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What's the story with Jonathan Allen
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
@PFF @2016 @TBBuccaneers

Quote:
DT Gerald McCoy recorded the most QB pressures by a defensive tackle in a game in Week 7 against San Francisco.


If Allen's comp is Gerald McCoy, I'll take it! Cool


People keep saying this because they put up similar numbers. The fact is that McCoy was 10+ lbs heavier when he put those numbers up than Allen did.


9 pounds heavier actually. 286 vs 295.

He also put up similar numbers to Sheldon Richardson (only 8 pounds heavier) and Malik Jackson (2 pounds lighter).

Duffman57 wrote:
Allen is a completely different player as well. Nobody penetrated and out athlete-ed (is that a phrase?) OG's in college better than McCoy. Despite similar numbers, he didn't have NEARLY the explosiveness and ability to get around OG's that McCoy showed, in fact he struggled pretty badly in that regard.


I showed Allen's ability to get around OG's, without having to rely on superior hand usage, in several plays with video links on the previous page. His 2-gapping responsibilities in Bama's defense was a key reason he didn't do it more often.

Duffman57 wrote:
He's got a little bit of the same thing going that Deforrest Buckner had, but without nearly the length that Buckner has, that made him so valuable. He's a pure "throwback" base DE, that will probably struggle rushing the passer, even when kicked inside (which wasn't the case with Buckner IMO). There really isn't a great fit for him and he really doesn't have the kind of premium traits that teams covet, and will never be a true impact pass rusher.


This is interesting coming from a Joey Bosa fan. Bosa was knocked for a lot of the same things you're knocking Allen for. Obviously Bosa has better bend around the edge, as evidenced by his 3-cone time, but that isn't something Allen will be asked to do. Bosa is a great example of a player winning with superior hand usage and technical skills without having eye-popping athleticism.

To state that Allen will never be a true impact pass rusher is ignorant. Even players with horrible athleticism like Markus Golden have shown to be impact pass rushers at the NFL level, largely due to his technique, hands, and instincts/awareness.


Duffman57 wrote:
If he didn't go to Alabama, I wouldn't have been shocked to see him treated extremely similar to the way Jonathan Bullard last year (with + handwork). I see a guy who's going to be very solid for a long time, but you're definitely not getting an elite player.


Can I borrow your crystal ball?


1st, No need to be an A hole, I didn't say he won't be x or is going to suck. I just said I don't see him being elite. That's what the draft is about, projection. I could be wrong, you could be too...

Bosa is different though. Like Allen he was one of the most functionally strong guys i've ever watched for his size, but the separator for me was that Bosa has freakish agility. I went back (since I get caught up in numbers sometimes), and looked at players with similar agility numbers, and basically couldn't find anything. When I looked at the last 15 years, the only players i could find that were 270+ (i'm giving Bosa the extra 1lb from the combine weight) and had a similar combo of 3 cone/SS (my qualifications were sub 6.9 3 cone and sub 4.25 SS at 270+), were JJ Watt and David Pollack (one of the bigger injury busts of all time). And the next closest player to do that weight wise was 255. People who say he wasn't a great athlete are really just looking at his 40 time...because he's got some freakish athletic qualities of agility and flexibility.

Allen has none of those. He's a different player, sure, and will be used differently, but has absolutely none of those qualities that is exacly what made Bosa so successful on top of the elite technique and functional strength.

As for the other guys you threw out as comparisons. Body type and play style is very different for most of them. You're comparing him to penetrating 3T types and 1 guy who's a similar weight but 3" taller. But at least I could see him be somewhat similar to Malik Jackson. Again, I don't think he's an awful player. I think he's a very solid base LE for a long time. But I just don't see him eclipsing 5-6 sacks a season, even if he's playing with elite guys around him like Malik was in Denver. So if you want a comparison, I'd say he's a slightly lesser Malik Jackson because of the lesser length.


I wasn't trying to be an A hole. The way you worded that last sentence made it sound like "you're definitely not getting an elite player" was a statement of fact.

