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TitanSS


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Posts: 6194
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: TitanSS Mock Draft Reply with quote

I'll start this off by saying when I post my thoughts on prospects in here, I often speak for what I would do, not what I think we will do. It can be very Madden-esque with me wanting to get players to run a scheme that I would like to run if I were GM, HC, OC, and QB. With that in mind, as much as I love O.J. Howard, you won't see him in this mock draft. The purpose of this mock draft is for me to be as realistic as possible and do what I think I would do if I was Jon Robinson, with no control of the the game-planning and schemes.

I did a mock draft on August 11th, right after training camp. I thought I would give a brief summary of what I thought before the pre-season even started before I get started with my new mock. I had projected that our pick from the Rams would be 7th overall and our own pick would be 11th overall.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=580278

FA: Larry Warford - OG

Draft
1.7: Corey Davis - WR
1.11: Marlon Humphrey - CB
3: Bucky Hodges - TE
3: Mason Cole - C

I just wanted to compare the general perception of our team after 2016's improvements to the perception after we saw the season play out. Now, without wasting more of your time, let's get to the draft.

2017 NFL Draft

1.5 Corey Davis - WR - Western Michigan 6'3" 210 lbs

NFL.com Background Info
Quote:
Davis was a great target for the Broncos despite being just a two-star recruit out of Illinois with a rough childhood and academic issues. He was the MAC Freshman of the Year in 2013 (67-941, six TDs), and then was named first-team all-conference for the first of three times in 2014 by leading the conference with 1,408 yards and 15 touchdowns (ranking third in the FBS). Davis was among the nation's leading receivers as a junior (90-1,436, 12 TDs) before garnering first-team All-American honors in 2016 by ranking in the top 10 in the three major receiving categories -- 97 catches (eighth), 1,500 yards (seventh), 19 touchdowns (tied-first).


Combine/Pro Day Results
Quote:
DNP


Not much has changed in 8 months. We look very hard to trade this pick and end up with another 2nd round pick, but ultimately, we just can't find a trade partner. We decide to take one of the best receivers college football has ever seen. Davis comes in and immediately jumps to the top of the depth chart at WR. He is so polished and what he lacks in deep speed he makes up with deceptive acceleration. He is an all-around WR who can line up inside or outside.

1.27 Budda Baker - S - Washington 5'10" 195 lbs

NFL.com Background Info
Quote:
The former Washington state high school 100-meter champion (and three-time state football champ) was honorable mention All-Pac 12 as a freshman (80 tackles, INT, six pass break-ups). Baker garnered first-team all-conference honors in 2015 (49 tackles, seven PBU) and 2016 (team-leading 71 tackles, 10 for loss, two INT, six PBU).


Combine/Pro Day Results
Quote:

40-yard Dash: 4.45 s
Bench Press: 15 reps
Vertical: 32.5"
Broad Jump: 115"
3-cone: 6.76 s


The Tennessee Titans trade 1.18 and 3.83 to the Kansas City Chiefs for 1.27, 2.59, and 4.133. The Chiefs see a chance to move up and land Mike Williams and they jump on it. They actually come out ahead by a little over 50 points on the trade value chart, but we're not going to complain. We just wanted back in the 2nd round.

Baker is a versatile safety who, when combined with Byard and Cyprien, gives us an incredibly diverse group of safeties that will allow us to do many different things and keep the offense guessing with what our defense is going to do. Baker can play in the slot or center-field. Byard can play deep-zone, in the box, or man with TEs and RBs. Cyprien can play in the box or as a traditional LB in our sub packages.

2.59 Adoree' Jackson - CB - USC 5'10" 186 lbs

NFL.com Background Info
Quote:
He was named a Freshman All-American, Pac-12 Defensive Rookie of the Year, as well as honorable mention all-conference (49 tackles, 10 pass deflections, 10 catches for 138 yards, three receiving TDs, two kick-return TDs). League coaches named Jackson a first-team All-Pac 12 defensive back in 2015 (one INT, eight PBUs). He was a second-team pick as a returner and finalist for the Paul Hornung Award as the nation's most versatile player contributing on offense (27-414, two TDs) and special teams (941 total return yards, two punt-return TDs). As a junior, Jackson won the Jim Thorpe Award and was named first-team all-conference and All-American after a strong season (five INTs, 11 PBUs.) He scored four times on returns, two on kickoffs and two on punts. In 2015 and 2016, he earned All-American honors in track. He ran a career-best 10.38 seconds in the 100 meters in the 2016 outdoor season.


