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Raiders extend RG - Gabe Jackson for 5 years 56 million
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 8099
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKillerNacho wrote:
marshallplan wrote:
Raiders #1 in dead money cap space-

Reggie McKenzie would and should win GM of the year this season- Guys one of the best in the NFL-


You guys just had your first winning season in 14 years. While there is definite reasons for optimism, let's not count the chickens before they're hatched. I like Oakland but there is a very real possibility they do not match last year's success next year. And while McKenzie has done an admirable job especially acquiring talent through the draft, I'd rather wait and see how he does down the road. I'm not convinced he is an expert managing the cap and paying two guards this amount of money hasn't shown to have success on other rosters.

I do hope it works out for the Raiders, as I like the squad and want to see them do well. But you kinda seem like a homer, here. Sustained success is the measure of a good GM - not a single season.


I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said here, but the "paying 2 guards" thing is not a real argument, because it lacks context.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 3590
Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draft, develop and pay your core guys. Gabe is 26 and hasn't given up a sack in 2 years. KO, Hudson and Gabe make up the best interior OL in the game, they are vital for keeping Carr clean and our run game moving. A QB's worst nightmare is a pressure up the middle, we have guys that keep that from happening.

11.2 is a big number for a G, but we can afford it now, and with the cap going up the way it has, in a couple years this will be a deal for a top flight OG who will still only be 28. You draft good players, to keep them. Reggie has done a great job with the cap since he came in, I don't expect that to change. Hes been very meticulous in his approach, he got Gabes deal done with urgency, so that tells me it was important for Reggie to get this done. I trust RMC, and I trust that this is a positive for the team moving forward.
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Nightmare


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 3312
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tannenballs wrote:
Poor Raiders, it's not their fault. They just don't know. You don't have this much of a top heavy roster construction and win championships.


Bizarre comment.

You know it's Reggie McKenzie building this roster, right? The guy who came from Green Bay; a place where they draft well, pay their own talent and win regularly.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 8099
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gabe Jackson's 2017 salary cap number goes from $1,944,844 to $10,647,844 with his 5 year extension. $8.703M of existing cap space used.

The amount for the remaining 5 years in now approximately 46 million.

5 years 46 million is like 9 million a year, which pretty reasonable moving forward. I'd wager that there will be at least 2 or 3 guards who get more than that per year on the market.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25678
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKillerNacho wrote:
marshallplan wrote:
Raiders #1 in dead money cap space-

Reggie McKenzie would and should win GM of the year this season- Guys one of the best in the NFL-


You guys just had your first winning season in 14 years. While there is definite reasons for optimism, let's not count the chickens before they're hatched. I like Oakland but there is a very real possibility they do not match last year's success next year. And while McKenzie has done an admirable job especially acquiring talent through the draft, I'd rather wait and see how he does down the road. I'm not convinced he is an expert managing the cap and paying two guards this amount of money hasn't shown to have success on other rosters.

I do hope it works out for the Raiders, as I like the squad and want to see them do well. But you kinda seem like a homer, here. Sustained success is the measure of a good GM - not a single season.


That is a given IMO. The schedule is going to be much tougher this season on paper.

As for sustained success. That typically goes hand in hand with having a franchise QB, which they appear to have. As the franchise QB goes, so goes the franchise.
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marshallplan


Joined: 28 Sep 2015
Posts: 111
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
I'm not convinced he is an expert managing the cap


That's the only thing he's an expert at. Drafting is a whole lot of luck and he has missed on many FA signings.


I think Dan Williams signing was out of need more than anything- Remember before the signing the Raiders were extremely thin on that DL- Dan Williams wasn't expected to come in and produce pro bowl numbers- he was merely signed as a band aid type player- everybody knew that going into it-

Austin Howard actually had a great year at RT with the Jets before signing with Oakland- Dennis Allen moved him inside and he just never seemed to rebound back-

Reggie did hit on some great FA signings like Hudson, Osemele, Crabtree, Irvin etc.

[quote="TheKillerNacho"]
marshallplan wrote:
. I like Oakland but there is a very real possibility they do not match last year's success next year. .


