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2017 4.07 (114) RB Samaje Perine, Oklahoma
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is accurate to say that Gruden uses a FB because he uses his brothers offense - which featured a FB as a blocker, runner and receiver - when he became the Skins HC and he retained Chris Forester, Young was used a lot and played a lot. If I remember correctly Gruden used Brian Leonard some as a fullback when he first got to Cincinnati.

In 2014, DY had 3 TDs rushing and 11 recs, 81 yds & 2 TDs when Gruden became our HC and he was calling the plays.

I don't see how this is even a discussion. DY was an important part of our offense - even in 2014 - util Callahan came here. Then, DY was barely used in 2015 and then gone in 2016, same with Morris.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
It is accurate to say that Gruden uses a FB because he uses his brothers offense - which featured a FB as a blocker, runner and receiver - when he became the Skins HC and he retained Chris Forester, Young was used a lot and played a lot.


Interesting you say that since in both cases where Gruden took over an offense, the usage of a fullback dropped off to nothing within two years.

Quote:
If I remember correctly Gruden used Brian Leonard some as a fullback when he first got to Cincinnati.


Not really.

2011
- Cedric Benson: 273 attempts, 22 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 112 attempts, 17 pas targets
- Brian Leonard: 17 attempts, 31 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 3 attempts, 1 pass target

2012
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 278 attempts, 30 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 36 attempts, 9 pass targets
- Brian Leonard: 33 attempts, 15 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 8 attempts
- Dan Herron: 4 attempts, 1 pass target

2013
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 220 attempts, 8 pass targets
- Giovani Bernard: 170 attempts, 71 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 6 attempts

Quote:
In 2014, DY had 3 TDs rushing and 11 recs, 81 yds & 2 TDs when Gruden became our HC and he was calling the plays.


And by 2016, he was not on the roster.

Quote:
I don't see how this is even a discussion. DY was an important part of our offense - even in 2014 - util Callahan came here. Then, DY was barely used in 2015 and then gone in 2016, same with Morris.


Perhaps it would be better to say that both Darrel Young and Alfred Morris flourished in the running game that Mike Shanahan favored, and they were discarded shortly after Jay Gruden came to power. That to me points to a lack of interest in using a fullback.

Just as a point: we STILL don't have a fullback on the roster. Not even as a guy in rookie minicamp. If Jay Gruden is so into fullbacks (even if Bill Callahan is the one holding things up), why isn't there ANYONE on the 90 man roster who fits that bill?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
It is accurate to say that Gruden uses a FB because he uses his brothers offense - which featured a FB as a blocker, runner and receiver - when he became the Skins HC and he retained Chris Forester, Young was used a lot and played a lot.


Interesting you say that since in both cases where Gruden took over an offense, the usage of a fullback dropped off to nothing within two years.

Quote:
If I remember correctly Gruden used Brian Leonard some as a fullback when he first got to Cincinnati.


Not really.

2011
- Cedric Benson: 273 attempts, 22 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 112 attempts, 17 pas targets
- Brian Leonard: 17 attempts, 31 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 3 attempts, 1 pass target

2012
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 278 attempts, 30 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 36 attempts, 9 pass targets
- Brian Leonard: 33 attempts, 15 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 8 attempts
- Dan Herron: 4 attempts, 1 pass target

2013
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 220 attempts, 8 pass targets
- Giovani Bernard: 170 attempts, 71 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 6 attempts

Quote:
In 2014, DY had 3 TDs rushing and 11 recs, 81 yds & 2 TDs when Gruden became our HC and he was calling the plays.


And by 2016, he was not on the roster.

Quote:
I don't see how this is even a discussion. DY was an important part of our offense - even in 2014 - util Callahan came here. Then, DY was barely used in 2015 and then gone in 2016, same with Morris.


Perhaps it would be better to say that both Darrel Young and Alfred Morris flourished in the running game that Mike Shanahan favored, and they were discarded shortly after Jay Gruden came to power. That to me points to a lack of interest in using a fullback.

Just as a point: we STILL don't have a fullback on the roster. Not even as a guy in rookie minicamp. If Jay Gruden is so into fullbacks (even if Bill Callahan is the one holding things up), why isn't there ANYONE on the 90 man roster who fits that bill?
Really? I guess you can spin it how you want. The truth is DY was still productive and used in 2014 when Gruden took over despite battling a hamstring injury the second half of the year. If he was totally healthy, maybe he gets 5 or so more catches and another TD. I know this for a fact, when he was out and missed games because of his hamstring, Morris didn't have good games.