Combine/Pro Day Results
Quote:

40-yard Dash: 4.43 s
Vertical: 36"
Broad Jump: 120"


I wasn't on board with him when people talked about him at the end of the first round, but at the end of the second the value at a position of need is certainly there. Jackson can play inside or outside and should see a lot of time as the nickel CB in his rookie season.

3.100 George Kittle - TE - Iowa 6'4" 247 lbs

NFL.com Background Info
Quote:
Kittle redshirted in 2012, played in a reserve role in 2013 (5-108 receiving) and 2014 (1-25 receiving). He shared playing time in 2015, starting six of 14 games, catching 20 passes for 290 yards and a team-high six receiving touchdowns. Kittle was an honorable mention All-Big Ten pick last season (11 starts, 22-314, four TD), even though he was limited by a foot injury the second half of the year.


Combine/Pro Day Results
Quote:

40-yard Dash: 4.52 s
Bench Press: 18 reps
Vertical: 35"
Broad Jump: 132"


Fasano has left a pretty big void at our #2 and blocking TE position. Kittle was considered the best blocking TE in college football and has the athleticism to occasionally catch some passes.

4.123 Dede Westbrook - WR - Oklahoma 6'0" 178 lbs

NFL Background Info
Quote:
Westbrook chose Oklahoma as his next stop, earning the Big 12 Offensive Newcomer Year (46-743, four TD) in 2015. After three games with some success in 2016, Westbrook went on an historic stretch to complete the season, earning unanimous first-team All-American honors with 80 catches for 1,524 yards (a healthy 19.1 per) and 17 touchdowns.


Combine/Pro Day Results
Quote:

40-yard Dash: 4.34 s **pro day
Vertical: 34.5"


Westbrook could be off the board because of domestic violence, but I believe he has been clean since 2013 (I could be wrong) and I do believe we have a coaching staff who believes in second chances if they believe the past is behind you (did I say "believe" enough times or what) Westbrook gives us an element on offense that we lack, the ability to go vertical. He will slide in as our #3 or #4 WR and be used to stretch the field.

4.133 Damontae Kazee - CB - San Diego St. 5'10" 184 lbs

NFL.com Background Info
Quote:
Coming off a 2015 season where he tied for the second-most interceptions in the FBS (eight) and was named Mountain West Defensive Player of the Year (75 tackles, seven pass breakups), Kazee strongly considered entering the 2016 draft as an underclassmen. He returned to San Diego, however, to finish out his career -- and again was named the conference defender of the year and first-team all-conference pick. Kazee again tied for second in the nation with seven interceptions, breaking up eight others.


Combine/Pro Day Results
Quote:

40-yard Dash: 4.54 s
Bench Press: 11 reps
Vertical: 34"
Broad Jump: 134"


In the fourth round the Titans choose to use both picks to double up on two of their weakest positions. Kazee is a physical corner with only average speed. His effort in run-defense make him the type of player the Titans are looking for.

TLDR:
Step 1 - Underpants
Step 2 - ???
Step 3 - Super Bowl
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wit...most of it.

Corey Davis.....Yes please!
Budda Baker.....OH YEAH! Can play Nickel and S.
Adoree Jackson.....I can dig it. Electric Punt returner...needs refinement as a CB.
George Kittle.....One of my favorite guys in the draft
DeDe Westbrook.....ehhhhhhhh this is where you lose me. Not a fan. Off the field stuff. Not too impressed with how he carries himself...
Damontae Kazee.....eh. Cool. I know it's very superficial but I'd want to get a bigger corner in this draft. Two small guys in Jackson and Kazee wouldn't be ideal. But Kazee is cool. I'd pick someone else..but cool with it.

You lose my enthusiasm with Westbrook on....
I like Ryan Switzer over Westbrook


Good draft though. Great detail and work with it
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't really look into Westbrook's background a lot. The only off the field stuff I saw was from 2012 and 2013. Unless it has been an issue since and I just didn't do enough digging, I'd be willing to give a 4th round pick a chance. Switzer doesn't stretch the field vertically, which is what I was going for here. I would probably look for a pass rusher if I was to remove Westbrook.

I'm not overly worried about size in a CB. The WRs we need to worry about in our division are Hopkins at 6'1" and Hilton at 5'10". I could swap Tankersly in there, but I don't think anyone I put there is starting at an outside CB position in 2017 and Tankersly isn't playing the slot, so I think Jackson gives us a more immediate contribution . He and Kazee could both play inside or outside. Sims is 6'0" and Ryan is 5'11" and I have a feeling they top our depth chart this season. Kazee definitely isn't unseating Sims, so I think his run defense will be more appealing than someone else being two inches taller. We're not really a majority Cover 3 defense, which is what started the taller CB craze after Seattle's success.

