out there of his mangled fingers that he played through.
_________________
Montana badboy wrote:
Nnivolcm is a boss. That is all.
LionsFTW wrote:
All hail Nnivolcm.

Team Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 27387
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly does the team owe Calvin? He was a great player for a long time, and got paid accordingly. Say what you will, but - as great as Calvin was - he wasn't a player that could avoid mistakes in pivotal situations to take us to another level. He didn't put this team on his back and carry us to success. He was a great talent, but deserves nothing more than what he was paid during his career.
_________________

Team Stylish

"May my enemies live long so they can see me progress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mikatron!


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 135
Location: Somewhere In SoCal
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
What exactly does the team owe Calvin? He was a great player for a long time, and got paid accordingly. Say what you will, but - as great as Calvin was - he wasn't a player that could avoid mistakes in pivotal situations to take us to another level. He didn't put this team on his back and carry us to success. He was a great talent, but deserves nothing more than what he was paid during his career.


I would have to agree. This story comes out and many out there suggest that the Lions owe Calvin something more than what he was already given (and that he obviously gave back).

Yes, Calvin was a generational talent. Yes, he worked his tail off to win. Yes, the Lions didnt win it all while he was here... on and on.

Most NFL players give there all. Granted, most are not on his level of talent. With that said, he played a GAME for a living making untold millions of dollars to do so. Every professional athlete signs up for the exact same thing, winning. Most dont ever achieve what they set out to do. Calvin is no different.

While the Lions were terrible most of the seasons he was here, I highly doubt that the Front Office, Coaches, Players, Etc. were not trying to do everything they could to win.

Just because it didnt happen as everyone hoped and work toward, doesnt mean that the Lions or any team for that matter NEEDS to accommodate a player and allow the rights they still hold to go else where and WIN.

Calvin could have chosen not to sign all the contracts he did and played elsewhere as a free agent

The fact of the matter is that Calvin retired prior to the end of his contract (his choice of course), and he owes the Lions the remainder of that contract more so than they owe him the opportunity to go to Oakland and "WIN". If that is even how it would shake out.

Not trying to be an ace hole, but he had a CONTRACT in place and still does if he were to return.

The Lions as his employer should do everything they can to ensure the present and future of the team is not compromised under any circumstance, despite what the fans and media think about it.

PS I love Calvin and do understand that he gave his blood, sweat, and tears. I am just a Lions fan more than I am a fan of any one player. I would feel the same about any player and any team if I was a fan of any other team. I felt the same way as a Laker fan when Kobe was threatening to hold out way back in 2003/2004 (I believe?).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Detroit Lions All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group