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Doug Pederson Confidence level?
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Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninjapirate wrote:
Doug is just a dumb andy retread that seemed like he couldnt readjust after the nfl adjusted to him.


But is he a retread if this is his first coaching gig?
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SenorWentz wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Its very easy to nitpick on minor decisions on both sides. I forget what game it was but there was a Sixers game last season that they had a last second inbound down by one score and Brett Brown drew up a play that set Embiid to take a three point shot. I know Embiid was the dude last year but he really shouldn't be the guy in that situation.

As far as the talent argument, what did Doug have to work with? A rookie QB? Some solid linebackers? There really wasn't much talent on the Eagles last year and he still fell just short of a .500 record. He had a team pretty devoid of talent playing pretty well if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, i'm completely playing devil's advocate here but I don't understand the huge disparity between the confidence in the two guys outside of liking one better than the other because of what he says in press conferences.


Comparing football and basketball coaches to begin with is pretty silly, considering a football coach has a far greater impact on the overall game. But from what I see from Brett Brown, I like his system, I like his philosophy on developing talent, I like the secondary talent that he has helped develop (RoCo, Holmes, McConnell) and I like his willingness to tell it like it is.

On the other hand, Pederson wont admit his obvious mistakes (see KC playoff game against NE, see swing pass to Darren Sproles / overall conservative gameplan in Cowboys game). He's shown no aptitude for game or clock management a trait that plagued his mentor (this one really sticks me, because generally, if you see your boss doing something you don't like, you do everything in your power to do it differently when you're in that role. It just screams lack of overall awareness to me.).

It's not all bad, Pederson seems to do a solid job of getting his guys ready to play and installing a sound gameplan. Outside of the Bengals game, I can't think of another one where it felt like the team mailed it in on him and a lot of that game had to do with Carson playing abysmal football. You're also right in that he didn't have a ton of talent (although people said the same thing about the team Chip Kelly inherited), especially offensively to work with last year. He had a rookie QB that had plenty of ups and downs. Going into Year 2, Howie has done everything in his power to give Doug the better assets on this team. This offseason was all offense, so we ought to see a considerable improvement for last year, though it may take them 2 seasons to fully gel. But overall, I'm less concerned with the productivity of our offense and more concerned with how he manages the game.

Lastly, I think a big part of my pessimism on Doug stems from the fact that I didn't agree with the hire from day one. Doug's overall lack of track record made me nervous from the beginning and it felt like Lurie hiring an Andy Reid replica just to placate the Chip Kelly tenure. After year one, nothing he did quelled any of my initial concerns about him, in fact, I'd say they worsened them in many ways. I think there is an enormous learning curve to be an NFL HC, let alone a good one. And he's about as far down on the list of qualified HC's as I could imagine.


Pretty debatable that basketball coaches are just as important if not more important than football coaches. Talent wins in every sport- look at New England. Best QB to ever play and they go to the super bowl just about every year. Have won five championships. LeBron best talent maybe ever and he has won three. A lot goes into having a good basketball team and football team. Football coaches have coordinators and the head coach can be completely specialized on offense or defense and hire a coordinator to handle the other 50% of the game. Basketball coaches have to develop ball screen coverages defensively and ball screen attacks offensively and have to coach both sides of the ball. A lot goes into football absolutely, but you have a lot of help from position coaches and coordinators to make sure everything is on the same page.

I guess the point I am making is that having a good basketball coach is incredibly important. It's easy to use LeBron James and say "well is Lue that good of a coach?" Lue isn't great but let's remember that LeBron James may be the greatest athlete of all time. Steve Kerr completely changed the Warriors offensively and they took the step that next year and won the finals when Mark Jackson didn't accomplish much in the playoffs with virtually the same team. Basketball philosophy is crucial nowadays especially with the amount of teams installing the spread pick and roll. A coach must know how to create constant advantages offensively and limit them defensively. A lot factors into what type of coverage you're going to play and how you execute and breakdown that ball screen coverage.

