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Carr VS Mariota
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Carr vs Mariota
Carr
72%
 72%  [ 40 ]
Mariota
27%
 27%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 55

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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 22849
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daineraider wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
Breesus mode wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
To be fair including Carr's actual rookie season would drop those numbers by a fair amount. Comparing early years though between someone who played as a rookie and those who didn't kind of complicates comparisons a bit. I'm personally of the belief that a year on the bench is usually better or at least as good in terms of long-term development than throwing a QB out on day one though.

The results for starting vs not starting are pretty mixed IIRC


Yeah, and there's a lot of factors that can really affect that including things like how different the offensive system is compared to what they did in college. Guess the point I was mostly trying to stick with though is that in terms of the stat sheet it's hard to compare a non-rookie first year starting season to a true rookie season. In Carr's case especially his 2nd/3rd seasons are fairly close statistically while 1st season to 2nd is a pretty huge jump.


I am surprised you didn't bring up these two important points:

1. Carr supporting cast has been miles better than what Brady had in his early years. Carr has the best cast in the league.

2. QBs these days are overall putting up better numbers than years past and young QBs are in a more pass friendly league to what somebody like Brady faced.

Therefore Comparing Carr to Brady is just disingenuous.


I think Carr is a good QB but slow down people


He used era adjusted metrics to show that there isn't a large discrepancy over their first 3 years statistically. All of this was more to show that quarterbacks aren't who they are until they have time to develop over 4-5 years.

No one is suggesting he'll be Brady, or that he hasn't had weapons over the last 2 years.

Carr only had this cast this year as well. The year before, it was good. The year before that, it was bottom of the league.


There always seems to be this thing where like, once a player is a consensus HoF guy, let alone potential GOAT caliber, that it starts to become blasphemous to compare any younger player to them in any way, even if it's just comparing some subset of seasons or a single trait or something, and I really object to that concept. There are young QBs who have had seasons as good as or better than what Brady had early in his career. You can say this without implying that they're going to have a better career than Brady or whatever.

But also I just find the accusation that era wasn't considered to be funny when adjusting for era was the entire point of the discussion that was being responded to.


Ok so what is the point of the comparison? Like what was the purpose of putting their numbers side by side. I mean wasn't it too long ago Raiders fans were comparing him to A-rod.


No... Several NFL players and media guys made the comparison. And people said his release was similar to Rodgers, but yes, that must mean we all think he is just as good if not better than Rodgers.

The point of the comparison is to see who his first 3 years compare to. Lots of people saying Carr isn't a franchise QB and so you show comparisons of how ridiculous that is. Its not to say that Carr is Brady or Rodgers(nobody is doing that, but your reading comprehension isn't top knotch based on this thread). He has played 3 years and has a ton of work to do to be considering even close to their level, but it's interesting to see what his first several years look like compared to the best in the game.


The comparison is bogus. People comparing him to Rodgers are doing so to make themselves feel better about Carr. If I we were to say he is more like Cutler people would laugh at that because Cutler isn't really good. His skillset compares more favourably to that of Cutler but because just like you're accusing me of saying he is gonna be Rodgers, you would accuse me of saying he would be Cutler or rather you wouldn't take that comparison seriously because it'd be viewed at negatively.

Also who is saying Carr isn't s franchise QB. My reading comprehension is fine. Maybe you're reading comprehension isn't "top notch" because I never accused you of saying he is gonna be Brady. I'm questioning this whole comparison. Comparing statistics from the first 3 years is pointless because you can do it with anybody and it means nothing.
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daineraider


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6969
Location: Salt Lake City
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
daineraider wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
Breesus mode wrote:
Bobikus wrote:
To be fair including Carr's actual rookie season would drop those numbers by a fair amount. Comparing early years though between someone who played as a rookie and those who didn't kind of complicates comparisons a bit. I'm personally of the belief that a year on the bench is usually better or at least as good in terms of long-term development than throwing a QB out on day one though.

The results for starting vs not starting are pretty mixed IIRC


Yeah, and there's a lot of factors that can really affect that including things like how different the offensive system is compared to what they did in college. Guess the point I was mostly trying to stick with though is that in terms of the stat sheet it's hard to compare a non-rookie first year starting season to a true rookie season. In Carr's case especially his 2nd/3rd seasons are fairly close statistically while 1st season to 2nd is a pretty huge jump.


I am surprised you didn't bring up these two important points:

1. Carr supporting cast has been miles better than what Brady had in his early years. Carr has the best cast in the league.

2. QBs these days are overall putting up better numbers than years past and young QBs are in a more pass friendly league to what somebody like Brady faced.

Therefore Comparing Carr to Brady is just disingenuous.


I think Carr is a good QB but slow down people


He used era adjusted metrics to show that there isn't a large discrepancy over their first 3 years statistically. All of this was more to show that quarterbacks aren't who they are until they have time to develop over 4-5 years.

No one is suggesting he'll be Brady, or that he hasn't had weapons over the last 2 years.

