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Extensions I would offer over the summer

 
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Extensions I would offer over the summer Reply with quote

The Bears have cap space that they can use to extend some players and eat some of the money off of their extensions this season. I would offer the following TEAM FRIENDLY deals to the following players.

I am aware they may say no and wait for more money

-But Meredith and Callahan are RFA in 2018 so they would have to play 2 season for cheap
-Leno has never really cashed a big check
-Hicks has made some money, but the guarantees in this new deal are 150% of his total contract he just signed

I put these on the table right now and see if the players want some security or they want to take on the risk.

WR Cam Meredith 4 years 17 million/9.5 guaranteed [Terrence Williams-Dal]

I am a Meredith supporter and I would look to lock him up to a comparable contract to a #2 WR in Terrence Williams. Meredith has to play 2 seasons for almost nothing so he may be motivated to get some money in his account and become a free agent again at 28.

Remaining: 1 year 600k
Total: 4 years 17.6 million/9.5 guaranteed

DE Akiem Hicks 3 years 27 million/15 guaranteed [Jonathan Hankins-Ind]

Might be one of the best free agent values in Bears history. Signed for 5 million and promptly led the team in sacks, dominated against the run, and established himself as a team leader. I would make an extension and rewarding Hicks a priority. Not only is he an ascending player, but it sends a great message to your locker room to take care of a guy who has done what he has done.

Remaining: 1 year 5.7 million
Total: 4 years 32.7 million/15 guaranteed

OT Charles Leno 3 years 24 million/12 guaranteed [Kelvin Beachum-NYJ]

Charles Leno is not an All-Pro and he is not a Pro Bowl OT, but he is a solid starting LT in the NFL. He is durable and he is young and could still take a step into the next tier. Riley Rieff just made 11 million a season to play LT and Matt Kalil just made 11 million a season to play LT, anyone who wants to bail on Leno and get into that market is insane. Leno is better than both players listed above. My guess is he will turn down this extension. I would be willing to offer 3 years 30 million/16 guaranteed if he really pushed.

Remaining: 1 year 1.7 million
4 years: 25.7 million/12 guaranteed

CB Bryce Callahan 3 years 10 million/3 guaranteed [Nolan Carroll-Dal]

The injuries suck and will force the Bears offer to have low guarantees, but Callahan is a really good player. His ability to play a number of different roles in the secondary is a huge plus. This pays him like a very solid slot CB and also protects the Bears if he gets injured with a very low guarantee.

Remaining: 1 year 600k
Total: 4 years 10.6 million/3 guaranteed
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16531
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.

It wasn't so much WELL below the AAV with Hicks as it was term, though I do think $9M was somewhat low. I think at last year's level of play Hicks is in line for a 5/50 type deal. Another year like last year going into UFA and he's had a good year in NE with 2 pro bowl caliber year's here. He was REALLY good last year. But, if he's a UFA sanity frequently goes out the window. Malik Jackson got 6/85. That's the insanity you get when half the league has $40M in cap space.

As to Leno, he's a better player than Kalil and it's not close to me, and again, he'd be a 26-year old UFA with 3 years starting experience. Those guys get PAID. He could be looking at 5/60 with a good season this year.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.

It wasn't so much WELL below the AAV with Hicks as it was term, though I do think $9M was somewhat low. I think at last year's level of play Hicks is in line for a 5/50 type deal. Another year like last year going into UFA and he's had a good year in NE with 2 pro bowl caliber year's here. He was REALLY good last year. But, if he's a UFA sanity frequently goes out the window. Malik Jackson got 6/85. That's the insanity you get when half the league has $40M in cap space.

As to Leno, he's a better player than Kalil and it's not close to me, and again, he'd be a 26-year old UFA with 3 years starting experience. Those guys get PAID. He could be looking at 5/60 with a good season this year.


Leno, if valued by anyone at that level, should be trade bait, even if we have to franchise and trade next year. No way in hell has he shown he is worth $10 mil a year, regardless of how Kalil was overpaid.

I'd rather take my shot in the draft again.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13187
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.