Football coaches are obviously extremely crucial. I think PEDs will be fine. He seems to constantly be looking for ways to adapt and find new concepts for the offense. Football coaches have more responsibility and detail, but they also have a huge staff to help delegate all of this.


It's not like New England has far and away the best roster in the NFL. Their coach maximizes all of their players, guys like Dion Lewis, who apparently couldn't hack it on the Eagles and a guy like James White, who was drafted in the 4th round were two of their biggest contributors in the SB and for most of the season. Outside of Edelman, they have a bunch of chumps playing WR that all are used in a way that promotes their strengths. You watch NE play and they simply don't make the boneheaded mistakes, turnovers and FUBARs that your average NFL team does. They are well coached top to bottom every single year.

As for the basketball, the Warriors were trending up, even with Mark Jackson. Hell, they won these past playoff games sans the finals with Mike freakin Brown as the head coach with Kerr out. There arguably isn't a worse HC in the game than Mike Brown. Basketball coaches have an impact, but it is nowhere close to the NFL. It's not like the Warriors run some super sophisticated offense, they run a ton of pick and roll and space the floor. They have 3 guys that shoot at an all-time great level and a big that can also space and run the offense and pass with the best of them.
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, he kind of countered his own argument with the assistant coaching being so integral. There's so many more moving parts in football. And that's why it's more difficult and there's more coaching needed. The head coach oversees all of that. It's way more chess-like than basketball. Where in basketball you overcome teams by stacking your deck.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is confidence level even measured?
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
How is confidence level even measured?


High, Medium, Low

Laughing
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Phire wrote:
How is confidence level even measured?


High, Medium, Low

Laughing


1 through 10.

1 evaluation everyone knows the rules.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
How is confidence level even measured?


Fired or not fired. haha but seriously that is it.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
ninjapirate wrote:
Doug is just a dumb andy retread that seemed like he couldnt readjust after the nfl adjusted to him.


But is he a retread if this is his first coaching gig?


No, there has been a few coaches who had disasters there first go around or few go arounds then ended up winning the Super Bowl.

Hoodie, Carroll , Vermeil come to mind.
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agholorsdad


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's like real stupid in some areas but I also think he understands how to build a team and treat his players. Would be a fine head coach if he got a real good OC that just didnt want to be a head coach and call the plays. He's the kind of coach that would win a super bowl if Carson becomes like his own OC and schwartz builds a top D.

oh, and if Brady retires.
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
ninjapirate wrote:
Doug is just a dumb andy retread that seemed like he couldnt readjust after the nfl adjusted to him.


But is he a retread if this is his first coaching gig?


In philly he is yes.
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babyatemydingo


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who the hell knows at this point?

He seems like he could become the sub-.200 middle infielder who was only in the major leagues for his sport intelligence, but is now the best coach on the planet.
Or he could be a bad guess.

Year two should tell.
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Kiltman


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was a bit all over the place in year one with results...but he seemed steady.

I think what's tough is separating what football intelligence he might have for the bumbling Uncle Doug persona we see every time they give him a mic.

The players seem to like him, and he seems good a delegating tasks to more qualified people or just letting the scouting and personnel staff do their job. So it's good for keeping things steady.

I think we'll be able to more accurately know where we should feel after we get into this season.

But for me? 6/10
Optimistic but not sold/confident.
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SenorWentz


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
SenorWentz wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Its very easy to nitpick on minor decisions on both sides. I forget what game it was but there was a Sixers game last season that they had a last second inbound down by one score and Brett Brown drew up a play that set Embiid to take a three point shot. I know Embiid was the dude last year but he really shouldn't be the guy in that situation.

As far as the talent argument, what did Doug have to work with? A rookie QB? Some solid linebackers? There really wasn't much talent on the Eagles last year and he still fell just short of a .500 record. He had a team pretty devoid of talent playing pretty well if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, i'm completely playing devil's advocate here but I don't understand the huge disparity between the confidence in the two guys outside of liking one better than the other because of what he says in press conferences.