I understand that Bosa is a better athlete than Allen when it comes to flexibility and agility. The point I was making though is that Allen won't be asked to bend and get around the edge; he will be playing inside in both base and nickel packages. And honestly, a lot of the big plays I saw from Bosa last year happened because of his elite technique, strength, hand usage, or effort, more-so than his flexibility or agility.

As I've already said, look at Markus Golden and the impact he's had without having anywhere close to NFL average athleticism. Look at Michael Bennet's combine performance vs. the impact he's had. There are guys in this league who win on a consistent basis with superior hand usage, technique, and instinct/awareness without having great athleticism. And Allen's athleticism is better than both the guys I named.

Allen will be our penetrating 3T in Nickel packages, and his body type isn't that far off to the guys I comped him to (who's the guy that is 3 inches taller?), and neither is his athleticism, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say at the end.


Gotcha, I was more trying to say I definitely don't see him being elite. Not that he's definitely not going to be elite, but I can see the misconception.

As for the difference in players. It's not so much the numbers, as it is the fact that all of the DT's that you mentioned dropped 10 or so lbs from their playing weight to perform better at the combine. Richardson played at nearly 310 in college and McCoy wasn't far from that (and plays around 305 now from what I've seen). Allen's playing weight was always around 285 (though he was listed at 294 this year, I've heard he didn't play at nearly that size, and I'd be concerned if any team wan't him to play at 300+ like Richardson/McCoy do).

I'm not sure what you were watching from bosa, but basically every sack he had was set up by his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging. You don't see many guys that can get into the position where their upper body is strong enough to engage and disengage an OT with their hips pointed perpendicular to the OT. He got both Schraeder and Pastor on plays like that.

You don't NEED NFL average or better athleticism to succeed, but it's really, really hard to do it without it, and it's not like Goldon is lighting up the league with his sack production. 12.5 sacks is good, but he's getting sacks mostly because he's the "forgotten guy" on that team. I'd expect his sack #'s to go down without Campbell there (unless Nkemdiche can step up HUGE this year). Jones and Campbell took a LOT of attention off him.

Also while Bennett's numbers weren't great at the combine, he had a 37" vertical at 275 at his pro day, which is VERY good, and has some other very good numbers to compliment that (including a 1.62 10yd split). IIRC he was either hurt, or got hurt during his combine workout, and didn't finish.

I've seen a lot of places list Malik Jackson at 6'6" (and the rest at 6'5"), so I have him 3" taller than Allen, who was 6'2.5" at the combine).

I think he'll be a force vs the run, but i'd be surprised if you see him get more than 5-6 sacks on a consistent basis, and with that kind of production, for a DE, its hard to consider him an elite player. But I think the baseline for him is the kind of player that Jackson is. Great vs the run, and a meh pass rusher (unless he gets surrounded with talent, or literally nobody else even decent is on the DL, which isn't really the case in Washington.


Sorry, but it seems like you're having fun with numbers here. Casually dismissing some numbers, while giving more credence to others when they help your argument. For example, Jackson was measured 6'5" at the combine (actually, it was 6' 4&1/2"), which is the most official measurement you're gonna get, yet you're giving the 6'6" numbers more credence. And you're doing the same thing with the weights these guys played at in college. And Bennet's 1.62 split was at his pro day, where pretty much every player runs much faster than they do at their combine. I haven't heard anything about Bennett being injured. Pretty sure he would have brought it up in this video if he was: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/02/27/my-combine-michael-bennett

And have a look at this video and tell me "basically every sack" Bosa had last year came from "his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oklb_IBy8aw

I know he has that ability, but that is not the only reason he was winning. Not even the main reason, from what I saw.

And okay, I respect your opinion about Allen's future production. I just don't agree with it.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
Gotcha, I was more trying to say I definitely don't see him being elite. Not that he's definitely not going to be elite, but I can see the misconception.

As for the difference in players. It's not so much the numbers, as it is the fact that all of the DT's that you mentioned dropped 10 or so lbs from their playing weight to perform better at the combine. Richardson played at nearly 310 in college and McCoy wasn't far from that (and plays around 305 now from what I've seen). Allen's playing weight was always around 285 (though he was listed at 294 this year, I've heard he didn't play at nearly that size, and I'd be concerned if any team wan't him to play at 300+ like Richardson/McCoy do).