The reason McCloughan/Gruden didn't keep DY in 2015 was because Callhan wasn't going to use him in his running scheme, that much was clear in 2015. It was Callahan who ran more two TE sets like he did in Dallas and phased DY out.

Again, believe what you want but it's pretty clear to me, that's exactly what happened.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 18961
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
It is accurate to say that Gruden uses a FB because he uses his brothers offense - which featured a FB as a blocker, runner and receiver - when he became the Skins HC and he retained Chris Forester, Young was used a lot and played a lot.


Interesting you say that since in both cases where Gruden took over an offense, the usage of a fullback dropped off to nothing within two years.

Quote:
If I remember correctly Gruden used Brian Leonard some as a fullback when he first got to Cincinnati.


Not really.

2011
- Cedric Benson: 273 attempts, 22 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 112 attempts, 17 pas targets
- Brian Leonard: 17 attempts, 31 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 3 attempts, 1 pass target

2012
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 278 attempts, 30 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 36 attempts, 9 pass targets
- Brian Leonard: 33 attempts, 15 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 8 attempts
- Dan Herron: 4 attempts, 1 pass target

2013
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 220 attempts, 8 pass targets
- Giovani Bernard: 170 attempts, 71 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 6 attempts

Quote:
In 2014, DY had 3 TDs rushing and 11 recs, 81 yds & 2 TDs when Gruden became our HC and he was calling the plays.


And by 2016, he was not on the roster.

Quote:
I don't see how this is even a discussion. DY was an important part of our offense - even in 2014 - util Callahan came here. Then, DY was barely used in 2015 and then gone in 2016, same with Morris.


Perhaps it would be better to say that both Darrel Young and Alfred Morris flourished in the running game that Mike Shanahan favored, and they were discarded shortly after Jay Gruden came to power. That to me points to a lack of interest in using a fullback.

Just as a point: we STILL don't have a fullback on the roster. Not even as a guy in rookie minicamp. If Jay Gruden is so into fullbacks (even if Bill Callahan is the one holding things up), why isn't there ANYONE on the 90 man roster who fits that bill?
Really? I guess you can spin it how you want. The truth is DY was still productive and used in 2014 when Gruden took over despite battling a hamstring injury the second half of the year. If he was totally healthy, maybe he gets 5 or so more catches and another TD. I know this for a fact, when he was out and missed games because of his hamstring, Morris didn't have good games.

The reason McCloughan/Gruden didn't keep DY in 2015 was because Callhan wasn't going to use him in his running scheme, that much was clear in 2015. It was Callahan who ran more two TE sets like he did in Dallas and phased DY out.

Again, believe what you want but it's pretty clear to me, that's exactly what happened.
Jesus I swear you just argue to argue. Gruden obviously doesn't use a FB. It's pretty foolish to suggest otherwise.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
It is accurate to say that Gruden uses a FB because he uses his brothers offense - which featured a FB as a blocker, runner and receiver - when he became the Skins HC and he retained Chris Forester, Young was used a lot and played a lot.


Interesting you say that since in both cases where Gruden took over an offense, the usage of a fullback dropped off to nothing within two years.

Quote:
If I remember correctly Gruden used Brian Leonard some as a fullback when he first got to Cincinnati.


Not really.

2011
- Cedric Benson: 273 attempts, 22 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 112 attempts, 17 pas targets
- Brian Leonard: 17 attempts, 31 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 3 attempts, 1 pass target

2012
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 278 attempts, 30 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 36 attempts, 9 pass targets
- Brian Leonard: 33 attempts, 15 pass targets
- Bernard Scott: 8 attempts
- Dan Herron: 4 attempts, 1 pass target

2013
- BenJarvus Green-Ellis: 220 attempts, 8 pass targets
- Giovani Bernard: 170 attempts, 71 pass targets
- Cedric Peerman: 6 attempts

Quote:
In 2014, DY had 3 TDs rushing and 11 recs, 81 yds & 2 TDs when Gruden became our HC and he was calling the plays.


And by 2016, he was not on the roster.

Quote:
I don't see how this is even a discussion. DY was an important part of our offense - even in 2014 - util Callahan came here. Then, DY was barely used in 2015 and then gone in 2016, same with Morris.


Perhaps it would be better to say that both Darrel Young and Alfred Morris flourished in the running game that Mike Shanahan favored, and they were discarded shortly after Jay Gruden came to power. That to me points to a lack of interest in using a fullback.

