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All or Nothing LA Rams

 
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: All or Nothing LA Rams Reply with quote

Anybody watch the All or Nothing on Rams?

I watched it.

They tried to make them look as good as they could on field through editing though they were atrocious for much of season. I get it, they basically lived with them and want more contracts with other teams so they don't want to make them look bad.

It was actually kind of a sad story, for a bunch of millionaires that is. Gurley had an awful sophomore campaign and they were basing offense on him and through him. (Hopefully same thing doesn't happen to our soph RB). Narroraters mostly blamed it on the O line and teams daring Rams to throw, but I think Gurley was as much to blame. He simply didn't play very good last year.

I think he really bought into the hype of his inherent greatness, everyone said he was no. 1 fantasy back, etc. He came in to camp with the pretty blond model girlfriend and the flashy lifestyle. Just a theory. Maybe he forgot the work that went into it. Maybe none of that, maybe he just wasn't that good last year.

They didn't show much of the games, but the offense basically never scored. Defense played lights out for several games, actually winning the early games, and then just finally gave up when team never scored game after game or ran out of gas and started piling up injuries.

The Bears are following the Rams model with the QB and that didn't work out so well for Rams. Rams prepped a mediocre veteran QB and brought Goff along slowly, then when team totally failed they threw Goff out there with a team that basically, for all the positive coach talk, had quit. The defense had anyway and the offense couldn't function from get go. Once they said we are putting rookie in then team really quit and the blow outs started - which got Fisher fired mid-season. The firing was a dramatic, emotional moment for team and staff and made for good television for those interested in such things.

Goff, who I was not high on coming out, actually impressed me with his arm and athletic ability - at least what they showed. He might end up succeeding. He definitely has the physical talent to play in the league if he can hack it mentally.

I'd rather Trubisky just played from the start. Get all the reps, get all the attention and grow as a QB. Make his mistakes and get better so he is a rookie in 2017 and not a rookie again in 2018 which he will be if he doesn't play.

Otherwise you risk the same pattern you saw with Rams. You put a rookie QB in mid to late season on a losing squad and they will not play hard the rest of the season and leave him to die on a vine. Put rookie in from day 1 and for some reason they don't feel the same way. They accept situation for what it is and go with it.

If Bears are 3-7 and put Trubisky in and start losing by 30 like Rams did, the coaches are likely getting fired and whatever he learns in last 6 games or so isn't going to be that helpful for next season. Also people will be calling him, unfairly, a bust.

If Bears put Trubisky in for day 1 and team shows steady improvement or flashes like Philadelphia's Wentz did people will be satisfied and even excited.

You have the Philadelphia approach and the Rams approach. I prefer the Philly approach. Wentz will be much better this year as a QB than he would have been had he not started last year and just watched and learned. I really believe that. Reps, you need reps to get better at sports; real game reps, not mental or even virtual reality reps (yes that is a real thing Bears are doing).

Philly went with simplified game plan and got more complex as season went. I'm fine with that.

He can't call protections. Fine, let center or guard call the protections until he can and quiz him on them each week. He struggles with option routes/reads, fine limit those to a handful to start, maybe even one or two. You saw Kevin White struggle with option routes after sitting and watching for year. Cutler wouldn't even throw to him after White screwed it up and caused an INT. Because watching and sitting in meetings isn't the same as doing. An option concept of any type is simple. Takes 10 secs to explain. Option QBs rep option plays 500x a practice because making a snap decision at full speed is hard. Reps. Reps is what gets you better.

MT isn't good under center, fine have only a couple of under center plays in the game plan. There aren't too many plays that you HAVE be under center to run. You run inside and outside zone from the gun and that's basically the NFL running game. Nearly every major h.s. and college team in country does it. No reason the Bears can't do it too.

You don't need an entire playbook of possibilities for one game. You run maybe 14 dif plays in a given game.

Let the kid play now.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 3301
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say it is the "Ram's" model as much as just a method to ease the transition for Trubisky. Brady didn't start immediately, nor did Rodgers, Big Ben, Warner, Brees, Favre, Eli (not elite but good enough to get 2 Rings in the Brady/Brees/Manning days), etc. There has been a ton of success with this approach and a ton of failures as well. This can be said about the "baptized by fire method" as well.

