You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Official Cycling Thread | Vuelta a Espana starts Aug 19
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Other Sports
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're right on both accounts. I did forget Porte, then remembered him, but couldn't be bothered to edit my post Laughing Porte certainly has a shot, but he's like a poor mans Froome. If both are on form theres no way Porte can beat him, imo. It will take a specifically designed course or an injury for Froome to lose in the next couple of years, imo.

Froome can perform those attacks, but other than a couple of stages, he hasn't had to. His best ride this year was undoubtedly getting back to the main group after having the technical on stage 15. That was an amazing ride to get back.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just reading about this years edition of the Vuelta. Rumour had it that Froome, Aru and rested Nibali and Dumoulin will all race it. Froome and Aru will probably have to take stock after the Tour and see if they have the legs. But, those 4 and whoever else woulf make for a great race.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Buc Ball


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 3721
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
kempus wrote:
Buc Ball wrote:
kempus wrote:
It's probably time to start considering Froomes place amongst the cycling greats.. Only one tour win behind Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault and Indurain. Only one yellow jersey day behind Indurain for 3rd most of all time. Does he need to win another GT or is his success at the Tour enough? I expect Froome to have at least 2 or 3 very good years in him left, so who knows how many Tours he will win. I don't see any of the current crop of riders really being able to challenge him.

He's certainly right up there. It's a different era though and Froome isn't as exciting as the likes of Merckx in that he doesn't go on mad attacks and win stages. I don't think that's an indictment of Froome's style, but more a result of the era he's in.

If Bardet can improve his TT and Quintana comes back strong, the GC will be exciting for years to come. I don't think Froome needs to win another grand tour, though a Vuelta or Giro would be great to have on his record. The issue there is that it seems almost impossible to compete in the Giro and Tour in the same season and Sky has such a good group of riders that it becomes difficult to make Froome the focal point for two out of the three grand tours and keep the team together.

I think you're right about how many years at the top he has left. Sky has Thomas, Henao and Kwiatkowski who all look capable of leading a team at a grand tour in the future, so won't be short of options when Froome starts to drop off.

If I was guessing, I'd say he gets another two.


Yeah, I think the lack of attacks is simply because Team.Sky are too good. If he was on a weaker team, or had to chase the tour, I think hes certainly capable of it. I think he will be aiming for a Vuelta to add to the Tour. Perhaps this year.

Kwiatkowski has the potential to be a GC rider. Not sure on Henao or Thomas. I don't think Thomas is good enough in the mountains, he keeps getting unlucky with crashes, so we still aren't really sure at the moment.

I don't think Bardet can improve his TT enough to compete with Froome. That was also the best race Uran will ever race, imo. Quintana needs to take a long rest and try to find his form again. Dumoulin is also an interesting candidate, but I'm not sure he can live in the high mountains. For Froome to lose, the French are going to have to design a tour with almost zero time trialing and about 6-8 mountain top finishes. Only way I see him losing to the current crop of riders.


I may be wrong but didn't Froome have some insane mountain attacks in 2013 and 2015 that led to talk and scrutinty about doping? Enough so that he actually released riding data and personal fitness data to quash the rumors.

And I certainly am no expert, as I really don't pay attention to cycling all that much, but all I heard coming in this year was that Porte is ready to unseat Froome. I know with the crash, that killed this year, but I don't see why he then wouldn't be a strong contender next year. Is there something I'm missing or did you just forget him with an out of sight our of mind thing?

Yeah, after Mont Ventoux in 2013 everyone was accusing Froome of doping. The data didn't do much to put those rumours to bed in the media, but the UCI and the anti doping guys were happy that Froome's training data since he joined Sky was realistic and didn't indicate doping.

People forget that Froome had a blood condition that really affected his performance until he found out he had it and got it treated. After that his career took off, but since he'd been a pro for years and had kinda come from nowhere, people were quick to say it must have been doping.

Yeah, we both forgot about Porte Laughing He is in great form and can TT. I just wonder whether he has the team around him to beat Sky over 3 weeks. Porte v Froome at next year's Tour would be great viewing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kyle21121


Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 11002
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright Froome has won and it does seem like the time to evaluate his place in history and his competitors moving forward.

So Froome will win Tour #4 in a 5 year period he crashed out early on the year Nibali won so whose to say about 5/5 which only Indurian has accomplished to this date. IIRC he was struggling and had multiple crashes that year but regardless we don't know. In the other four tours for about 98% of the race he has been absolutely dominant even back when he finished second to his teammate Wiggins. I think winning a 5th tour to join that club will be important to him and how he is judged but I have no doubt he will be viewed as the best of his generation either way but in terms of overall and again just like any other sport comparing generations is extremely tough and you have no real gage like comparing Shaq to Wilt as an example. So I think he's the best of his generation and no one will disagree I think if he gets #5 and joins that list that's enough I don't know if he will ever be considered the best ever because of how the sport is now. Sure he may be as dominant or even more dominant than some but was never down multiple minutes and attacked a stage by himself and gained time back. Sky is viewed as a machine and it's not like say Le Vie Claire wasn't but this is a a more sustained team that has been built for success for a number of years. A different Grand Tour win may also help him quite a bit but he belongs in that group regardless.

