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Bills Fire GM Whaley
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bzane


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1223
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
bigbadbuff23835 wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
He traded up to get Sammy Watkins in one of the greatest WR drafts ever and 3 years later Sammy isn't even the best guy from that class. He might not be top 3


I will defend that move until the day that I die. Sammy was seen as the next best WR, almost unanimous top WR in that class and a playmaker of the highest order. I loved that move because I truly believed Sammy was going to be a top 5 WR by now. Can't predict injuries, hindsight is 20/20, I loved it when we got him.


My issue with it was the price (we got the same from KC moving up 17 spots that we gave Cleveland to move up 5 spots) and the fact that they were doubling down on EJ.

My issue with the move up was the price coupled with it being common knowledge that the draft was deep in WR's. Playoff teams don't necessarily have to have the top 2-3 players in a position. It's a team sport and we would have benefited from staying put, going to the next player on our board, and added more players with our other picks over the next 2 years. We weren't one player from going to the playoffs, so IMHO the smarter move was to stay put and add more competition, especially in our weak areas. Moving up for a WR was an idiotic move. Now, had they thought they had a franchise QB there to pick, I would have been all over it. Apples to oranges though.


A concise and reasonable summation of the infamous Sammy Watkins deal. This year's first AND next year's first for a wide receiver. Stupid trade. I wish I could have worded it as well as this quote does.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So why now? Even if he's not calling the shots why not do it earlier


Did you read any of the thread? So they didnt have to start from scratch in the scouting process...
That's really not a good reason. Every other team moves on from their guy earlier. He isn't the only scout, nor is it like anyone else they bring in wouldn't have been working on things beforehand.

If you think he's bad enough to warrant being fired, why would you want his scouting reports over the reports of someone else that you do have faith in?


Scouting is about the only thing Whaley can do well. That is his expertise. If they had fired him a few weeks ago they could have been looking at a situation similar to Washington.

The Pegulas didn't make the decision to let go of Whaley until well after Rex was fired which is why it was not done at the same time.
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marshawn lynch


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So why now? Even if he's not calling the shots why not do it earlier


Did you read any of the thread? So they didnt have to start from scratch in the scouting process...
That's really not a good reason. Every other team moves on from their guy earlier. He isn't the only scout, nor is it like anyone else they bring in wouldn't have been working on things beforehand.

If you think he's bad enough to warrant being fired, why would you want his scouting reports over the reports of someone else that you do have faith in?


Even NFL network mentioned we were smart to let him go at the end of the scouting season instead of scrambling before the draft... even mentioned that more teams should follow the Bills lead because it makes much more sense.

Finding hidden talent was Whaleys strong point. He was fired for poor handling of the media, disagreement with McDermott, and inability to get us over the hump. He is not bad at scouting talent...
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bertuzzi wrote:
Same ol bills, revolving door of GMs and coaches. It will never change and we will always suck.


The problem is they've been hovering around 6 to 8 wins the last decade and a half. They haven't been truly awful outside of 2 or 3 years.
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Thelonebillsfan


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik wrote:
bertuzzi wrote:
Same ol bills, revolving door of GMs and coaches. It will never change and we will always suck.


The problem is they've been hovering around 6 to 8 wins the last decade and a half. They haven't been truly awful outside of 2 or 3 years.


And honestly I'd prefer to just tank for a year or two rather than continue same ole same ole.
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KManX89


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. McDermott was calling all the shots and has been for months.

Whaley was atrocious at his job.


It was still a curious time to do it.
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NickChowaniec


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KManX89 wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. McDermott was calling all the shots and has been for months.

Whaley was atrocious at his job.


It was still a curious time to do it.


It's really not though.

Quote:
Colts fire vice president of football operations Jimmy Raye


That's in addition to much of the college scouting staff.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19287994

Quote:
The team is parting ways with director of college scouting Blake Beddingfield.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/05/01/titans-make-a-change-to-scouting-department/

All 3 firings occurring after the draft. It's has a lot to do with keeping your all your scouting work during the reason there to use for the draft.
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
iPwn wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So why now? Even if he's not calling the shots why not do it earlier


Did you read any of the thread? So they didnt have to start from scratch in the scouting process...
That's really not a good reason. Every other team moves on from their guy earlier. He isn't the only scout, nor is it like anyone else they bring in wouldn't have been working on things beforehand.

If you think he's bad enough to warrant being fired, why would you want his scouting reports over the reports of someone else that you do have faith in?


Even NFL network mentioned we were smart to let him go at the end of the scouting season instead of scrambling before the draft... even mentioned that more teams should follow the Bills lead because it makes much more sense.