I often get caught up on measurables as well, but if you think about it, is the 2" a 6'0" tall CB has on Adoree Jackson going to be a deciding factor in whether or not a pass is complete to a 6'2" WR? I don't think so.
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SerenityNow


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can dig it. Love the Damontae Kazee pick. He's one of my favorite mid round corners that I hope we can grab. Love Budda Baker's versatility which could be huge for us. I'm with KT in that my one complaint is every DB we drafted is undersized. I'd like to grab at least one big press corner in that first wave that can play outside and potentially develop into a #1. I'd probably take Rasul Douglas instead of Adoree Jackson in the 2nd, because I think with the other picks plus the addition of Logan Ryan, we'll have that slot CB role more than handled. Not to mention, taking size out of the equation I think Rasul Douglas is more ready to contribute day 1 at corner whereas Adoree is going to take a little bit of time to grow as he learns how to play with better technique. I love what Adoree brings to the table athletically though. Like I said, love the rest of it though. Great job.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A CB being over 6' tall has been vastly overrated since the success of the Seattle defense that is spreading across the league. Douglas may be a better pick for that scheme, but we are not a cover 3 team, we predominantly play man. Taller CBs in the cover 3 will generally have help from someone underneath in the flat. In our man scheme you're counting on Douglas to stick with a guy who sells the go route, getting him out of his backpedal, and then comes back to the QB with no one underneath in the flat.

Douglas is much better suited for a zone scheme than man. His movement skills are not spectacular. I do not see him starting on the oustide at all in year one with us, and he's not playing the slot with those feet, so someone who could play both would be able to contribute sooner.

I'm not against tall CBs altogether, but you have to consider scheme fit, and I'm not seeing any of the taller guys in this draft with the agility to do what I want. I like Tankersley over Douglas if we were solely setting out to get some size at CB.

Edit: Actually, I might take Ahkello Witherspoon.
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Last edited by TitanSS on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a scouting report on Marshon Lattimore that in the negatives section said "only average height" at 6'0" tall. A few years ago that was considered tall for a CB.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
A CB being over 6' tall has been vastly overrated since the success of the Seattle defense that is spreading across the league. Douglas may be a better pick for that scheme, but we are not a cover 3 team, we predominantly play man. Taller CBs in the cover 3 will generally have help from someone underneath in the flat. In our man scheme you're counting on Douglas to stick with a guy who sells the go route, getting him out of his backpedal, and then comes back to the QB with no one underneath in the flat.

Douglas is much better suited for a zone scheme than man. His movement skills are not spectacular. I do not see him starting on the oustide at all in year one with us, and he's not playing the slot with those feet, so someone who could play both would be able to contribute sooner.

I'm not against tall CBs altogether, but you have to consider scheme fit, and I'm not seeing any of the taller guys in this draft with the agility to do what I want. I like Tankersley over Douglas if we were solely setting out to get some size at CB.

Edit: Actually, I might take Ahkello Witherspoon.


If we're talking about getting a lengthier guy with better movement skills and versatility I'd probably take Chidobe Awuzie over Adoree. There's just zero technique to Adoree's game at this point. He relies almost solely on his athleticism, and he's going to get taken advantage of at the next level especially early on in his career. Plus I think with the way the rest of this draft shook out we'll have plenty of depth at that nickel spot. Length isn't the number one thing to look at, but it can be helpful especially when you consider we'd be adding all undersized DBs. I think Chidobe is going to be a good one though and could very well end up going by the end of the first.

I just think there's something to be said for adding players to your roster that you don't already have. In this scenario, we have 5 nickel corners on the roster between McCain, Adoree, Kazee, Baker (who will move around), and Logan Ryan who we'll probably start in the slot because he's a fantastic slot corner. Kazee and McCain are not outside corners and Adoree to me is a long shot to ever make it as an outside corner. We have our biggest question marks in the secondary at outside corner. McCourty has lost it and LeShaun Sims flashed enough to probably be our #2, but he's not someone I want to rely on fully going into the season. I'd just prefer someone that I felt better about playing outside with that 2nd round pick. Like I said in my last post, I love Adoree's athleticism, but to me he's a year away from being a year away, and I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable starting him outside in the season opener. The best case scenario with him is he'd show enough to get playing time in the slot, but even then we'd just have a log jam of nickel corners on the roster. Length isn't everything, but when the tape matches up, and we have a plethora of undersized DBs, I feel like some length is needed.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think their ideal CB is going to be the same size as Leshaun Sims, and that's my preferred size as well, 6'0" 200 lbs even. I'm just not a huge fan of 6'2" CBs outside of a cover 3 scheme. Just because we don't have something, doesn't mean we need it. It's about the scheme.