Just as a point: we STILL don't have a fullback on the roster. Not even as a guy in rookie minicamp. If Jay Gruden is so into fullbacks (even if Bill Callahan is the one holding things up), why isn't there ANYONE on the 90 man roster who fits that bill?
Really? I guess you can spin it how you want. The truth is DY was still productive and used in 2014 when Gruden took over despite battling a hamstring injury the second half of the year. If he was totally healthy, maybe he gets 5 or so more catches and another TD. I know this for a fact, when he was out and missed games because of his hamstring, Morris didn't have good games.

The reason McCloughan/Gruden didn't keep DY in 2015 was because Callhan wasn't going to use him in his running scheme, that much was clear in 2015. It was Callahan who ran more two TE sets like he did in Dallas and phased DY out.

Again, believe what you want but it's pretty clear to me, that's exactly what happened.
Jesus I swear you just argue to argue. Gruden obviously doesn't use a FB. It's pretty foolish to suggest otherwise.
Well how do you explain 2014 then?

Why in 2014 was DY used a lot?

Why did he start more games in 2014 than in any other season in his career?

2014 was arguably DY's most productive season, he had 5 TDs that season. He never did that before or after. Gruden used DY several times in 2014 on spider 2 y banana's - like in the 1st Dallas game with McCoy as the qb on a 4th down call - he used DY as the first back through on 3rd and short and in the redzone often like his Brother used to do with Richie in Oak & Alstot in Tampa.

The reason why I'm continuing to discuss this is because it's beyond obvious that DY was used a lot more in 2014 than after Callahan was hired. He was used just as much in 2014 or more than he was by the Shannahan's. I'm not just making this stuff up.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jay-gruden-calls-jon-grudens-favorite-play-on-pivotal-4th-down-vs-cowboys/amp/
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Last edited by turtle28 on Sun May 07, 2017 11:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samaj32's photo https://instagram.com/p/BQ30PNFhVH-/

Looks like Samaje dropped 10 to 20 pounds around the combine. He may be quicker for us - if he keeps the weight off - than he was at OU the last few years.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/31264/sooners-coach-calls-redskins-rookie-samaje-perine-the-total-package

Wow, exciting read.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/31264/sooners-coach-calls-redskins-rookie-samaje-perine-the-total-package

Wow, exciting read.
Awesome! I really think he's going to be our most impactful player out of this draft because he'll be our starting RB and get 15 to 30 carries a game.

I can see at least 1100 yds and around 10 TDs rushing for him. I think Kelley will be our 3rd running back, get a few carries a game to get Perine a rest and mostly be a special teams guy. Thompson will be our scat back, 3rd down back and receiving threat. He'll have like 10 touches a game like 400 yards rushing, 4 TDs and 50 catches, 400 yards and 2 TDs.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/05/11/a-closer-look-at-redskins-fourth-round-pick-samaje-perine/?utm_term=.399c52256118

Good break down of Samaje Perine by Mark Bullock at the post.

Quote:
One of Perine’s best traits is his ability to fall forward — which sounds strange, but stick with me. On this play above, he takes the ball up the middle, but Auburn defensive tackle Montravius Adams, a third-round pick of the Packers, works off his block and makes contact with Perine as he crosses the line of scrimmage. But Perine shows off his strength, running through the initial arm tackle as Adams struggles to fully grab onto him. At around three yards beyond the line of scrimmage, Adams wraps him up, but Perine keeps fighting and dives forward to pick up an extra three yards.

The ability to run through tackles makes Perine an immediate option in goal line and short-yard situations, though incumbent Robert Kelley is also plenty capable in similar situations. One criticism of Perine is his tendency to cut back inside, even when the path to the edge is clear.

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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/31264/sooners-coach-calls-redskins-rookie-samaje-perine-the-total-package

Wow, exciting read.
Awesome! I really think he's going to be our most impactful player out of this draft because he'll be our starting RB and get 15 to 30 carries a game.

I can see at least 1100 yds and around 10 TDs rushing for him. I think Kelley will be our 3rd running back, get a few carries a game to get Perine a rest and mostly be a special teams guy. Thompson will be our scat back, 3rd down back and receiving threat. He'll have like 10 touches a game like 400 yards rushing, 4 TDs and 50 catches, 400 yards and 2 TDs.


I hope by "most impactful" you mean have the earliest impact, not the most. Because if Perine is the best we got out of this draft, then we either got REALLY unlucky with injury recoveries, or we done messed up.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/05/11/a-closer-look-at-redskins-fourth-round-pick-samaje-perine/?utm_term=.399c52256118

Good break down of Samaje Perine by Mark Bullock at the post.