There are a few differences though. The Rams (after trading with TEN) knew exactly who they could get. The Bears were not as sure, as Trubisky had to get through two other teams or trade up to secure the pick. Getting a mediocre veteran was the best option, unless Pace would have wanted to pull the trigger to get Cousins (which is still a poor idea IMO due to the cost to rip him away). Wentz was brought into a system he would run long term (likely at least), while we are renting Loggains for one more year until he and Fox get replaced.

Pace can't worry about labels being thrown by the media or fans. Wins secure his job, not people liking him (amazing how winning can dispatch so much negativity around a person though). If Fox gets fired, so be it, let Fangio have the reigns and see if he will be the answer. If the team has quits like you said the Rams seemed to do, then leadership clearly isn't up to snuff, in the locker room or the with the coaches.

Now I know I sound like I am in favor of the slow approach but that really isn't the case. Just as you mention adapting the schemes, calls, and such to the new QB, I think the approach needs to be fitted for them as well. If he is processing the game fast enough, and the team isn't devoid of talent to the point the QB is constantly being punished (see David Carr, newly-traded-for Cutler, Bortles, etc) then let him play. If the supporting cast is that bad, you let the rookie work in practice and let the giraffe take the beating. Sounds rough, but he was handed a large deal to be a mentor and punching bag that can hopefully be sold in a year or two to another bidder.

Mariota was brought in and they did much of what you are talking about. They brought in a lot of his college schemes to add familiarity and slowly added more into the game for him, and put a solid run game in place as well. The under center issue is little more a farce anymore, as long as they can get the snap cleanly at least. Most teams spent over 50% of their snaps in shotgun anyway.

While the I disagree on the plays being limited to THAT degree, I like the idea of calling one pass play and having a run audible for left and right available at any time. Tom Moore started implementing that with Manning, and Saturday was fantastic at adding input to help make changes. He should have 30 pass plays set up prior to the first game of the season, and the runs are all just the same 2-3 plays (for the QB) with only slight variances in footwork, delivery points, and direction (left or right) etc. Loggains calls the pass play, he or someone in the coaches box gives a point or tendency, Whiterhair and Trubisky make a call or two, and then Trubisky can either run the pass or make the audible to run left or right. Get the play in early and this can all be done in the next 10 seconds even for it being newly implemented.

In reality though, the system familiarity is not going to be too important for him as he will not be getting calls from Loggains next year anyway. No new HC will tie themselves to him. Getting technique, footwork, and familiarity with his weapons is the important detail of this season.

The important task is setting Trubisky up for success. Regardless if he starts day one or sits the whole year and merely does mop up duty, get the team set and develop him in every manner you can.
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:

The important task is setting Trubisky up for success. Regardless if he starts day one or sits the whole year and merely does mop up duty, get the team set and develop him in every manner you can.


Agreed. I think where people disagree is best manner of development.

You simply don't get better in football or any sport on the bench watching. Or you can I guess, but it is a very slow improvement versus playing and practicing. Most people regress with lack of play and reps. The watch and learn thing is based on worry that player will lose heart with early failure and be ruined. I think that is real, but overblown. Many, many HOF quarterbacks went through disastrous or poor rookie years and became HOF quarterbacks.

In baseball or hockey players are developed in minor leagues, but they are practicing and facing live competition for most part. Football doesn't have a minor league system to send guys not quite ready. Like NBA they have to get better with big league squad in season.

Training camp is one thing and where much development happens, but once season starts in NFL all focus is on starters and back ups get 'mental' reps or very minimal reps.

You only have a few days to prepare for each game and the starters need those reps. Players only get opportunities based on injuries or very poor play by a starter. They can't really win a job in practice alone past training camp. Practices are mostly glorified walk throughs and light scrimmages of the weekly game plan.