Comparing football and basketball coaches to begin with is pretty silly, considering a football coach has a far greater impact on the overall game. But from what I see from Brett Brown, I like his system, I like his philosophy on developing talent, I like the secondary talent that he has helped develop (RoCo, Holmes, McConnell) and I like his willingness to tell it like it is.

On the other hand, Pederson wont admit his obvious mistakes (see KC playoff game against NE, see swing pass to Darren Sproles / overall conservative gameplan in Cowboys game). He's shown no aptitude for game or clock management a trait that plagued his mentor (this one really sticks me, because generally, if you see your boss doing something you don't like, you do everything in your power to do it differently when you're in that role. It just screams lack of overall awareness to me.).

It's not all bad, Pederson seems to do a solid job of getting his guys ready to play and installing a sound gameplan. Outside of the Bengals game, I can't think of another one where it felt like the team mailed it in on him and a lot of that game had to do with Carson playing abysmal football. You're also right in that he didn't have a ton of talent (although people said the same thing about the team Chip Kelly inherited), especially offensively to work with last year. He had a rookie QB that had plenty of ups and downs. Going into Year 2, Howie has done everything in his power to give Doug the better assets on this team. This offseason was all offense, so we ought to see a considerable improvement for last year, though it may take them 2 seasons to fully gel. But overall, I'm less concerned with the productivity of our offense and more concerned with how he manages the game.

Lastly, I think a big part of my pessimism on Doug stems from the fact that I didn't agree with the hire from day one. Doug's overall lack of track record made me nervous from the beginning and it felt like Lurie hiring an Andy Reid replica just to placate the Chip Kelly tenure. After year one, nothing he did quelled any of my initial concerns about him, in fact, I'd say they worsened them in many ways. I think there is an enormous learning curve to be an NFL HC, let alone a good one. And he's about as far down on the list of qualified HC's as I could imagine.


Pretty debatable that basketball coaches are just as important if not more important than football coaches. Talent wins in every sport- look at New England. Best QB to ever play and they go to the super bowl just about every year. Have won five championships. LeBron best talent maybe ever and he has won three. A lot goes into having a good basketball team and football team. Football coaches have coordinators and the head coach can be completely specialized on offense or defense and hire a coordinator to handle the other 50% of the game. Basketball coaches have to develop ball screen coverages defensively and ball screen attacks offensively and have to coach both sides of the ball. A lot goes into football absolutely, but you have a lot of help from position coaches and coordinators to make sure everything is on the same page.

I guess the point I am making is that having a good basketball coach is incredibly important. It's easy to use LeBron James and say "well is Lue that good of a coach?" Lue isn't great but let's remember that LeBron James may be the greatest athlete of all time. Steve Kerr completely changed the Warriors offensively and they took the step that next year and won the finals when Mark Jackson didn't accomplish much in the playoffs with virtually the same team. Basketball philosophy is crucial nowadays especially with the amount of teams installing the spread pick and roll. A coach must know how to create constant advantages offensively and limit them defensively. A lot factors into what type of coverage you're going to play and how you execute and breakdown that ball screen coverage.

Football coaches are obviously extremely crucial. I think PEDs will be fine. He seems to constantly be looking for ways to adapt and find new concepts for the offense. Football coaches have more responsibility and detail, but they also have a huge staff to help delegate all of this.


It's not like New England has far and away the best roster in the NFL. Their coach maximizes all of their players, guys like Dion Lewis, who apparently couldn't hack it on the Eagles and a guy like James White, who was drafted in the 4th round were two of their biggest contributors in the SB and for most of the season. Outside of Edelman, they have a bunch of chumps playing WR that all are used in a way that promotes their strengths. You watch NE play and they simply don't make the boneheaded mistakes, turnovers and FUBARs that your average NFL team does. They are well coached top to bottom every single year.