Now let's take some stock into who could be next:

Bardet - The young Frenchman is a very talented climber and noted as one of about 30 different riders the announcers have called France's next great hope over the last decade but he appears to sticking with multiple podium finishes in the tour (unless of course Landa has something up his sleeve today) the biggest problem is his TT. You basically need to be the best climber and be able to attack multiple times and build a big enough lead in order to win the tour as a below average TT. Even if he can work on this and become average it's still quite the task.

Uran - At this point in time I can't see him ever riding a better tour than this. He should still be a reasonable contender and challenge for top 5-10 finishes in the future.

Aru - Great Climber was doing really well the first two weeks but fell off in the final week I think the announcers noted he was dealing with something that caused him to not keep pace and ride to his abilities he has won the Giro before he's capable of winning a grand tour still could improve his TT.

Quintana - He has won both other grand tours and has finished 2 in the tour multiple times he took a risk and decided to run the Giro this year prior to the tour which may have been a mistake. He was off all tour but reasonably he should be back and still be a contender.

Contador - I imagine he's done.

Valverde - How much longer does he have? A devastating crash took him out this year in which I thought he could contend. Will he be a factor next year?

Porte - Former Froome teammate many thought including myself he would be the biggest contender to Froome this year.

Dan Martin - He was a bit of a surprise but for the most part he looked very good minus what may have been just bad luck. Another guy who needs to improve his TT.

Barguil - Super impressive this whole tour he certainly looks like he could be right back in the GC contention for years to come.

Nibali - Last person other than Froome to win the tour. Would love to see him in the race next year but he can pick and choose what he wants and he may not have quite the same team support should be a big rival and contend.

Dumoulin - Tons of hype and just won the Giro a great young all rounder.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
kyle21121


Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 11002
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of those 11 guys I'm mentioned I'd put money on Porte or Dumoulin being his biggest competition next year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyle21121 wrote:
Out of those 11 guys I'm mentioned I'd put money on Porte or Dumoulin being his biggest competition next year.


I agree with you on those two. But, I really think it comes down to what kind of race the organizers come up with. I would assume there will be a hell of a lot of mountains next year as thats the only real way Bardet or Barguil could win it. Dumoulin would likely struggle with that set up. Porte will be there, though. However, as I said, hes a poor mans Chris Froome. Anything Porte does, Froome does it better.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, the amount of TT in this years race was already incredibly low. Not sure they can really have much less. They can certainly have more mountain top finishes, though. It was a pretty weird course this year, to be honest. Not a lot of Mountain finishes and not a lot of TT. Lots of sprint stages.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mse326


Moderator
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 18142
Location: mike23md on the sig
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
I was just reading about this years edition of the Vuelta. Rumour had it that Froome, Aru and rested Nibali and Dumoulin will all race it. Froome and Aru will probably have to take stock after the Tour and see if they have the legs. But, those 4 and whoever else woulf make for a great race.


What are the differences between the TDF, Vuelta, and Giro that make different people better at one than the others. I know some of it is about which race the focus on because of thier time proximity, but in terms of the structure of it. Like why is Froome so dominant in the TDF but hasn't won a Vuelta?
_________________

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
kempus wrote:
I was just reading about this years edition of the Vuelta. Rumour had it that Froome, Aru and rested Nibali and Dumoulin will all race it. Froome and Aru will probably have to take stock after the Tour and see if they have the legs. But, those 4 and whoever else woulf make for a great race.


What are the differences between the TDF, Vuelta, and Giro that make different people better at one than the others. I know some of it is about which race the focus on because of thier time proximity, but in terms of the structure of it. Like why is Froome so dominant in the TDF but hasn't won a Vuelta?


It's because Froome has pretty much always focused on the TDF. If he set his season goals as the Giro and Vuelta. I'm almost certain he would win at least one of them, if not both. The Tour is so much more prestigious than any other multi day event. It also takes a hell of a lot out of the cyclists. The Giro and Vuelta also try to go insane with how difficult they make their races, because they know they have to make it hard for people to tune in and watch.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mse326


Moderator
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 18142
Location: mike23md on the sig
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
mse326 wrote:
kempus wrote:
I was just reading about this years edition of the Vuelta. Rumour had it that Froome, Aru and rested Nibali and Dumoulin will all race it. Froome and Aru will probably have to take stock after the Tour and see if they have the legs. But, those 4 and whoever else woulf make for a great race.