Quote:
One of Perine’s best traits is his ability to fall forward — which sounds strange, but stick with me. On this play above, he takes the ball up the middle, but Auburn defensive tackle Montravius Adams, a third-round pick of the Packers, works off his block and makes contact with Perine as he crosses the line of scrimmage. But Perine shows off his strength, running through the initial arm tackle as Adams struggles to fully grab onto him. At around three yards beyond the line of scrimmage, Adams wraps him up, but Perine keeps fighting and dives forward to pick up an extra three yards.

The ability to run through tackles makes Perine an immediate option in goal line and short-yard situations, though incumbent Robert Kelley is also plenty capable in similar situations. One criticism of Perine is his tendency to cut back inside, even when the path to the edge is clear.


This is why I stomped for Kelley early and often last year. It's also why I say Perine is a rich man's version of Kelley: he's faster and comes from a more established school in Oklahoma, but he's essentially the 2.0 model of what we already had. Will he beat out Kelley for the job? Likely. Does he radically shift our team around? I don't know.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/05/11/a-closer-look-at-redskins-fourth-round-pick-samaje-perine/?utm_term=.399c52256118

Good break down of Samaje Perine by Mark Bullock at the post.

Quote:
One of Perine’s best traits is his ability to fall forward — which sounds strange, but stick with me. On this play above, he takes the ball up the middle, but Auburn defensive tackle Montravius Adams, a third-round pick of the Packers, works off his block and makes contact with Perine as he crosses the line of scrimmage. But Perine shows off his strength, running through the initial arm tackle as Adams struggles to fully grab onto him. At around three yards beyond the line of scrimmage, Adams wraps him up, but Perine keeps fighting and dives forward to pick up an extra three yards.

The ability to run through tackles makes Perine an immediate option in goal line and short-yard situations, though incumbent Robert Kelley is also plenty capable in similar situations. One criticism of Perine is his tendency to cut back inside, even when the path to the edge is clear.


This is why I stomped for Kelley early and often last year. It's also why I say Perine is a rich man's version of Kelley: he's faster and comes from a more established school in Oklahoma, but he's essentially the 2.0 model of what we already had. Will he beat out Kelley for the job? Likely. Does he radically shift our team around? I don't know.

Will he smash through more people?
Yes
Will he get more Red Zone TD's?
Yes
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do feel bad for Robert Kelley but that last stretch of the season really did him in in my eyes. He completely fell off a cliff and so the team knew they needed a lead back. I'm not quite sure that guy is Perine but I think the guy they had in mind went #8 to the panthers.

Anyway, I do think Perine will be an impact player to a degree and he's definitely an NFC East style RB but this team is absolutely allergic to drafting game-changing, homerun hitting RBs. It just blows me away how they avoid those players at all costs.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/31264/sooners-coach-calls-redskins-rookie-samaje-perine-the-total-package

Wow, exciting read.
Awesome! I really think he's going to be our most impactful player out of this draft because he'll be our starting RB and get 15 to 30 carries a game.

I can see at least 1100 yds and around 10 TDs rushing for him. I think Kelley will be our 3rd running back, get a few carries a game to get Perine a rest and mostly be a special teams guy. Thompson will be our scat back, 3rd down back and receiving threat. He'll have like 10 touches a game like 400 yards rushing, 4 TDs and 50 catches, 400 yards and 2 TDs.


I hope by "most impactful" you mean have the earliest impact, not the most. Because if Perine is the best we got out of this draft, then we either got REALLY unlucky with injury recoveries, or we done messed up.
I just mean because of the position he plays, he'll get the most touches and have the ball in his hands the most of any of our draft picks. I don't mean that he's a better player than Allen, Anderson or Moreau. I mean given his position that right away he's going to have an impact as a starting running back and get a lot of touches.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
I do feel bad for Robert Kelley but that last stretch of the season really did him in in my eyes. He completely fell off a cliff and so the team knew they needed a lead back. I'm not quite sure that guy is Perine but I think the guy they had in mind went #8 to the panthers.

Anyway, I do think Perine will be an impact player to a degree and he's definitely an NFC East style RB but this team is absolutely allergic to drafting game-changing, homerun hitting RBs. It just blows me away how they avoid those players at all costs.
Kelley hurt his knee, that's the main reason the last month of the season he didn't play as well.

The reason we didn't draft a flashy running back is because they either weren't available when we selected or they weren't the best player available when we drafted.

I don't think they're avoiding those types of running backs, we do have a running back who is a game-changing, homerun hitter on our team with Chris Thompson he just isn't our starter, but at any time he could take a handoff, reception or return to the house.

If Allen or Foster weren't available at 17, maybe we do take Cook who didn't get drafted until 24 picks later anyways because there were so many questions surrounding him.
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