As for the basketball, the Warriors were trending up, even with Mark Jackson. Hell, they won these past playoff games sans the finals with Mike freakin Brown as the head coach with Kerr out. There arguably isn't a worse HC in the game than Mike Brown. Basketball coaches have an impact, but it is nowhere close to the NFL. It's not like the Warriors run some super sophisticated offense, they run a ton of pick and roll and space the floor. They have 3 guys that shoot at an all-time great level and a big that can also space and run the offense and pass with the best of them.


Ehhh you kinda have zero idea what you're talking about. I don't mean that disrespectfully but with the way you worded that kinda proves you don't know waht you're saying.

The Warriors do run a ton of pick and roll but a lot goes into how they run the pick and roll and the certain attacks they utilize depending on the ball screen coverages of the defense. The different attacks you utilize out of the pick and roll also vary on the certain spacing of where the ball screen is set. Kerr has done a very good job of utilizing certain attacks for Steph Curry such as the "short" roll when he gets blitzed on a ball screen or the pass ahead to open up the roll when the ball screen gets blitzed. He has plenty others as well. In addition, he has some of the best half court sets in the NBA for his shooters and they are amazing at attacking switching defenses with their motion and fluidity.

Then for their defense they are always connected and have mastered switching as well as anyone in Europe or in the NBA. Fenerbahce who won the Euroleague does the same and it seems that teams who are capable of switching and doing it the proper time in a possession are the toughest teams to play against. The Warriors switch tactfully and properly just about every time which is goes to show you how well they are drilled and understand the importance of switching at the right time and moments.

A LOT goes into the pick and roll. It's not just space the floor and run pick and roll. You will get whipped by coaches who know what they are doing with their coverages.

As for the Patriots, they do not run anything unheard of or never ran before. If you can show me a scheme or X & O they run that is unheard of that no one else runs in the league, feel free to show me.

They execute what they do because they have the best quarterback that has literally ever played the game. When you have the best player to ever play, he makes the Dion Lewis' look good. Kinda like how LeBron James made Shelton Gibson look good when they made they finals. LeBron has had a living of making so-so players look good. That's the making of a great player. Tom Brady does the same thing. When you are the best QB ever, you make people look better all around you.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SenorWentz wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
SenorWentz wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Its very easy to nitpick on minor decisions on both sides. I forget what game it was but there was a Sixers game last season that they had a last second inbound down by one score and Brett Brown drew up a play that set Embiid to take a three point shot. I know Embiid was the dude last year but he really shouldn't be the guy in that situation.

As far as the talent argument, what did Doug have to work with? A rookie QB? Some solid linebackers? There really wasn't much talent on the Eagles last year and he still fell just short of a .500 record. He had a team pretty devoid of talent playing pretty well if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, i'm completely playing devil's advocate here but I don't understand the huge disparity between the confidence in the two guys outside of liking one better than the other because of what he says in press conferences.


Comparing football and basketball coaches to begin with is pretty silly, considering a football coach has a far greater impact on the overall game. But from what I see from Brett Brown, I like his system, I like his philosophy on developing talent, I like the secondary talent that he has helped develop (RoCo, Holmes, McConnell) and I like his willingness to tell it like it is.

On the other hand, Pederson wont admit his obvious mistakes (see KC playoff game against NE, see swing pass to Darren Sproles / overall conservative gameplan in Cowboys game). He's shown no aptitude for game or clock management a trait that plagued his mentor (this one really sticks me, because generally, if you see your boss doing something you don't like, you do everything in your power to do it differently when you're in that role. It just screams lack of overall awareness to me.).

It's not all bad, Pederson seems to do a solid job of getting his guys ready to play and installing a sound gameplan. Outside of the Bengals game, I can't think of another one where it felt like the team mailed it in on him and a lot of that game had to do with Carson playing abysmal football. You're also right in that he didn't have a ton of talent (although people said the same thing about the team Chip Kelly inherited), especially offensively to work with last year. He had a rookie QB that had plenty of ups and downs. Going into Year 2, Howie has done everything in his power to give Doug the better assets on this team. This offseason was all offense, so we ought to see a considerable improvement for last year, though it may take them 2 seasons to fully gel. But overall, I'm less concerned with the productivity of our offense and more concerned with how he manages the game.