I'm not sure what you were watching from bosa, but basically every sack he had was set up by his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging. You don't see many guys that can get into the position where their upper body is strong enough to engage and disengage an OT with their hips pointed perpendicular to the OT. He got both Schraeder and Pastor on plays like that.

You don't NEED NFL average or better athleticism to succeed, but it's really, really hard to do it without it, and it's not like Goldon is lighting up the league with his sack production. 12.5 sacks is good, but he's getting sacks mostly because he's the "forgotten guy" on that team. I'd expect his sack #'s to go down without Campbell there (unless Nkemdiche can step up HUGE this year). Jones and Campbell took a LOT of attention off him.

Also while Bennett's numbers weren't great at the combine, he had a 37" vertical at 275 at his pro day, which is VERY good, and has some other very good numbers to compliment that (including a 1.62 10yd split). IIRC he was either hurt, or got hurt during his combine workout, and didn't finish.

I've seen a lot of places list Malik Jackson at 6'6" (and the rest at 6'5"), so I have him 3" taller than Allen, who was 6'2.5" at the combine).

I think he'll be a force vs the run, but i'd be surprised if you see him get more than 5-6 sacks on a consistent basis, and with that kind of production, for a DE, its hard to consider him an elite player. But I think the baseline for him is the kind of player that Jackson is. Great vs the run, and a meh pass rusher (unless he gets surrounded with talent, or literally nobody else even decent is on the DL, which isn't really the case in Washington.


Sorry, but it seems like you're having fun with numbers here. Casually dismissing some numbers, while giving more credence to others when they help your argument. For example, Jackson was measured 6'5" at the combine (actually, it was 6' 4&1/2"), which is the most official measurement you're gonna get, yet you're giving the 6'6" numbers more credence. And you're doing the same thing with the weights these guys played at in college. And Bennet's 1.62 split was at his pro day, where pretty much every player runs much faster than they do at their combine. I haven't heard anything about Bennett being injured. Pretty sure he would have brought it up in this video if he was: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/02/27/my-combine-michael-bennett

And have a look at this video and tell me "basically every sack" Bosa had last year came from "his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oklb_IBy8aw

I know he has that ability, but that is not the only reason he was winning. Not even the main reason, from what I saw.

And okay, I respect your opinion about Allen's future production. I just don't agree with it.


It says here that his Hamstring caused him to not participate in the Shuttle drills...http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=61445&draftyear=2009&genpos=DE

And I said up front that those numbers were from his pro day...because he was hurt during his combine according to NFLDS.

I didn't go and look up Malik Jackson's combine stats exactly, but the Jags have him listed at 6'5" and I've seen 2-3 other places list him at 6'6", so I took that for what it is. Either way he's a little over 2" taller than Allen.

He does have a lot of hustle sacks, but I was more referring to the ones that he won off the snap. Vs Remmers, vs Matthews, Vs Schraeder and vs Pastor, plus maybe one or two others. He did the same thing to create the 2nd sack on Carr, though he didn't get the sack off the move. The 2 plays vs Simeon had everything to do with his agility, so a good chunk of that video was mainly his agility and flexibility.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
Gotcha, I was more trying to say I definitely don't see him being elite. Not that he's definitely not going to be elite, but I can see the misconception.

As for the difference in players. It's not so much the numbers, as it is the fact that all of the DT's that you mentioned dropped 10 or so lbs from their playing weight to perform better at the combine. Richardson played at nearly 310 in college and McCoy wasn't far from that (and plays around 305 now from what I've seen). Allen's playing weight was always around 285 (though he was listed at 294 this year, I've heard he didn't play at nearly that size, and I'd be concerned if any team wan't him to play at 300+ like Richardson/McCoy do).

I'm not sure what you were watching from bosa, but basically every sack he had was set up by his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging. You don't see many guys that can get into the position where their upper body is strong enough to engage and disengage an OT with their hips pointed perpendicular to the OT. He got both Schraeder and Pastor on plays like that.