It wasn't so much WELL below the AAV with Hicks as it was term, though I do think $9M was somewhat low. I think at last year's level of play Hicks is in line for a 5/50 type deal. Another year like last year going into UFA and he's had a good year in NE with 2 pro bowl caliber year's here. He was REALLY good last year. But, if he's a UFA sanity frequently goes out the window. Malik Jackson got 6/85. That's the insanity you get when half the league has $40M in cap space.

As to Leno, he's a better player than Kalil and it's not close to me, and again, he'd be a 26-year old UFA with 3 years starting experience. Those guys get PAID. He could be looking at 5/60 with a good season this year.


Leno, if valued by anyone at that level, should be trade bait, even if we have to franchise and trade next year. No way in hell has he shown he is worth $10 mil a year, regardless of how Kalil was overpaid.

I'd rather take my shot in the draft again.

Do you recall watching the Omiyales of the world out there? He's not Joe Thomas but he's solid, and solid and better NFL LTs make $10M/yr or more.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/left-tackle/
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.

It wasn't so much WELL below the AAV with Hicks as it was term, though I do think $9M was somewhat low. I think at last year's level of play Hicks is in line for a 5/50 type deal. Another year like last year going into UFA and he's had a good year in NE with 2 pro bowl caliber year's here. He was REALLY good last year. But, if he's a UFA sanity frequently goes out the window. Malik Jackson got 6/85. That's the insanity you get when half the league has $40M in cap space.

As to Leno, he's a better player than Kalil and it's not close to me, and again, he'd be a 26-year old UFA with 3 years starting experience. Those guys get PAID. He could be looking at 5/60 with a good season this year.


Leno, if valued by anyone at that level, should be trade bait, even if we have to franchise and trade next year. No way in hell has he shown he is worth $10 mil a year, regardless of how Kalil was overpaid.

I'd rather take my shot in the draft again.

Do you recall watching the Omiyales of the world out there? He's not Joe Thomas but he's solid, and solid and better NFL LTs make $10M/yr or more.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/left-tackle/


I'm aware of the costs of LT. Pace wasn't apparently going to break the bank for Jeffrey, who is FAR better than Leno ever will be at their respective positions. He gives up few sacks but a ton of pressures (big red flag in a WCO), numerous stupid penalties (I can overlook several holds, false starts are inexcusable at this point) and is below average in the run game (bigger red flag in a run first offense). Overpaying for mediocre isn't my idea of winning long-term. He is a high-end back up to me, low end starter. We already have one that is being overpaid in Glennon, we don't need two.

Any scenario where he walks through Halas Hall making more than Kyle Long on average is an absolute joke, I don't care about the positional value there.
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bearsfan323


Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 2707
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.

It wasn't so much WELL below the AAV with Hicks as it was term, though I do think $9M was somewhat low. I think at last year's level of play Hicks is in line for a 5/50 type deal. Another year like last year going into UFA and he's had a good year in NE with 2 pro bowl caliber year's here. He was REALLY good last year. But, if he's a UFA sanity frequently goes out the window. Malik Jackson got 6/85. That's the insanity you get when half the league has $40M in cap space.

As to Leno, he's a better player than Kalil and it's not close to me, and again, he'd be a 26-year old UFA with 3 years starting experience. Those guys get PAID. He could be looking at 5/60 with a good season this year.


Leno, if valued by anyone at that level, should be trade bait, even if we have to franchise and trade next year. No way in hell has he shown he is worth $10 mil a year, regardless of how Kalil was overpaid.

I'd rather take my shot in the draft again.

Do you recall watching the Omiyales of the world out there? He's not Joe Thomas but he's solid, and solid and better NFL LTs make $10M/yr or more.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/left-tackle/


I'm aware of the costs of LT. Pace wasn't apparently going to break the bank for Jeffrey, who is FAR better than Leno ever will be at their respective positions. He gives up few sacks but a ton of pressures (big red flag in a WCO), numerous stupid penalties (I can overlook several holds, false starts are inexcusable at this point) and is below average in the run game (bigger red flag in a run first offense). Overpaying for mediocre isn't my idea of winning long-term. He is a high-end back up to me, low end starter. We already have one that is being overpaid in Glennon, we don't need two.