Lastly, I think a big part of my pessimism on Doug stems from the fact that I didn't agree with the hire from day one. Doug's overall lack of track record made me nervous from the beginning and it felt like Lurie hiring an Andy Reid replica just to placate the Chip Kelly tenure. After year one, nothing he did quelled any of my initial concerns about him, in fact, I'd say they worsened them in many ways. I think there is an enormous learning curve to be an NFL HC, let alone a good one. And he's about as far down on the list of qualified HC's as I could imagine.


Pretty debatable that basketball coaches are just as important if not more important than football coaches. Talent wins in every sport- look at New England. Best QB to ever play and they go to the super bowl just about every year. Have won five championships. LeBron best talent maybe ever and he has won three. A lot goes into having a good basketball team and football team. Football coaches have coordinators and the head coach can be completely specialized on offense or defense and hire a coordinator to handle the other 50% of the game. Basketball coaches have to develop ball screen coverages defensively and ball screen attacks offensively and have to coach both sides of the ball. A lot goes into football absolutely, but you have a lot of help from position coaches and coordinators to make sure everything is on the same page.

I guess the point I am making is that having a good basketball coach is incredibly important. It's easy to use LeBron James and say "well is Lue that good of a coach?" Lue isn't great but let's remember that LeBron James may be the greatest athlete of all time. Steve Kerr completely changed the Warriors offensively and they took the step that next year and won the finals when Mark Jackson didn't accomplish much in the playoffs with virtually the same team. Basketball philosophy is crucial nowadays especially with the amount of teams installing the spread pick and roll. A coach must know how to create constant advantages offensively and limit them defensively. A lot factors into what type of coverage you're going to play and how you execute and breakdown that ball screen coverage.

Football coaches are obviously extremely crucial. I think PEDs will be fine. He seems to constantly be looking for ways to adapt and find new concepts for the offense. Football coaches have more responsibility and detail, but they also have a huge staff to help delegate all of this.


It's not like New England has far and away the best roster in the NFL. Their coach maximizes all of their players, guys like Dion Lewis, who apparently couldn't hack it on the Eagles and a guy like James White, who was drafted in the 4th round were two of their biggest contributors in the SB and for most of the season. Outside of Edelman, they have a bunch of chumps playing WR that all are used in a way that promotes their strengths. You watch NE play and they simply don't make the boneheaded mistakes, turnovers and FUBARs that your average NFL team does. They are well coached top to bottom every single year.

As for the basketball, the Warriors were trending up, even with Mark Jackson. Hell, they won these past playoff games sans the finals with Mike freakin Brown as the head coach with Kerr out. There arguably isn't a worse HC in the game than Mike Brown. Basketball coaches have an impact, but it is nowhere close to the NFL. It's not like the Warriors run some super sophisticated offense, they run a ton of pick and roll and space the floor. They have 3 guys that shoot at an all-time great level and a big that can also space and run the offense and pass with the best of them.


Ehhh you kinda have zero idea what you're talking about. I don't mean that disrespectfully but with the way you worded that kinda proves you don't know waht you're saying.

The Warriors do run a ton of pick and roll but a lot goes into how they run the pick and roll and the certain attacks they utilize depending on the ball screen coverages of the defense. The different attacks you utilize out of the pick and roll also vary on the certain spacing of where the ball screen is set. Kerr has done a very good job of utilizing certain attacks for Steph Curry such as the "short" roll when he gets blitzed on a ball screen or the pass ahead to open up the roll when the ball screen gets blitzed. He has plenty others as well. In addition, he has some of the best half court sets in the NBA for his shooters and they are amazing at attacking switching defenses with their motion and fluidity.