You don't NEED NFL average or better athleticism to succeed, but it's really, really hard to do it without it, and it's not like Goldon is lighting up the league with his sack production. 12.5 sacks is good, but he's getting sacks mostly because he's the "forgotten guy" on that team. I'd expect his sack #'s to go down without Campbell there (unless Nkemdiche can step up HUGE this year). Jones and Campbell took a LOT of attention off him.

Also while Bennett's numbers weren't great at the combine, he had a 37" vertical at 275 at his pro day, which is VERY good, and has some other very good numbers to compliment that (including a 1.62 10yd split). IIRC he was either hurt, or got hurt during his combine workout, and didn't finish.

I've seen a lot of places list Malik Jackson at 6'6" (and the rest at 6'5"), so I have him 3" taller than Allen, who was 6'2.5" at the combine).

I think he'll be a force vs the run, but i'd be surprised if you see him get more than 5-6 sacks on a consistent basis, and with that kind of production, for a DE, its hard to consider him an elite player. But I think the baseline for him is the kind of player that Jackson is. Great vs the run, and a meh pass rusher (unless he gets surrounded with talent, or literally nobody else even decent is on the DL, which isn't really the case in Washington.


Sorry, but it seems like you're having fun with numbers here. Casually dismissing some numbers, while giving more credence to others when they help your argument. For example, Jackson was measured 6'5" at the combine (actually, it was 6' 4&1/2"), which is the most official measurement you're gonna get, yet you're giving the 6'6" numbers more credence. And you're doing the same thing with the weights these guys played at in college. And Bennet's 1.62 split was at his pro day, where pretty much every player runs much faster than they do at their combine. I haven't heard anything about Bennett being injured. Pretty sure he would have brought it up in this video if he was: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/02/27/my-combine-michael-bennett

And have a look at this video and tell me "basically every sack" Bosa had last year came from "his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oklb_IBy8aw

I know he has that ability, but that is not the only reason he was winning. Not even the main reason, from what I saw.

And okay, I respect your opinion about Allen's future production. I just don't agree with it.


It says here that his Hamstring caused him to not participate in the Shuttle drills...http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=61445&draftyear=2009&genpos=DE

And I said up front that those numbers were from his pro day...because he was hurt during his combine according to NFLDS.

I didn't go and look up Malik Jackson's combine stats exactly, but the Jags have him listed at 6'5" and I've seen 2-3 other places list him at 6'6", so I took that for what it is. Either way he's a little over 2" taller than Allen.

He does have a lot of hustle sacks, but I was more referring to the ones that he won off the snap. Vs Remmers, vs Matthews, Vs Schraeder and vs Pastor, plus maybe one or two others. He did the same thing to create the 2nd sack on Carr, though he didn't get the sack off the move. The 2 plays vs Simeon had everything to do with his agility, so a good chunk of that video was mainly his agility and flexibility.


It doesn't say when Bennett got injured, so I can't just ignore the other numbers he put up before he sat out for the shuttle.

In that video for Bosa, when it comes to his sacks, this is what I saw:

@0:43 - clear hustle sack
@1:02 - wins initially with hands, technique, and bend, but gets the sack due to hustle
@1:23 - wins with bull rush, functional strength, and hands/technique
@1:34 - wins with hands and quickness. But it honestly looked like a weird case of the RT not even trying too hard to block here because the play was a roll out to the other side and Ryan was likely supposed to get rid of the ball quickly
@2:33 - won on a stunt up the middle
@2:48 - won on a bull rush and the LT abandoning his blocking assignment on Bosa at the end for some weird reason to help pick up #42
@2:55 - hustle sack, but he did use his hands at the end to get past the RT
@3:07 - the definition of a hustle sack
@3:20 - active hands and the QB walking right into the sack
@3:46 - bull rush into a nice inside spin move

I mean, you can disagree on a couple of those I guess, but, when it comes to his sacks, I definitely don't see him winning much with "his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging". Especially on "basically all his sacks".
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
@PFF @2016 @TBBuccaneers

Quote:
DT Gerald McCoy recorded the most QB pressures by a defensive tackle in a game in Week 7 against San Francisco.