Despite what everyone says now there is very little chance the Bears don't turn to Trubisky in later season because this team likely isn't ready to contend. It just always works out that way. Question is what will team be like mentally by time he gets reigns? What will lame duck staff be like? How many good first team practice reps will he have had when they throw him in there for first time in week 11?

Putting rookie QB in late in season is seen as white flag and team usually quits even if subconsciously. Might even mean staff is lame duck. Not sure how that is more helpful than just starting him from day 1 for all involved.

I am whistling in the wind. I guess we'll see how it goes.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
Sugashane wrote:

The important task is setting Trubisky up for success. Regardless if he starts day one or sits the whole year and merely does mop up duty, get the team set and develop him in every manner you can.


Agreed. I think where people disagree is best manner of development.

You simply don't get better in football or any sport on the bench watching. Or you can I guess, but it is a very slow improvement versus playing and practicing. Most people regress with lack of play and reps. The watch and learn thing is based on worry that player will lose heart with early failure and be ruined. I think that is real, but overblown. Many, many HOF quarterbacks went through disastrous or poor rookie years and became HOF quarterbacks.

In baseball or hockey players are developed in minor leagues, but they are practicing and facing live competition for most part. Football doesn't have a minor league system to send guys not quite ready. Like NBA they have to get better with big league squad in season.

Training camp is one thing and where much development happens, but once season starts in NFL all focus is on starters and back ups get 'mental' reps or very minimal reps.

You only have a few days to prepare for each game and the starters need those reps. Players only get opportunities based on injuries or very poor play by a starter. They can't really win a job in practice alone past training camp. Practices are mostly glorified walk throughs and light scrimmages of the weekly game plan.

Despite what everyone says now there is very little chance the Bears don't turn to Trubisky in later season because this team likely isn't ready to contend. It just always works out that way. Question is what will team be like mentally by time he gets reigns? What will lame duck staff be like? How many good first team practice reps will he have had when they throw him in there for first time in week 11?

Putting rookie QB in late in season is seen as white flag and team usually quits even if subconsciously. Might even mean staff is lame duck. Not sure how that is more helpful than just starting him from day 1 for all involved.

I am whistling in the wind. I guess we'll see how it goes.



I agree with you, but even if he isn't starting I want Trubisky getting 40%of the reps in practice. Glennon is a placeholder, nothing more. If the season starts forming then I jump that to 50% and see how well he does. Competition, even if not stated openly, is not only in training camp.

To compensate they can make it more like a live have, with subs coming in with regularity. Abt like you're a college prepping against a fast tempo offense, get the defense rushing bff in subs, and do things same on offense, but with QB being the biggest rotation.

Either way, to me you can't write Trubisky off for the year, but it seems he will stay on the sidelines and develop behind the scenes for the time being. Id live to see him snatch the job away immediately though.
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dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:


I agree with you, but even if he isn't starting I want Trubisky getting 40%of the reps in practice. Glennon is a placeholder, nothing more. If the season starts forming then I jump that to 50% and see how well he does. Competition, even if not stated openly, is not only in training camp.

To compensate they can make it more like a live have, with subs coming in with regularity. Abt like you're a college prepping against a fast tempo offense, get the defense rushing bff in subs, and do things same on offense, but with QB being the biggest rotation.

Either way, to me you can't write Trubisky off for the year, but it seems he will stay on the sidelines and develop behind the scenes for the time being. Id live to see him snatch the job away immediately though.


That would be nice, but I don't know that it will happen.

40% in season reps for a non starting QB isn't done in NFL to my knowledge. Coaches want to win that next game. Their jobs depend on it. If this was Fox and staff first year he would be fine with it. He is on hot seat.

That is something GM would have to impose on them I think.

I also think that may cause a minor mutiny as you are asking guys to, in their minds, to slit their own throats (Jobwise).

Maybe if he could assure them they will be back next year they would be on board with split reps for rookie. Aside from that it, it may be a minimal effort if GM starts calling coaching shots.

On other hand Fox was involved with the draft decision and he knew what that meant. He is not stupid. Maybe he is prepared to be the good soldier and develop him at expense of weekly game planning and prep for starter.

Which means losing games, he may think he could have won.
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