Then for their defense they are always connected and have mastered switching as well as anyone in Europe or in the NBA. Fenerbahce who won the Euroleague does the same and it seems that teams who are capable of switching and doing it the proper time in a possession are the toughest teams to play against. The Warriors switch tactfully and properly just about every time which is goes to show you how well they are drilled and understand the importance of switching at the right time and moments.

A LOT goes into the pick and roll. It's not just space the floor and run pick and roll. You will get whipped by coaches who know what they are doing with their coverages.

As for the Patriots, they do not run anything unheard of or never ran before. If you can show me a scheme or X & O they run that is unheard of that no one else runs in the league, feel free to show me.

They execute what they do because they have the best quarterback that has literally ever played the game. When you have the best player to ever play, he makes the Dion Lewis' look good. Kinda like how LeBron James made Shelton Gibson look good when they made they finals. LeBron has had a living of making so-so players look good. That's the making of a great player. Tom Brady does the same thing. When you are the best QB ever, you make people look better all around you.


Right, Tom Brady is the reason their defense also plays at a consistently solid level with a lot of "no names" and has contributed to multiple SB wins. The Pats might not do anything revolutionary offensively, but they've modified their offense significantly over the course of Brady/Belicheck's tenure and consistently find ways to create mismatches offensively. Brady wasn't always the best QB in the league either, even during their earlier runs they made guys like Kevin Faulk into considerable contributors.

It's cute that you're still ignoring the fact that the Warriors won all playoff long without Kerr and with big dope, Mike Brown at the helm. Dude, every single NBA coach knows how to run different plays off a pick and roll. What differentiates the Warriors is that they have guys that can also score consistently with or without an inch of separation. And you're seriously crediting Steve Kerr with having guys that can switch on defense. It's clear to me that you lack knowledge in this category. Being able to switch on defense is much more of a product of having players that, you know, can actually execute a switch. Guys like Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala and even Kevin Durant are all very good to elite defenders. The reason they can switch is because all of those guys can guard multiple positions. That's not some novel concept or mastermind coaching, that's having ridiculous personnel that can play in just about any situation.

Where Kerr deserves credit is for putting Draymond Green into a more prominent role. For whatever reason Jackson underutilized him in his first two years, perhaps some of it is to do with the fact that he was still pretty raw his first two years in the NBA. With Durant, he's probably now the 4th option offensively, but he still impacts the game on both sides of the floor.
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SenorWentz


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
SenorWentz wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
SenorWentz wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Its very easy to nitpick on minor decisions on both sides. I forget what game it was but there was a Sixers game last season that they had a last second inbound down by one score and Brett Brown drew up a play that set Embiid to take a three point shot. I know Embiid was the dude last year but he really shouldn't be the guy in that situation.

As far as the talent argument, what did Doug have to work with? A rookie QB? Some solid linebackers? There really wasn't much talent on the Eagles last year and he still fell just short of a .500 record. He had a team pretty devoid of talent playing pretty well if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, i'm completely playing devil's advocate here but I don't understand the huge disparity between the confidence in the two guys outside of liking one better than the other because of what he says in press conferences.


Comparing football and basketball coaches to begin with is pretty silly, considering a football coach has a far greater impact on the overall game. But from what I see from Brett Brown, I like his system, I like his philosophy on developing talent, I like the secondary talent that he has helped develop (RoCo, Holmes, McConnell) and I like his willingness to tell it like it is.

On the other hand, Pederson wont admit his obvious mistakes (see KC playoff game against NE, see swing pass to Darren Sproles / overall conservative gameplan in Cowboys game). He's shown no aptitude for game or clock management a trait that plagued his mentor (this one really sticks me, because generally, if you see your boss doing something you don't like, you do everything in your power to do it differently when you're in that role. It just screams lack of overall awareness to me.).

