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Kirk Cousins...No Long Term Deal...Discuss
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Slateman


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 10353
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/07/16/with-contract-deadline-looming-kirk-cousins-appears-set-to-play-season-on-franchise-tag-again/?utm_term=.b8e0c76f6a2e

Quote:
Itís believed that to have a chance of signing Cousins, the Redskins would have to offer him a deal with an annual salary of around $28 million and roughly $52 million to $58 million guaranteed at signing and another $30 million to $35 million for the remaining three years.

But the Redskins havenít been willing to make that kind of a commitment. And there are some around the league that believe Cousins never planned to sign a multiyear deal with Washington this offseason regardless of the offer. The quarterback has said that he just wants to sign with a team that truly wants him, but he also has told others that he would like to test free agency to better gauge his worth and his options.



$28M AAV and up to $93M guaranteed? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Call me crazy but I'd do it. He's very likely to play out the entire contract he signs, whether it's guaranteed or not.


I'd do it too. That guaranteed is only 4m more than Luck's. And we can always renegotiate in the last 2 years with him to spread things out further.

And given that Ryan, Rodgers, Stafford, et al will be doing new contracts in the next two years, this will quickly be eclipsed.
The way I see it the guaranteed $ is irrelevant when you're talking about a good or great player. Almost every good/great player plays out their entire contract or as you said gets extended/renegotiated. The only player I can't remember playing out his whole contract in D.C. lately that was good or should have been was Haynesworth.
Its a full contact sport. Guaranteed money is extremely relevant.


Not at the quarterback position. Or who is it you think the Skins can sign with the money saved from not giving it all guaranteed that could compensate for Cousins not starting?
I don't understand your question? If we give Cousins $80 mil in guaranteed money and he goes and blows out his knee this year we would be in trouble. Its a full contact sport where players can get seriously injured.


If we gave him 20mil in guaranteed money, would the team still be in trouble? More? Less? The same?
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19354
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/07/16/with-contract-deadline-looming-kirk-cousins-appears-set-to-play-season-on-franchise-tag-again/?utm_term=.b8e0c76f6a2e

Quote:
Itís believed that to have a chance of signing Cousins, the Redskins would have to offer him a deal with an annual salary of around $28 million and roughly $52 million to $58 million guaranteed at signing and another $30 million to $35 million for the remaining three years.

But the Redskins havenít been willing to make that kind of a commitment. And there are some around the league that believe Cousins never planned to sign a multiyear deal with Washington this offseason regardless of the offer. The quarterback has said that he just wants to sign with a team that truly wants him, but he also has told others that he would like to test free agency to better gauge his worth and his options.



$28M AAV and up to $93M guaranteed? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Call me crazy but I'd do it. He's very likely to play out the entire contract he signs, whether it's guaranteed or not.


I'd do it too. That guaranteed is only 4m more than Luck's. And we can always renegotiate in the last 2 years with him to spread things out further.

And given that Ryan, Rodgers, Stafford, et al will be doing new contracts in the next two years, this will quickly be eclipsed.
The way I see it the guaranteed $ is irrelevant when you're talking about a good or great player. Almost every good/great player plays out their entire contract or as you said gets extended/renegotiated. The only player I can't remember playing out his whole contract in D.C. lately that was good or should have been was Haynesworth.
Its a full contact sport. Guaranteed money is extremely relevant.


Not at the quarterback position. Or who is it you think the Skins can sign with the money saved from not giving it all guaranteed that could compensate for Cousins not starting?
I don't understand your question? If we give Cousins $80 mil in guaranteed money and he goes and blows out his knee this year we would be in trouble. Its a full contact sport where players can get seriously injured.


If we gave him 20mil in guaranteed money, would the team still be in trouble? More? Less? The same?
I still don't get what you're asking? I mean we're giving him more than 20 mil guaranteed this year. We gave him around $20 mil guaranteed last year.

If we remove Cousins from the roster next year and have $20 mil in cap space that's not really going to solve our QB problem. Starting QBs don't hit free agency. So we will be in limbo until we can find another starting caliber QB in the draft. Our team has been very poor in drafting and developing QBs, and I have absolutely no faith in the current front office we have to draft a new quality QB.
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Bruce Allen is a snake and should be fired.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MosEisley wrote:
I've been a Redskin fan since 1979, but I feel conflicted. I don't know how I feel about pulling for a guy that doesn't want to be there. Confused
This is why what Bruce Allen has does is so foolish. If Cousins walks next year (which he's practically guaranteed to do now), we would have been better off trading him for whatever we could have gotten and tanking this season for a high draft pick next year to get our next QB. Also, we probably should have drafted a mid round QB this year.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly my point. The guaranteed money is irrelevant. He's not a receiver, or a linebacker. He cannot be replaced otlr schemed. So whether is contract is fully guaranteed or not, his loss cripples the team.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
That's exactly my point. The guaranteed money is irrelevant. He's not a receiver, or a linebacker. He cannot be replaced otlr schemed. So whether is contract is fully guaranteed or not, his loss cripples the team.
I get what you're saying but the team does have to protect itself from major injury, significant decline in play, etc. in future years. There should have been a reasonable middle ground on the guaranteed money between the team and what Cousins wanted.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
https://twitter.com/JPFinlayCSN/status/887040202128195584

Man, Bruce getting the bus warmed up early this year.


Completely idiotic move by Bruce.

This guarantees he never signs with us.

At least I wouldn't after this blatant attempt to turn the fanbase against me (if I'm Kirk).
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
https://twitter.com/JPFinlayCSN/status/887040202128195584

Man, Bruce getting the bus warmed up early this year.


Completely idiotic move by Bruce.

