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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 15462
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donzo wrote:
Everything I posted is exactly what happened.


Nope. What you posted there is what the media told you happened, HUGE DIFFERENCE.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Donzo wrote:
Everything I posted is exactly what happened.


Nope. What you posted there is what the media told you happened, HUGE DIFFERENCE.


this got a chuckle out of me.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Donzo wrote:
Everything I posted is exactly what happened.


Nope. What you posted there is what the media told you happened, HUGE DIFFERENCE.


this got a chuckle out of me.


Only thing missing was a #fakenews or #alternativefacts at the end.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1583
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Ben Fennell Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/benfennell_nfl

“The Green Bay Packers had a solid 2017 draft class.
So solid, in fact, that one scout with the team told me it was the best draft they’ve had during his run there. ”

.
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HUDSONandGRUDEN


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 221
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
y biggest worry about this team is OLB depth. That's where the consistent rush comes from in Caper's system and both Clay and Perry have been banged up. Clay in particular seems unable to last a whole season without missing multiple games.


My thing is that I get the gamble, and sort of support it. I think Rivers was kinda the last guy I thought was worth a draft pick at OLB. Every now and then a James Harrison puts in the work to be an all-pro, but 9 times out of 10 the good ones go early, for a reason. I think Biegel was someone TT had personally witnessed develop (there is some confirmation of this somewhere), and jsut thought it worth a 4th.

That said, TT has a poor history of gambling and getting away with it. When we lack depth at a position group, that group gets propped up in front of a firing squad and decimated. My thoughts are that neither are available when it matters, and our defense continues to look terrible. At that point, I see no room for Clay on this team. IF Clay is healthy and produces, fantastic, I love the guy, but if not that contract is holding us back, and we should be looking to trade up to fix that problem.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The depth at OLB is reasonable though. We have 2 established 1st round guys, Perry and Matthews, then a young 3rd and 4th as backups. This isn't going into the season hoping UDFAs and late round picks can be major contributors.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
The depth at OLB is reasonable though. We have 2 established 1st round guys, Perry and Matthews, then a young 3rd and 4th as backups. This isn't going into the season hoping UDFAs and late round picks can be major contributors.


Fackrell and Biegel are mid round picks (one is hurt) and everyone else is a UDFA. It's kind of exactly what you described. If Matthews or Perry heaven forbid have a serious injury I don't think any Packer fan are comfortable with a Fackrell/Elliott starter for a long time. More power to you if you are but I don't feel that's a winning recipe.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
I don't think any Packer fan are comfortable with a Fackrell/Elliott starter for a long time. More power to you if you are but I don't feel that's a winning recipe.


Which NFL team has the winning recipe for losing both starting OLBs and still being comfortable ?

This happens all the time in the land of Draft & Develop. Fans have less confidence in the development of young guys, while the front office sees it a bit differently.
Peppers was available, the Packers demurred. Jones was available, the Packers demurred.

They know everything we know AND a whole lot more.
They know the pass rush is critical, they know who's on the roster and they know the injury history of the incumbent starting OLBs.

It seems like the Packers feel better about Fackrell, Eliot, Biegel and Gilbert than the fans do - and that's not unusual in Titletown.

MM/TT prefer young legs on the defense, especially late in the season. Fans want a vet pass rusher ; we'll see what happens over the next couple of weeks and there's a few pass rushers still on the street.
.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
I don't think any Packer fan are comfortable with a Fackrell/Elliott starter for a long time. More power to you if you are but I don't feel that's a winning recipe.


Which NFL team has the winning recipe for losing both starting OLBs and still being comfortable ?

This happens all the time in the land of Draft & Develop. Fans have less confidence in the development of young guys, while the front office sees it a bit differently.
Peppers was available, the Packers demurred. Jones was available, the Packers demurred.

They know everything we know AND a whole lot more.
They know the pass rush is critical, they know who's on the roster and they know the injury history of the incumbent starting OLBs.

It seems like the Packers feel better about Fackrell, Eliot, Biegel and Gilbert than the fans do - and that's not unusual in Titletown.

MM/TT prefer young legs on the defense, especially late in the season. Fans want a vet pass rusher ; we'll see what happens over the next couple of weeks and there's a few pass rushers still on the street.
.


Where did I say both OLBs? It only takes an injury to one before one of them become starters. I know the staff probably feel fine with what they have, Ive just seen them trust young guys as reserves before (DB last year) and it didn't work.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackerRainman wrote:


Where did I say both OLBs? It only takes an injury to one before one of them become starters. I know the staff probably feel fine with what they have, Ive just seen them trust young guys as reserves before (DB last year) and it didn't work.


Fair enough. Now go back and list all the times they were right and then we can put some context around it. Are they batting .500 ? Was it injury or skill that came up short ?
Many Packer fans have a tendency to over-remember ALL of the serious hurts done to them, but rarely recollect / recite the times GB front office managed to get it right. (246)



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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
I don't think any Packer fan are comfortable with a Fackrell/Elliott starter for a long time. More power to you if you are but I don't feel that's a winning recipe.