It's not all bad, Pederson seems to do a solid job of getting his guys ready to play and installing a sound gameplan. Outside of the Bengals game, I can't think of another one where it felt like the team mailed it in on him and a lot of that game had to do with Carson playing abysmal football. You're also right in that he didn't have a ton of talent (although people said the same thing about the team Chip Kelly inherited), especially offensively to work with last year. He had a rookie QB that had plenty of ups and downs. Going into Year 2, Howie has done everything in his power to give Doug the better assets on this team. This offseason was all offense, so we ought to see a considerable improvement for last year, though it may take them 2 seasons to fully gel. But overall, I'm less concerned with the productivity of our offense and more concerned with how he manages the game.

Lastly, I think a big part of my pessimism on Doug stems from the fact that I didn't agree with the hire from day one. Doug's overall lack of track record made me nervous from the beginning and it felt like Lurie hiring an Andy Reid replica just to placate the Chip Kelly tenure. After year one, nothing he did quelled any of my initial concerns about him, in fact, I'd say they worsened them in many ways. I think there is an enormous learning curve to be an NFL HC, let alone a good one. And he's about as far down on the list of qualified HC's as I could imagine.


Pretty debatable that basketball coaches are just as important if not more important than football coaches. Talent wins in every sport- look at New England. Best QB to ever play and they go to the super bowl just about every year. Have won five championships. LeBron best talent maybe ever and he has won three. A lot goes into having a good basketball team and football team. Football coaches have coordinators and the head coach can be completely specialized on offense or defense and hire a coordinator to handle the other 50% of the game. Basketball coaches have to develop ball screen coverages defensively and ball screen attacks offensively and have to coach both sides of the ball. A lot goes into football absolutely, but you have a lot of help from position coaches and coordinators to make sure everything is on the same page.

I guess the point I am making is that having a good basketball coach is incredibly important. It's easy to use LeBron James and say "well is Lue that good of a coach?" Lue isn't great but let's remember that LeBron James may be the greatest athlete of all time. Steve Kerr completely changed the Warriors offensively and they took the step that next year and won the finals when Mark Jackson didn't accomplish much in the playoffs with virtually the same team. Basketball philosophy is crucial nowadays especially with the amount of teams installing the spread pick and roll. A coach must know how to create constant advantages offensively and limit them defensively. A lot factors into what type of coverage you're going to play and how you execute and breakdown that ball screen coverage.

Football coaches are obviously extremely crucial. I think PEDs will be fine. He seems to constantly be looking for ways to adapt and find new concepts for the offense. Football coaches have more responsibility and detail, but they also have a huge staff to help delegate all of this.


It's not like New England has far and away the best roster in the NFL. Their coach maximizes all of their players, guys like Dion Lewis, who apparently couldn't hack it on the Eagles and a guy like James White, who was drafted in the 4th round were two of their biggest contributors in the SB and for most of the season. Outside of Edelman, they have a bunch of chumps playing WR that all are used in a way that promotes their strengths. You watch NE play and they simply don't make the boneheaded mistakes, turnovers and FUBARs that your average NFL team does. They are well coached top to bottom every single year.

As for the basketball, the Warriors were trending up, even with Mark Jackson. Hell, they won these past playoff games sans the finals with Mike freakin Brown as the head coach with Kerr out. There arguably isn't a worse HC in the game than Mike Brown. Basketball coaches have an impact, but it is nowhere close to the NFL. It's not like the Warriors run some super sophisticated offense, they run a ton of pick and roll and space the floor. They have 3 guys that shoot at an all-time great level and a big that can also space and run the offense and pass with the best of them.


Ehhh you kinda have zero idea what you're talking about. I don't mean that disrespectfully but with the way you worded that kinda proves you don't know waht you're saying.

The Warriors do run a ton of pick and roll but a lot goes into how they run the pick and roll and the certain attacks they utilize depending on the ball screen coverages of the defense. The different attacks you utilize out of the pick and roll also vary on the certain spacing of where the ball screen is set. Kerr has done a very good job of utilizing certain attacks for Steph Curry such as the "short" roll when he gets blitzed on a ball screen or the pass ahead to open up the roll when the ball screen gets blitzed. He has plenty others as well. In addition, he has some of the best half court sets in the NBA for his shooters and they are amazing at attacking switching defenses with their motion and fluidity.