I think it would be hard for most teams to match a 12-4 season-
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3881
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Success brings 'haters' I say this because the Jags are paying more to two DL (one at the end of career) yet because they aren't good except on paper so far they seem to have little hate for overpaying at same position. I'd take Osemele and Jackson over the other Jackson and Campbell in Flordia.
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scoobz


Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 38
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Success brings 'haters' I say this because the Jags are paying more to two DL (one at the end of career) yet because they aren't good except on paper so far they seem to have little hate for overpaying at same position. I'd take Osemele and Jackson over the other Jackson and Campbell in Flordia.


the difference is that the Jags haven't yet paid Bortles, don't have a $20m+ pass rusher on the verge of their huge deal, on top of Allen Robinson (similar situation to Cooper). Campbell will be nearing his end as Bortles starts to hit his big numbers. that's the tradeoff.
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12777
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scoobz wrote:
G wrote:
Success brings 'haters' I say this because the Jags are paying more to two DL (one at the end of career) yet because they aren't good except on paper so far they seem to have little hate for overpaying at same position. I'd take Osemele and Jackson over the other Jackson and Campbell in Flordia.


the difference is that the Jags haven't yet paid Bortles, don't have a $20m+ pass rusher on the verge of their huge deal, on top of Allen Robinson (similar situation to Cooper). Campbell will be nearing his end as Bortles starts to hit his big numbers. that's the tradeoff.


God help the Jags if they end up paying the 28th best QB in the NFL any semblance of decent money.
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Also you should get the ban hammer for being against Kate Upton and Jennifer Lawerence gifs.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshallplan wrote:

Reggie did hit on some great FA signings like Hudson, Osemele, Crabtree, Irvin etc.


Sure, i'm not saying he has been particularly bad with his FA signings but he did miss on a few (Woodley, Briesel, Lofton for example).

But his management of the cap has been flawless imo.
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marshallplan


Joined: 28 Sep 2015
Posts: 111
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
marshallplan wrote:

Reggie did hit on some great FA signings like Hudson, Osemele, Crabtree, Irvin etc.


Sure, i'm not saying he has been particularly bad with his FA signings but he did miss on a few (Woodley, Briesel, Lofton for example).

But his management of the cap has been flawless imo.


What team hasn't signed a handful of guys like that? It happens all the time...

Woodley was regarded as a top edge guy in the NFL but before signing with Oakland... he had struggled his final 3 years in Pittsburgh- It's why Reggie signed the guy to just 2 years... Every team brings in guys in hopes they somehow turn it around- the difference is what teams sign the guy to- It's one thing dropping a large 5 year deal on a guy vs a 2 year deal... Hell, even the Pats have brought in household name guys that didnt pan out and were cut.. Bad GM's are like what the Bucs were.. trading a 1st for Revis and then cutting him a year later

Reggie signed players- but he was cautious and made sure they were pretty much prove it deals.. thats the difference between Reggie and a lot of GM's out there.. It's why the Raiders are in great cap position with the least dead money in the league-
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15324
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Success brings 'haters' I say this because the Jags are paying more to two DL (one at the end of career) yet because they aren't good except on paper so far they seem to have little hate for overpaying at same position. I'd take Osemele and Jackson over the other Jackson and Campbell in Flordia.


There's a substantial difference in perceived positional value between DT and OG. If you think that's wrong, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with success, and everything to do with positional value. Positional value would also be why you didn't see criticisms like this when Denver paid 2 CBs, or KC paying 2 pass rushers. It isn't success, it's just positional value. G is generally viewed as one of the least valuable positions.

Though for the record, Jacksonville did get quite a bit of criticism for the Jackson signing, because it was a pretty risky overpay.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshallplan wrote:

What team hasn't signed a handful of guys like that? It happens all the time...


That's exactly my point. He doesn't stand above the pack in this part of the job.
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Iamcanadian


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anybody tell me how much of that 58 million is guaranteed. The NFL puts out these ridiculous #'s by including non guaranteed money and very few pros outside of QB's, top DE's, top LT's and top CB's ever get to see the last 2/3 years of their contracts.

Professional football players have the shortest careers of all the top sports athletes in baseball and basketball and do not make anywhere near the money an average athlete makes in those sports.

The NFL inflates the salaries to include non guaranteed money, because they are scared to death that all the top high school athletes will drop football for baseball and basketball, where they can actually make a heck of a lot more money and have longer careers with far less risk to their health.

The NFL owners have a pretty good idea of how much the cap will increase over the length of their guaranteed contracts and work within the framework of those $$$$'s.
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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
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Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

he'll see every dollar of it

you dont see teams cutting pro bowl caliber players during their prime

the notion of contract dollars meaning next to nothing, and only guarantees mattering usually comes with guys near the end of their primes who sign massive deals only to be cut a couple years later because by age 32 they suck
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