Any scenario where he walks through Halas Hall making more than Kyle Long on average is an absolute joke, I don't care about the positional value there.

I'm aware of what you are trying to say. I agree- giving Leno *that* much at *this* point seems counterproductive as well as extremely idiotic.

I will disagree about the Kyle Long thing, though. Long is one more season ending surgery away from a "Should the Bears cut Long" thread next December. Speaking of counterproductive, keeping a highly-paid and often-injured OG around is counterproductive.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be fine with 10 million/year for Leno. That is what I would think they settle on.

But tomorrow I am offering him 8-9 and seeing if he doesn't want to take the injury risk in 2017.

4/36 20 guaranteed today may seem better than 5/50 27 guaranteed if everything goes right.
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsfan323 wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Windy I'm all for extending guys on what they will do in the future and I know you prefaced this by saying the players may reject, but to do that with any expectation of it working we have to offer them deals they might actually consider accepting. The offers you're discussing are well below market in both term and AAV. I think in a team friendly deal that has a chance to be accepted you can only short the player on one or the other. If we are offering Hicks an additional 3 years then I think the AAV needs to be market level. Right now Leno is in line to hit FA in 9 months as a 26-year old solid NFL starter with 45ish starts under his belt. That's a unicorn.


What do you consider market value for Hicks?

Hankins-9 million, Fairley 7 million, Brandon Williams 10.5 million. I think he slots in with Hankins, just behind Williams.

Unless you think he deserves the 15 million of a multi-time All Pro like Calias Campbell?

Leno is low, but I also state in the write up I would do 3 years 30 million to get it done. Which would put him 1.1 million behind Kalil and 1.7 million behind Rieff.

It wasn't so much WELL below the AAV with Hicks as it was term, though I do think $9M was somewhat low. I think at last year's level of play Hicks is in line for a 5/50 type deal. Another year like last year going into UFA and he's had a good year in NE with 2 pro bowl caliber year's here. He was REALLY good last year. But, if he's a UFA sanity frequently goes out the window. Malik Jackson got 6/85. That's the insanity you get when half the league has $40M in cap space.

As to Leno, he's a better player than Kalil and it's not close to me, and again, he'd be a 26-year old UFA with 3 years starting experience. Those guys get PAID. He could be looking at 5/60 with a good season this year.


Leno, if valued by anyone at that level, should be trade bait, even if we have to franchise and trade next year. No way in hell has he shown he is worth $10 mil a year, regardless of how Kalil was overpaid.

I'd rather take my shot in the draft again.

Do you recall watching the Omiyales of the world out there? He's not Joe Thomas but he's solid, and solid and better NFL LTs make $10M/yr or more.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/left-tackle/


I'm aware of the costs of LT. Pace wasn't apparently going to break the bank for Jeffrey, who is FAR better than Leno ever will be at their respective positions. He gives up few sacks but a ton of pressures (big red flag in a WCO), numerous stupid penalties (I can overlook several holds, false starts are inexcusable at this point) and is below average in the run game (bigger red flag in a run first offense). Overpaying for mediocre isn't my idea of winning long-term. He is a high-end back up to me, low end starter. We already have one that is being overpaid in Glennon, we don't need two.

Any scenario where he walks through Halas Hall making more than Kyle Long on average is an absolute joke, I don't care about the positional value there.

I'm aware of what you are trying to say. I agree- giving Leno *that* much at *this* point seems counterproductive as well as extremely idiotic.

I will disagree about the Kyle Long thing, though. Long is one more season ending surgery away from a "Should the Bears cut Long" thread next December. Speaking of counterproductive, keeping a highly-paid and often-injured OG around is counterproductive.


I will admit I'd be happy to see Leno become a franchise caliber LT for us, I'd be content to eat crow just as I would have if Shea could have made some big sides. I'm just not a fan of his, or his finesse based game.

That is fair, but I am not sure how quickly Pace turns on players yet. While he tossed out Fabujule he was simmering who never played a role on the team. But the Bears are paying McPhee and overpaying Houston who both are injury prone. White is guaranteed his money so cutting him does nothing, but Houston could have saved some cash and rolled that into 2018. Like McPhee, Long at least shows elite talent when healthy.
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