Then for their defense they are always connected and have mastered switching as well as anyone in Europe or in the NBA. Fenerbahce who won the Euroleague does the same and it seems that teams who are capable of switching and doing it the proper time in a possession are the toughest teams to play against. The Warriors switch tactfully and properly just about every time which is goes to show you how well they are drilled and understand the importance of switching at the right time and moments.

A LOT goes into the pick and roll. It's not just space the floor and run pick and roll. You will get whipped by coaches who know what they are doing with their coverages.

As for the Patriots, they do not run anything unheard of or never ran before. If you can show me a scheme or X & O they run that is unheard of that no one else runs in the league, feel free to show me.

They execute what they do because they have the best quarterback that has literally ever played the game. When you have the best player to ever play, he makes the Dion Lewis' look good. Kinda like how LeBron James made Shelton Gibson look good when they made they finals. LeBron has had a living of making so-so players look good. That's the making of a great player. Tom Brady does the same thing. When you are the best QB ever, you make people look better all around you.


Right, Tom Brady is the reason their defense also plays at a consistently solid level with a lot of "no names" and has contributed to multiple SB wins. The Pats might not do anything revolutionary offensively, but they've modified their offense significantly over the course of Brady/Belicheck's tenure and consistently find ways to create mismatches offensively. Brady wasn't always the best QB in the league either, even during their earlier runs they made guys like Kevin Faulk into considerable contributors.

It's cute that you're still ignoring the fact that the Warriors won all playoff long without Kerr and with big dope, Mike Brown at the helm. Dude, every single NBA coach knows how to run different plays off a pick and roll. What differentiates the Warriors is that they have guys that can also score consistently with or without an inch of separation. And you're seriously crediting Steve Kerr with having guys that can switch on defense. It's clear to me that you lack knowledge in this category. Being able to switch on defense is much more of a product of having players that, you know, can actually execute a switch. Guys like Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala and even Kevin Durant are all very good to elite defenders. The reason they can switch is because all of those guys can guard multiple positions. That's not some novel concept or mastermind coaching, that's having ridiculous personnel that can play in just about any situation.

Where Kerr deserves credit is for putting Draymond Green into a more prominent role. For whatever reason Jackson underutilized him in his first two years, perhaps some of it is to do with the fact that he was still pretty raw his first two years in the NBA. With Durant, he's probably now the 4th option offensively, but he still impacts the game on both sides of the floor.


Stop- You have zero idea what you're talking about.

Regarding Mike Brown- Kerr was the coach the entire year? Who the hell cares that Kerr wasn't physically there during the game? He built that teams culture. Mike Brown won't go in and change any of that. Brown didn't change anything that Kerr did. Probably ran the same practices and sets. Kerr was coaching that team still just not physically present during the games. Irrelevant but not surprising since you're reaching for straws in this argument with your lack of basketball knowledge. Here is your ideology: "All they do is space the floor and run pick and roll." Dude, the best X's & O's coach in the world, Andrea Trinchieri, does just that and its BEAUTIFUL to watch. The amount of detail and philosophy that goes into a well constructed offense in basketball is a lot. You must constantly be looking for new entries into the spread pick and roll depending on the coverages and create longer closeouts for your perimeter players. Then on defense, you must limit these advantages depending on your personnel. Regarding your statement on GS switching, just LOL. LOL. The warriors do not just do normal switches. They consistently perform triple switches or 'Switch-outs"when they decide to switch early in the shot clock. Or they will perform "ICE" and switch, scramble switches, etc. This requires great practice and awareness. Not many teams in the NBA have resorted to this coverage which a lot of teams do overseas in Europe (with much worst personnel) so it's not that they just have the personnel. You have absolutely nada idea what you're talking about. Stick to football and that is fine.
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