If Allen's comp is Gerald McCoy, I'll take it! Cool


People keep saying this because they put up similar numbers. The fact is that McCoy was 10+ lbs heavier when he put those numbers up than Allen did.


9 pounds heavier actually. 286 vs 295.

He also put up similar numbers to Sheldon Richardson (only 8 pounds heavier) and Malik Jackson (2 pounds lighter).

Duffman57 wrote:
Allen is a completely different player as well. Nobody penetrated and out athlete-ed (is that a phrase?) OG's in college better than McCoy. Despite similar numbers, he didn't have NEARLY the explosiveness and ability to get around OG's that McCoy showed, in fact he struggled pretty badly in that regard.


I showed Allen's ability to get around OG's, without having to rely on superior hand usage, in several plays with video links on the previous page. His 2-gapping responsibilities in Bama's defense was a key reason he didn't do it more often.

Duffman57 wrote:
He's got a little bit of the same thing going that Deforrest Buckner had, but without nearly the length that Buckner has, that made him so valuable. He's a pure "throwback" base DE, that will probably struggle rushing the passer, even when kicked inside (which wasn't the case with Buckner IMO). There really isn't a great fit for him and he really doesn't have the kind of premium traits that teams covet, and will never be a true impact pass rusher.


This is interesting coming from a Joey Bosa fan. Bosa was knocked for a lot of the same things you're knocking Allen for. Obviously Bosa has better bend around the edge, as evidenced by his 3-cone time, but that isn't something Allen will be asked to do. Bosa is a great example of a player winning with superior hand usage and technical skills without having eye-popping athleticism.

To state that Allen will never be a true impact pass rusher is ignorant. Even players with horrible athleticism like Markus Golden have shown to be impact pass rushers at the NFL level, largely due to his technique, hands, and instincts/awareness.


Duffman57 wrote:
If he didn't go to Alabama, I wouldn't have been shocked to see him treated extremely similar to the way Jonathan Bullard last year (with + handwork). I see a guy who's going to be very solid for a long time, but you're definitely not getting an elite player.


Can I borrow your crystal ball?


1st, No need to be an A hole, I didn't say he won't be x or is going to suck. I just said I don't see him being elite. That's what the draft is about, projection. I could be wrong, you could be too...

Bosa is different though. Like Allen he was one of the most functionally strong guys i've ever watched for his size, but the separator for me was that Bosa has freakish agility. I went back (since I get caught up in numbers sometimes), and looked at players with similar agility numbers, and basically couldn't find anything. When I looked at the last 15 years, the only players i could find that were 270+ (i'm giving Bosa the extra 1lb from the combine weight) and had a similar combo of 3 cone/SS (my qualifications were sub 6.9 3 cone and sub 4.25 SS at 270+), were JJ Watt and David Pollack (one of the bigger injury busts of all time). And the next closest player to do that weight wise was 255. People who say he wasn't a great athlete are really just looking at his 40 time...because he's got some freakish athletic qualities of agility and flexibility.

Allen has none of those. He's a different player, sure, and will be used differently, but has absolutely none of those qualities that is exacly what made Bosa so successful on top of the elite technique and functional strength.

As for the other guys you threw out as comparisons. Body type and play style is very different for most of them. You're comparing him to penetrating 3T types and 1 guy who's a similar weight but 3" taller. But at least I could see him be somewhat similar to Malik Jackson. Again, I don't think he's an awful player. I think he's a very solid base LE for a long time. But I just don't see him eclipsing 5-6 sacks a season, even if he's playing with elite guys around him like Malik was in Denver. So if you want a comparison, I'd say he's a slightly lesser Malik Jackson because of the lesser length.


I wasn't trying to be an A hole. The way you worded that last sentence made it sound like "you're definitely not getting an elite player" was a statement of fact.