This guarantees he never signs with us.

At least I wouldn't after this blatant attempt to turn the fanbase against me (if I'm Kirk).
This is what Bruce Allen does. When he someone doesn't do what he wants he engages the public smear campaign.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I can't decide if we should be rooting for Kirk to struggle this season or not.

Short Term Outcome - the team will struggle and we will have a miserable season

Long Term Outcome - the FA market dries up a bit and we have a better chance of retaining him for the price we're willing to pay
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
That's exactly my point. The guaranteed money is irrelevant. He's not a receiver, or a linebacker. He cannot be replaced otlr schemed. So whether is contract is fully guaranteed or not, his loss cripples the team.
I get what you're saying but the team does have to protect itself from major injury, significant decline in play, etc. in future years. There should have been a reasonable middle ground on the guaranteed money between the team and what Cousins wanted.


The Redskins left reasonable a long time ago, in regards to Cousins.

He watched as Griffin got chance after chance to start. Despite it being obvious who the better QB was.

He watched as Griffin got treated like a favored son by the owner, getting wined and dined. Getting to use the owner's private jet on his honeymoon. Getting to get his dad on the sidelines.

He watched as that Griffin got the head coach and offensive coordinator who believed in him fired. Then he watched as management embaressed the GM who believed in him And then fired him.

Can't imagine why he wouldn't want to stay with the Redskins.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
mar29020 wrote:
its 100% the Redskins fault. why would this situation make any other qb want to be here?


He's a fourth round pick who was given the starting job over the second overall pick in the draft that the franchise traded a surplus of picks for. They've given him an OL, a plethora of weapons and an offensive minded coach. He's now been given $44M in two years time and he still feels slighted? Give me a break.


That 44m was because they had nothing better besides him.

It wasn't a "we love you so here's 44m".

It was "I guess we'll have to tag you because we have no other option"

I heard it put this way.

Say you are the assistant supervisor to a supervisor. You watch the supervisor gets accolades from the company. The owner fawns all over him. He gets paid quite a bit of money too. And everyone kisses his butt to the point where the owner intervened with the District Manager to put him in the office when he clearly couldn't do his job. He even got the previous District manager fired by cozying up to the owner.

Yet, he can't perform at his job.

Meanwhile, you know you can do it better.

So when they finally get rid of the supervisor and you get promoted. Where are the accolades? Where is the fawning from the owner? Where is the pay raise commensurate with the position and how well you're performing it (which is breaking performance records at the company)?

If you were that asst. supervisor, would you stay with the company? Or would you bide your time and when the headhunter calls you when your contract is up and says "I have a great opportunity for you. Plenty of long term money. A long term contract and the company loves you". Which would you go with?
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
So, I can't decide if we should be rooting for Kirk to struggle this season or not.

Short Term Outcome - the team will struggle and we will have a miserable season

Long Term Outcome - the FA market dries up a bit and we have a better chance of retaining him for the price we're willing to pay


If he struggles, this is a likely outcome.

Of course, if we go 11 wins and to the NFCC game we have a good chance of keeping him.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
So, I can't decide if we should be rooting for Kirk to struggle this season or not.

Short Term Outcome - the team will struggle and we will have a miserable season

Long Term Outcome - the FA market dries up a bit and we have a better chance of retaining him for the price we're willing to pay


If he struggles, this is a likely outcome.

Of course, if we go 11 wins and to the NFCC game we have a good chance of keeping him.


People keep saying this, but I actually think the better we do this season, the worse our chances are of keeping him.

It only increases his leverage and makes him a more attractive FA target. It doesn't make him love Dan or Bruce any more. He already loves Gruden and his fellow players. Winning more won't change how he feels about the organization as its currently constructed, especially with this statement Allen just put out.
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Last edited by HTTRG3Dynasty on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
So, I can't decide if we should be rooting for Kirk to struggle this season or not.

Short Term Outcome - the team will struggle and we will have a miserable season

Long Term Outcome - the FA market dries up a bit and we have a better chance of retaining him for the price we're willing to pay
I think we have a better chance of retaining him if he and the team perform really well. He'll have a lot of pressure to stay from his teammates and coaching staff and he'll see that he has success in this system. If he struggles I think he and the FO will probably its time for a change.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
So, I can't decide if we should be rooting for Kirk to struggle this season or not.

Short Term Outcome - the team will struggle and we will have a miserable season

Long Term Outcome - the FA market dries up a bit and we have a better chance of retaining him for the price we're willing to pay


If he struggles, this is a likely outcome.

Of course, if we go 11 wins and to the NFCC game we have a good chance of keeping him.


People keep saying this, but I actually think the better we do this season, the worse our chances are of keeping him.

It only increases his leverage and makes him a more attractive FA target. It doesn't make him love Dan or Bruce any more. He already loves Gruden and his fellow players. Winning more won't change how he feels about the organization as its currently constructed, especially with this statement Allen just put out.
Eh, I'm not going to root for the Redskins to lose in order to keep Kirk Cousins. I hope we either do really well or completely bomb. Another 8-8 season would be worst case IMO.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
So, I can't decide if we should be rooting for Kirk to struggle this season or not.

Short Term Outcome - the team will struggle and we will have a miserable season

Long Term Outcome - the FA market dries up a bit and we have a better chance of retaining him for the price we're willing to pay
I think we have a better chance of retaining him if he and the team perform really well. He'll have a lot of pressure to stay from his teammates and coaching staff and he'll see that he has success in this system. If he struggles I think he and the FO will probably its time for a change.


Team camaraderie is all well and good. But it's not going to change his opinion of our FO and all the sleights they've sent his way.
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