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2017 Offseason thread 2: Shanny and Lynch
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Could the Redskins tag and then trade Cousins? If so, would the team trading for him be on hook for the huge franchise tag number or they could negotiate a long term deal? If not, the Redskins are going to lose him for pretty much nothing?


Yes, they could tag and trade. The only requirement i thought was something like the guaranteed money on the new deal can't be less overall than the guarantee on the tag. Or something like that. Wouldn't be an issue for Cousins. Also, he needs to habe signed the tender, of course.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Could the Redskins tag and then trade Cousins? If so, would the team trading for him be on hook for the huge franchise tag number or they could negotiate a long term deal? If not, the Redskins are going to lose him for pretty much nothing?


Yes, they could tag and trade. The only requirement i thought was something like the guaranteed money on the new deal can't be less overall than the guarantee on the tag. Or something like that. Wouldn't be an issue for Cousins. Also, he needs to habe signed the tender, of course.


Good, so we won't be on the hook for 33+ million or whatever the number will be?

So what will it take to get him? I can't imagine a 1st rounder? Maybe one our 2nds?
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Forge


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Could the Redskins tag and then trade Cousins? If so, would the team trading for him be on hook for the huge franchise tag number or they could negotiate a long term deal? If not, the Redskins are going to lose him for pretty much nothing?


Yes, they could tag and trade. The only requirement i thought was something like the guaranteed money on the new deal can't be less overall than the guarantee on the tag. Or something like that. Wouldn't be an issue for Cousins. Also, he needs to habe signed the tender, of course.


Good, so we won't be on the hook for 33+ million or whatever the number will be?

So what will it take to get him? I can't imagine a 1st rounder? Maybe one our 2nds?


Only if we didn't work out a deal with him. Of course, if Washington transition tags him, we are going to have to front load the hell out of our offer since you can't poison pill contracts anymore to make it unlikely they can match. In that case, I wouldn't be surprised by a first year hit in that 35-40 range.

As for the cost.. really depends on Snyder and how Washington feels about the situation. If snyder really loathes shanahan that much, and is that desperate to keep Cousins from us, then it just won't matter. Cousins saying he's open to a long term deal after the season may help them think they really have a shot to get him and decide to franchise or transition tag him and work on a long term deal to the very end.
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

non-49ers news but Carolina just parted ways with Gettleman
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
non-49ers news but Carolina just parted ways with Gettleman


Interesting timing. Maybe going after Dorsey?
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
non-49ers news but Carolina just parted ways with Gettleman
.l

As far as speculation goes about with that firing it's thought to be because of his handling of aging veterans on the team, such Deangelo Williams, Steve Smith and even Josh Norman and now his disagreeing with having to pay Olsen. Interesting timing though for sure, I thought there was an in house guy there who was a hot name?

With Kirk reportedly turning down an offer of 53 million guranteed in May and not even offering a return offer I'd say he wants to get the hell out of dodge. I can only assume that Allen will make that split as messy as possible just to inconvenience anyone who wants Kirks services, likely us. If they tag him again that's north of 34 million and he'd have to sign it in order for the trade scenario to happen. In which case it would probably cost us a 1st and more. The transition tag they could use as someone stated could easily be out priced as we would front load the hell out of it since we have the cap room and they don't. If they franchise tag him and he doesn't sign it and play, holds out an entire year which I don't see likely but this is already a cluster of situation, they could screw themselves out of any sort of return other than a comp. 3rd I think. Maybe they try and trade him now to get full value on a return, seems like if they don't they may have screwed themselves.
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48 1/2ers


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much money carries over into next year? I saw something like $66m, if thats the case then why would we trade for Cousins, just offer him the biggest contract and he'll sign then keep all our other draft capital, maybe even sell our top 5 pick to the highest bidder and walk away with a franchise QB and insane draft capital.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
How much money carries over into next year? I saw something like $66m, if thats the case then why would we trade for Cousins, just offer him the biggest contract and he'll sign then keep all our other draft capital, maybe even sell our top 5 pick to the highest bidder and walk away with a franchise QB and insane draft capital.


I thought I read something that said we'll have somewhere close to 70 mil going into next year. Trading for him now would ensure acquiring Cousins as well as bypassing all the headache the Redskins could put us through next offseason if they franchise tagged him again. If it's a transistion tag than yea, we could just outbid for him.

I agree with ya though, I'd like us to retain all draft capital and acquire Cousins for sure.
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoyer on ESPN First Take. Very humble guy. I hope he has a great year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evop4gcfvrA

Didn't know he was a Cavs fan. Too bad. Very Happy
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Geek


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
How much money carries over into next year? I saw something like $66m, if thats the case then why would we trade for Cousins, just offer him the biggest contract and he'll sign then keep all our other draft capital, maybe even sell our top 5 pick to the highest bidder and walk away with a franchise QB and insane draft capital.


I thought I read something that said we'll have somewhere close to 70 mil going into next year. Trading for him now would ensure acquiring Cousins as well as bypassing all the headache the Redskins could put us through next offseason if they franchise tagged him again. If it's a transition tag than yea, we could just outbid for him.

I agree with ya though, I'd like us to retain all draft capital and acquire Cousins for sure.


Could the skins afford to do this again? Wouldn't the tag be up around 35 million? Do they have the space to try that? Regardless, I think we should stand pat and wait till next year to acquire him unless there is a really good trade deal available.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geek wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
How much money carries over into next year? I saw something like $66m, if thats the case then why would we trade for Cousins, just offer him the biggest contract and he'll sign then keep all our other draft capital, maybe even sell our top 5 pick to the highest bidder and walk away with a franchise QB and insane draft capital.