Carr only had this cast this year as well. The year before, it was good. The year before that, it was bottom of the league.


There always seems to be this thing where like, once a player is a consensus HoF guy, let alone potential GOAT caliber, that it starts to become blasphemous to compare any younger player to them in any way, even if it's just comparing some subset of seasons or a single trait or something, and I really object to that concept. There are young QBs who have had seasons as good as or better than what Brady had early in his career. You can say this without implying that they're going to have a better career than Brady or whatever.

But also I just find the accusation that era wasn't considered to be funny when adjusting for era was the entire point of the discussion that was being responded to.


Ok so what is the point of the comparison? Like what was the purpose of putting their numbers side by side. I mean wasn't it too long ago Raiders fans were comparing him to A-rod.


No... Several NFL players and media guys made the comparison. And people said his release was similar to Rodgers, but yes, that must mean we all think he is just as good if not better than Rodgers.

The point of the comparison is to see who his first 3 years compare to. Lots of people saying Carr isn't a franchise QB and so you show comparisons of how ridiculous that is. Its not to say that Carr is Brady or Rodgers(nobody is doing that, but your reading comprehension isn't top knotch based on this thread). He has played 3 years and has a ton of work to do to be considering even close to their level, but it's interesting to see what his first several years look like compared to the best in the game.


The comparison is bogus. People comparing him to Rodgers are doing so to make themselves feel better about Carr. If I we were to say he is more like Cutler people would laugh at that because Cutler isn't really good. His skillset compares more favourably to that of Cutler but because just like you're accusing me of saying he is gonna be Rodgers, you would accuse me of saying he would be Cutler or rather you wouldn't take that comparison seriously because it'd be viewed at negatively.

Also who is saying Carr isn't s franchise QB. My reading comprehension is fine. Maybe you're reading comprehension isn't "top notch" because I never accused you of saying he is gonna be Brady. I'm questioning this whole comparison. Comparing statistics from the first 3 years is pointless because you can do it with anybody and it means nothing.


Who on here is comparing Carr to Rodgers? Not saying it hasn't happened, but most Raider fans in here are more rational than that. Just like nobody is comparing him to Brady, but merely looking at similarities in their stats.

You're more than welcome to compare Carr to Cutler, but I'm not sure thats anymore accurate than Carr to Rodgers(trait wise not overall talent wise). But if you have watched enough of Carr you would see the difference in leadership, demeanor, and overall drive to win games. Carr, Mariota, Winston etc are the future stars, imo, at the position. Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben Brees, Rivers, Eli etc will start to retire here in the next few years so it's just a preview at the position going forward.

Carr may or may not turn into the next Rodgers at the position, but that doesn't mean you cant look at #s that compare with the player. We have all ackowledged that he has a long way to go to be considered anywhere near that level of QB, so I'm not really sure what you are arguing against. I was merely pointing out similarities in stats, which is one small part of a comparison.
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El ramster


Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the entire Carr era, the Raiders have a 2-16 record against playoff teams, with both wins coming against Brock Osweiler.

MARIOTTA.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

El ramster wrote:
In the entire Carr era, the Raiders have a 2-16 record against playoff teams, with both wins coming against Brock Osweiler.

MARIOTTA.


/Thread.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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childofpudding


Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 919
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daineraider wrote:
Just like nobody is comparing him to Brady, but merely looking at similarities in their stats.

uhh

(comparisons are fine with me, btw)
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daineraider


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6969
Location: Salt Lake City
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

childofpudding wrote:
daineraider wrote:
Just like nobody is comparing him to Brady, but merely looking at similarities in their stats.

uhh

(comparisons are fine with me, btw)


Im not comparing Carr to Brady as a player/talent wise/career wise etc. Comparing stats isnt the same thing as comparing them as players.
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
El ramster wrote:
In the entire Carr era, the Raiders have a 2-16 record against playoff teams, with both wins coming against Brock Osweiler.

MARIOTTA.


/Thread.


This is false the also beat the chiefs Carrs rookie year.
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"They don't have to worry about him making consistent passes. They will win another 2-3 max with him at QB."
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SilverNBlackFan


Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 7946
Location: R.I.P Al Davis 1929-2011
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
El ramster wrote:
In the entire Carr era, the Raiders have a 2-16 record against playoff teams, with both wins coming against Brock Osweiler.

MARIOTTA.


/Thread.


This is false the also beat the chiefs Carrs rookie year.


The Chiefs weren't a playoff team that year. The stat doesn't prove anything, although I will admit Carr does need to prove he can play great against the big boy defenses, especially those in our own division. He has flat out been mediocre against Den/KC. I realize those defenses do that to pretty much everyone, but I can't put Carr in that upper echelon until he proves that he's match-up proof. They make him look like doodoo.


I like Mariota. I think he's the real deal and I was dead wrong on him as a prospect. (I thought he was a better, more athletic Alex Smith Embarassed ). But for now, I take Carr and Winston over him.
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