I understand that Bosa is a better athlete than Allen when it comes to flexibility and agility. The point I was making though is that Allen won't be asked to bend and get around the edge; he will be playing inside in both base and nickel packages. And honestly, a lot of the big plays I saw from Bosa last year happened because of his elite technique, strength, hand usage, or effort, more-so than his flexibility or agility.

As I've already said, look at Markus Golden and the impact he's had without having anywhere close to NFL average athleticism. Look at Michael Bennet's combine performance vs. the impact he's had. There are guys in this league who win on a consistent basis with superior hand usage, technique, and instinct/awareness without having great athleticism. And Allen's athleticism is better than both the guys I named.

Allen will be our penetrating 3T in Nickel packages, and his body type isn't that far off to the guys I comped him to (who's the guy that is 3 inches taller?), and neither is his athleticism, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say at the end.


Gotcha, I was more trying to say I definitely don't see him being elite. Not that he's definitely not going to be elite, but I can see the misconception.

As for the difference in players. It's not so much the numbers, as it is the fact that all of the DT's that you mentioned dropped 10 or so lbs from their playing weight to perform better at the combine. Richardson played at nearly 310 in college and McCoy wasn't far from that (and plays around 305 now from what I've seen). Allen's playing weight was always around 285 (though he was listed at 294 this year, I've heard he didn't play at nearly that size, and I'd be concerned if any team wan't him to play at 300+ like Richardson/McCoy do).

I'm not sure what you were watching from bosa, but basically every sack he had was set up by his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging. You don't see many guys that can get into the position where their upper body is strong enough to engage and disengage an OT with their hips pointed perpendicular to the OT. He got both Schraeder and Pastor on plays like that.

You don't NEED NFL average or better athleticism to succeed, but it's really, really hard to do it without it, and it's not like Goldon is lighting up the league with his sack production. 12.5 sacks is good, but he's getting sacks mostly because he's the "forgotten guy" on that team. I'd expect his sack #'s to go down without Campbell there (unless Nkemdiche can step up HUGE this year). Jones and Campbell took a LOT of attention off him.

Also while Bennett's numbers weren't great at the combine, he had a 37" vertical at 275 at his pro day, which is VERY good, and has some other very good numbers to compliment that (including a 1.62 10yd split). IIRC he was either hurt, or got hurt during his combine workout, and didn't finish.

I've seen a lot of places list Malik Jackson at 6'6" (and the rest at 6'5"), so I have him 3" taller than Allen, who was 6'2.5" at the combine).

I think he'll be a force vs the run, but i'd be surprised if you see him get more than 5-6 sacks on a consistent basis, and with that kind of production, for a DE, its hard to consider him an elite player. But I think the baseline for him is the kind of player that Jackson is. Great vs the run, and a meh pass rusher (unless he gets surrounded with talent, or literally nobody else even decent is on the DL, which isn't really the case in Washington.


Sorry, but it seems like you're having fun with numbers here. Casually dismissing some numbers, while giving more credence to others when they help your argument. For example, Jackson was measured 6'5" at the combine (actually, it was 6' 4&1/2"), which is the most official measurement you're gonna get, yet you're giving the 6'6" numbers more credence. And you're doing the same thing with the weights these guys played at in college. And Bennet's 1.62 split was at his pro day, where pretty much every player runs much faster than they do at their combine. I haven't heard anything about Bennett being injured. Pretty sure he would have brought it up in this video if he was: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/02/27/my-combine-michael-bennett

And have a look at this video and tell me "basically every sack" Bosa had last year came from "his insane ability to engage OT's, and flip his hips to the QB while bending the edge all while disengaging": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oklb_IBy8aw

I know he has that ability, but that is not the only reason he was winning. Not even the main reason, from what I saw.

And okay, I respect your opinion about Allen's future production. I just don't agree with it.


IMO, if Allen's shoulders turn out to be of no concern, then Allen definitely has the possibility to be elite as an inside DT who can apply consistent pressure on the QB and rack up sacks. The only reason he fell in the draft was the problem with his shoulders and not his ability.

I'm just not completely sure his shoulders won't affect him at the next level. We will just have to wait and see.
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