I thought I read something that said we'll have somewhere close to 70 mil going into next year. Trading for him now would ensure acquiring Cousins as well as bypassing all the headache the Redskins could put us through next offseason if they franchise tagged him again. If it's a transition tag than yea, we could just outbid for him.

I agree with ya though, I'd like us to retain all draft capital and acquire Cousins for sure.


Could the skins afford to do this again? Wouldn't the tag be up around 35 million? Do they have the space to try that? Regardless, I think we should stand pat and wait till next year to acquire him unless there is a really good trade deal available.


Technically, they can afford to do it, but it also means losing out on a few key pieces to their team (but they would have the cap space). It's unlikely because of all the pieces they'll need, and they already don't feel he's worth the cap hit he has now. So, it's not likely.

What I'd be worried about are the other suitors around the league. It's easy to say he wants to be in SF with Shanahan and it's easy to say we have the money to outbid others. But what we don't have is a solid team, and it's hard to say which ones might be available. If a guy like Roethlisberger retires, the Steelers aren't far from home, are a class franchise, he'd have a phenomenal #1 WR in his prime (possibly the best in the league), and a much better chance at earning all of the dollars. Beyond the Steelers - the Cardinals and Broncos might be looking. Heck - even the Rams with McVay (with whom Cousins had his best years) might be an excellent destination. They can suck this year, sell their top pick for a boatload, pick up a WR or two in free agency/the draft next year, and suddenly be a formidable opponent.

Remember - since an NFL contract isn't all guaranteed, to earn the money of a contract you have to be put in a spot with the best chance to succeed and last through the entire thing.

So to me - giving up a 2nd round pick (of which we have 2) to give the Redskins a better (and earlier) consolation prize than the compensatory 3rd they'll otherwise get is worth it to have the ability to solely negotiate the contract.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's along my thinking as well Y2, as I hate dealing in uncertainties and being blind sided by a new bidder or oppurtunity for Cousins to step into a better situation I'd gladly part with a 2nd. Personally I'm banking on the fact that Cousins wants to be "where he's wanted" and hopefully our coaching staff, front office and money makes that apparent. As Y2 stated however the Skins should have the money to afford another franchise tag and even the transistion tag I believe is around 28 mil which would make him even more affordable and give them the ability to match offers, we would have to seriously front load that contract in order to out bid them though. Seeing as how their team is probably better situated talent wise than ours right we would be severely hindering our pursuit of building a contender again even with our excess of cap space making it quite a gamble and questionable if it's even worth it at that point. May I remind you all I'm a huge Cousins fan as well. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out though, and in any case at this point and time there may be more avenues to travel down like Jimmy G or a possible rookie.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
NcFinest9erFan wrote:
non-49ers news but Carolina just parted ways with Gettleman


As far as speculation goes about with that firing it's thought to be because of his handling of aging veterans on the team, such Deangelo Williams, Steve Smith and even Josh Norman and now his disagreeing with having to pay Olsen. Interesting timing though for sure, I thought there was an in house guy there who was a hot name?

With Kirk reportedly turning down an offer of 53 million guranteed in May and not even offering a return offer I'd say he wants to get the hell out of dodge. I can only assume that Allen will make that split as messy as possible just to inconvenience anyone who wants Kirks services, likely us. If they tag him again that's north of 34 million and he'd have to sign it in order for the trade scenario to happen. In which case it would probably cost us a 1st and more. The transition tag they could use as someone stated could easily be out priced as we would front load the hell out of it since we have the cap room and they don't. If they franchise tag him and he doesn't sign it and play, holds out an entire year which I don't see likely but this is already a cluster of situation, they could screw themselves out of any sort of return other than a comp. 3rd I think. Maybe they try and trade him now to get full value on a return, seems like if they don't they may have screwed themselves.


I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. I think its just a smart move, money wise by him and his agent. The cap goes up every year. 53 mil this year could turn into 70 mil guaranteed next year. He's banking on himself. He goes out and lights it up again, they very well may franchise him again next year, which would net him another 34 mil guaranteed. So he would make a grand total of 58 million in two years, more than the guaranteed money included in the offer from the Skins, which I'm sure was at least a 4-5 year deal. He's essentially LeBron-ing the Skins. James basically signs 1-2 year deals with a player option at the end of every year, which allows him to opt out and become a unrestricted free-agent. It puts pressure on the team to make sure they're competitive(i.e spend money) and keep him around. It also allows him an out if he feels the team isn't heading in a direction he wants. Cousins wants to see what direction the team is headed with the shake-up in the front office, while also maximizing his leverage as a potential free agent. He and his agent are playing it perfectly IMO. They're signing one year deals for maximum market value. Since NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, as long as he continues to play at a high level, he maximizes his full value each and every year he plays on the tag. And seeing as he's only 28, there's really no rush to go out and sign a long-term deal until the right opportunity comes along. Playing on the tag actually benefits his needs at this point, which is securing the best deal possible. I don't believe his willingness to play on the tag has as much to do with his disdain for the team, nor his desire to be a Niner. I think he's just keeping ALL his options open, while making the best business decision for himself in the meantime.


Last edited by 757-NINER on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be really awkward if Hoyer has a Pro Bowl type season. I wonder if Cousins is still pursued then. I could still see a young QB taken early because Hoyer is already 31. But Cousins is 28, and would command a lot of capital.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the holdup in Thomas not signing yet? I thought under the new CBA, we wouldn't have issues with rookies signing?
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