What are the differences between the TDF, Vuelta, and Giro that make different people better at one than the others. I know some of it is about which race the focus on because of thier time proximity, but in terms of the structure of it. Like why is Froome so dominant in the TDF but hasn't won a Vuelta?


It's because Froome has pretty much always focused on the TDF. If he set his season goals as the Giro and Vuelta. I'm almost certain he would win at least one of them, if not both. The Tour is so much more prestigious than any other multi day event. It also takes a hell of a lot out of the cyclists. The Giro and Vuelta also try to go insane with how difficult they make their races, because they know they have to make it hard for people to tune in and watch.


So is it even realistic anymore to win the Giro and TDF or the TDF and Vuelta in the same year? Or is the only chance at 2 grand tours anymore the Giro and Vuelta while skipping the TDF all together?
_________________

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
kempus wrote:
mse326 wrote:
kempus wrote:
I was just reading about this years edition of the Vuelta. Rumour had it that Froome, Aru and rested Nibali and Dumoulin will all race it. Froome and Aru will probably have to take stock after the Tour and see if they have the legs. But, those 4 and whoever else woulf make for a great race.


What are the differences between the TDF, Vuelta, and Giro that make different people better at one than the others. I know some of it is about which race the focus on because of thier time proximity, but in terms of the structure of it. Like why is Froome so dominant in the TDF but hasn't won a Vuelta?


It's because Froome has pretty much always focused on the TDF. If he set his season goals as the Giro and Vuelta. I'm almost certain he would win at least one of them, if not both. The Tour is so much more prestigious than any other multi day event. It also takes a hell of a lot out of the cyclists. The Giro and Vuelta also try to go insane with how difficult they make their races, because they know they have to make it hard for people to tune in and watch.


So is it even realistic anymore to win the Giro and TDF or the TDF and Vuelta in the same year? Or is the only chance at 2 grand tours anymore the Giro and Vuelta while skipping the TDF all together?


Giro and TDF is essentially impossible nowadays. TDF and Vuelta may be possible, but again it's incredibly difficult because of the strain that the Tour takes. We will see this year because Froome is almost certainly riding it. We will also see if a Giro Vuelta double is possible as Dumoulin is rumoured to be riding it.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kyle21121


Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 11002
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
kyle21121 wrote:
Out of those 11 guys I'm mentioned I'd put money on Porte or Dumoulin being his biggest competition next year.


I agree with you on those two. But, I really think it comes down to what kind of race the organizers come up with. I would assume there will be a hell of a lot of mountains next year as thats the only real way Bardet or Barguil could win it. Dumoulin would likely struggle with that set up. Porte will be there, though. However, as I said, hes a poor mans Chris Froome. Anything Porte does, Froome does it better.


I agree with all these points. Froome would be favoured and I would definitely expect him to win it again next year regardless of the setup. I just want to see more riders have a focus on the tour next year and make it more difficult.

So Froome in Spain seems to be confirmed. He's finished 2nd multiple times I think he could win it and yea TDF and VES is doable While Giro and TDF isn't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
kempus


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 17412
Location: An economy based on endless growth is, UNSUSTAINABLE!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One interesting theory that I've been thinking about, with regards to Froomes Vuelta chances are as follows; Froome has had a pretty poor sesason as a whole, apart from the TDF, of course. He looked vunerable in the build up races to the TDF, which in previous seasons he has always looked great in. Now, this could simply be because he isn't in form this season or it could be for another reason. Froome is a notoriously hard trainer, he's also gone on record saying he would love to win the Vuelta. In previous sesasons he hasn't had enough left in the tank to win the Vuelta, after his efforts earlier in the season. I'm wondering if he trained lighter this season in the hopes of keeping form and energy in reserve for the Vuelta. This would provide an explanation as to why he wasn't so good in the early season races, he simply wasn't in shape. Of course, this is purely me speculating, but it's certainly a reasonable theory. If true, Froome could be set up for a very good Vuelta.

Also, it would be great if the thread creator or one of the mods could change this to the Official Cycling thread. Seems unnecessary to make a new thread for each GT or piece of news.
_________________


Winner of the Soccer Forum Legend Award
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kyle21121


Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 11002
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll update the thread title. You gotta get on the new forums and I'll cede control over to you on that thread. It definitely makes sense to have it this way I'm just never sure of the popularity of the sport and consider The Tour as something that would bring out more people. I follow year round mainly in the Giro-Tour-Vuelta portion of the schedule but will watch like the tour down under when the season kicks off in January.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Other Sports All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Page 6 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group