Finding hidden talent was Whaleys strong point. He was fired for poor handling of the media, disagreement with McDermott, and inability to get us over the hump. He is not bad at scouting talent...


From 2013-2015 the only regulars on our team are Sammy Watkins, Ronald Darby , Cyrus Kouandijo, Preston Brown, Nick O'Leary, John Miller and Dezmin Lewis via draft with Shady McCoy being by product of Kiko Alonso

On what planet is this good scouting or drafting ?
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DirtyHarry


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Charles Clay move did him no favors was that his move Bills Fans ?
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marshawn lynch


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyHarry wrote:
That Charles Clay move did him no favors was that his move Bills Fans ?


Well Clay has been a good TE for us but Overdorf structures the contracts... Pegula said that the GM will decides if he is let go or retained.
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DirtyHarry


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
That Charles Clay move did him no favors was that his move Bills Fans ?


Well Clay has been a good TE for us but Overdorf structures the contracts... Pegula said that the GM will decides if he is let go or retained.

The numbers is actually what I meant more than the player
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This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
iPwn wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So why now? Even if he's not calling the shots why not do it earlier


Did you read any of the thread? So they didnt have to start from scratch in the scouting process...
That's really not a good reason. Every other team moves on from their guy earlier. He isn't the only scout, nor is it like anyone else they bring in wouldn't have been working on things beforehand.

If you think he's bad enough to warrant being fired, why would you want his scouting reports over the reports of someone else that you do have faith in?


Even NFL network mentioned we were smart to let him go at the end of the scouting season instead of scrambling before the draft... even mentioned that more teams should follow the Bills lead because it makes much more sense.

Finding hidden talent was Whaleys strong point. He was fired for poor handling of the media, disagreement with McDermott, and inability to get us over the hump. He is not bad at scouting talent...
Why would you fire someone for their handling of the media if they're so good at getting talent? Teams are allowed to have someone else in a speaking role.

Disagreements with McDermott? Why didn't your team have the foresight to make sure the two most important front office pieces on the team were on the same page before bringing the second one in? This is business 101 type stuff, your GM and coach need to have the same vision. That's a failure on the Bills part.

So he's good at scouting talent, but can't actually get the talent to get you over the hump? That doesn't sound like he's actually good at scouting talent. And the Bills just committed another years worth of draft picks to the scouting from a guy who can't get you over the hump. That's not smart.

It didn't work 4 years ago when your GM stepped down after screwing up another draft by trading up for EJ, and it's probably not a great decision now.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
iPwn wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So why now? Even if he's not calling the shots why not do it earlier


Did you read any of the thread? So they didnt have to start from scratch in the scouting process...
That's really not a good reason. Every other team moves on from their guy earlier. He isn't the only scout, nor is it like anyone else they bring in wouldn't have been working on things beforehand.

If you think he's bad enough to warrant being fired, why would you want his scouting reports over the reports of someone else that you do have faith in?


Even NFL network mentioned we were smart to let him go at the end of the scouting season instead of scrambling before the draft... even mentioned that more teams should follow the Bills lead because it makes much more sense.

Finding hidden talent was Whaleys strong point. He was fired for poor handling of the media, disagreement with McDermott, and inability to get us over the hump. He is not bad at scouting talent...
Why would you fire someone for their handling of the media if they're so good at getting talent? Teams are allowed to have someone else in a speaking role.

Disagreements with McDermott? Why didn't your team have the foresight to make sure the two most important front office pieces on the team were on the same page before bringing the second one in? This is business 101 type stuff, your GM and coach need to have the same vision. That's a failure on the Bills part.

So he's good at scouting talent, but can't actually get the talent to get you over the hump? That doesn't sound like he's actually good at scouting talent. And the Bills just committed another years worth of draft picks to the scouting from a guy who can't get you over the hump. That's not smart.

It didn't work 4 years ago when your GM stepped down after screwing up another draft by trading up for EJ, and it's probably not a great decision now.


The Bills actually traded down to get EJ. The only bright spot of that trade was it helped them land McCoy.

Also I do not believe it is the GM's job to get players over the hump, but rather the coaching. Where obviously Rex failed.

I'm not sure where marshawn lynch got the idea that McD and Whaley had disagreements. I have yet to see anything supporting that.

But really, this isn't complicated. Whaley and his scouts had been working for the Bills on this draft for a year. Firing them in January (assuming back then Pegula knew he would fire him) only makes sense if you have a GM lined up who can get scouting reports built for your team and not their previous one. So they let Whaley and his scout build the board and allowed McD to use them as references while he made the selections and while he moved players up and down as well as taking them off the board completely (see Reuben Foster).

The guy that drafted the players is the one that is staying with the team for the foreseeable future.
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