Which NFL team has the winning recipe for losing both starting OLBs and still being comfortable ?

This happens all the time in the land of Draft & Develop. Fans have less confidence in the development of young guys, while the front office sees it a bit differently.
Peppers was available, the Packers demurred. Jones was available, the Packers demurred.

They know everything we know AND a whole lot more.
They know the pass rush is critical, they know who's on the roster and they know the injury history of the incumbent starting OLBs.

It seems like the Packers feel better about Fackrell, Eliot, Biegel and Gilbert than the fans do - and that's not unusual in Titletown.

MM/TT prefer young legs on the defense, especially late in the season. Fans want a vet pass rusher ; we'll see what happens over the next couple of weeks and there's a few pass rushers still on the street.
.


Where did I say both OLBs? It only takes an injury to one before one of them become starters. I know the staff probably feel fine with what they have, Ive just seen them trust young guys as reserves before (DB last year) and it didn't work.


They've also trusted young guys and it has. Greg Jennings, David Bakh, (insert running back here), Tramon Williams, Sam Shields.

This is part of the game. Go look at Fackrell's numbers by the snaps. He was VERY good in spot duty last season. If that doesn't earn him more opportunities I don't know what will. Biegel and Elliot are very good reserves IMO, but I'm also a fan of young legs rushing the passer.

My last thought here- who did we have a chance at that would have come in and been the starter? And if you say Watt, then you have a hole at CB. Perry was a must-resign and we did. Clay is a beast when healthy. But his contract is pretty much untradable after last year and you're not taking on dead cap to cut him. Just don't see what golden option we missed here. I thought we had a very good offseason considering the contracts we had to give and players we had to lose as a result. Not re-upping Lang last season on the "cheap" was the only mistake IMO
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1510
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Shanedorf wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
I don't think any Packer fan are comfortable with a Fackrell/Elliott starter for a long time. More power to you if you are but I don't feel that's a winning recipe.


Which NFL team has the winning recipe for losing both starting OLBs and still being comfortable ?

This happens all the time in the land of Draft & Develop. Fans have less confidence in the development of young guys, while the front office sees it a bit differently.
Peppers was available, the Packers demurred. Jones was available, the Packers demurred.

They know everything we know AND a whole lot more.
They know the pass rush is critical, they know who's on the roster and they know the injury history of the incumbent starting OLBs.

It seems like the Packers feel better about Fackrell, Eliot, Biegel and Gilbert than the fans do - and that's not unusual in Titletown.

MM/TT prefer young legs on the defense, especially late in the season. Fans want a vet pass rusher ; we'll see what happens over the next couple of weeks and there's a few pass rushers still on the street.
.


Where did I say both OLBs? It only takes an injury to one before one of them become starters. I know the staff probably feel fine with what they have, Ive just seen them trust young guys as reserves before (DB last year) and it didn't work.


They've also trusted young guys and it has. Greg Jennings, David Bakh, (insert running back here), Tramon Williams, Sam Shields.

This is part of the game. Go look at Fackrell's numbers by the snaps. He was VERY good in spot duty last season. If that doesn't earn him more opportunities I don't know what will. Biegel and Elliot are very good reserves IMO, but I'm also a fan of young legs rushing the passer.

My last thought here- who did we have a chance at that would have come in and been the starter? And if you say Watt, then you have a hole at CB. Perry was a must-resign and we did. Clay is a beast when healthy. But his contract is pretty much untradable after last year and you're not taking on dead cap to cut him. Just don't see what golden option we missed here. I thought we had a very good offseason considering the contracts we had to give and players we had to lose as a result. Not re-upping Lang last season on the "cheap" was the only mistake IMO


About the bolded part....I think it could be argued that if you took Watt and not King, then GB has 2 holes to fill, or two positions with huge question marks. Randall on the outside and Hyde's role inside.

By selecting King, I believe that GB is better on the outside AND better on the inside with Randall in there. At least I think Randall has more upside on the inside than Hyde did.

The selection of King was perfect and it netted us Biegle. Unreal. Months after it happened, I'm still kind of giddy.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a moot point now, nothing out there is going to help us more than Elliot, Fackrell and Biegel. There were plenty of cheap vet options to be an off the bench rusher in FA though. Barwin and Dummervil first come to mind. If Biegel and Fackrell outperform them? Just cut them and eat the minimal hit. Would've like a similiar Jahri Evans move made at EDGE.
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blankman0021


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
It's a moot point now, nothing out there is going to help us more than Elliot, Fackrell and Biegel. There were plenty of cheap vet options to be an off the bench rusher in FA though. Barwin and Dummervil first come to mind. If Biegel and Fackrell outperform them? Just cut them and eat the minimal hit. Would've like a similiar Jahri Evans move made at EDGE.


Barwin got 3.5 this year and Dumerville is on a 2-year 4M/yr deal. I'm not sure I pay that price for either when we have 2 young guys on the roster and the draft coming up.

Plus, Barwin just wasn't coming here unless we pay more than that. He had ties to the Rams new coaching staff and it was an obvious move for him to make.
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