I wouldn't mind replacing Jackson, because I didn't like him at the start of the draft process in the last 1st or early 2nd, and I also think he may not fit the mold we're looking for, but my favorite CB for this slot was injured and may not play in 2017, Fabian Moreau.

Ryan didn't only play the slot. Against Houston he generally lined up across from De'Andre Hopkins with safety help over the top. In previous years he would generally take the offenses largest WR, so he is far from a slot CB, that is something they started doing with him recently. While he can play the slot, I have a pretty strong feeling Ryan will be on the outside the majority of the time.

Edit: Just saw Moreau should be back for Training Camp, so if this injury drops him to the end of the 2nd round I would easily place him in here over Jackson.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
I think their ideal CB is going to be the same size as Leshaun Sims, and that's my preferred size as well, 6'0" 200 lbs even. I'm just not a huge fan of 6'2" CBs outside of a cover 3 scheme. Just because we don't have something, doesn't mean we need it. It's about the scheme.

I wouldn't mind replacing Jackson, because I didn't like him at the start of the draft process in the last 1st or early 2nd, and I also think he may not fit the mold we're looking for, but my favorite CB for this slot was injured and may not play in 2017, Fabian Moreau.

Ryan didn't only play the slot. Against Houston he generally lined up across from De'Andre Hopkins with safety help over the top. In previous years he would generally take the offenses largest WR, so he is far from a slot CB, that is something they started doing with him recently. While he can play the slot, I have a pretty strong feeling Ryan will be on the outside the majority of the time.

Edit: Just saw Moreau should be back for Training Camp, so if this injury drops him to the end of the 2nd round I would easily place him in here over Jackson.


I thought that Ryan was struggling outside early in the season and the Pats moved him to the slot, and that's where he really started to thrive?

I love Fabian Moreau. He's one of my favorite CBs in the class as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SerenityNow wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
I think their ideal CB is going to be the same size as Leshaun Sims, and that's my preferred size as well, 6'0" 200 lbs even. I'm just not a huge fan of 6'2" CBs outside of a cover 3 scheme. Just because we don't have something, doesn't mean we need it. It's about the scheme.

I wouldn't mind replacing Jackson, because I didn't like him at the start of the draft process in the last 1st or early 2nd, and I also think he may not fit the mold we're looking for, but my favorite CB for this slot was injured and may not play in 2017, Fabian Moreau.

Ryan didn't only play the slot. Against Houston he generally lined up across from De'Andre Hopkins with safety help over the top. In previous years he would generally take the offenses largest WR, so he is far from a slot CB, that is something they started doing with him recently. While he can play the slot, I have a pretty strong feeling Ryan will be on the outside the majority of the time.

Edit: Just saw Moreau should be back for Training Camp, so if this injury drops him to the end of the 2nd round I would easily place him in here over Jackson.


I thought that Ryan was struggling outside early in the season and the Pats moved him to the slot, and that's where he really started to thrive?

I love Fabian Moreau. He's one of my favorite CBs in the class as well.


Yeah, I think I see Ryan as a guy who can play outside, but who thrived as the slot CB, and had the best stretch of his career in the second half of last season.

Ideally, we draft an outside guy who pushes Ryan inside most of our N snaps. My new favorite corner, White, can play both outside and the slot, giving us flexibility there.

A rookie could win the #2 spot behind Ryan... or it could be Sims, or even McCourty (we haven't heard the plan for him yet, but he's still on the roster, and still making 7M... ideally, they restructure him and move him to S).

As for Moreau, he could be a steal, but like Jones, a team can't go in expecting much from him this year. A torn pec usually takes 16-25 weeks... and even the best case scenario has him back on the practice field late August... that's a lot of missed offseason time for a rookie. Realistically, he's ready after the start of the season, and he's behind the curve most of the year (especially in a system like LeBeau's, who... Byard aside, has not been too friendly to rookie DBs since his days in Pitt).

I'm down with drafting draft Jones (2nd) or Moreau (3rd)... but I think we have to go in with the expectation that they won't much too much of an impact in the first year. If they do make an impact, then that's cherry...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we are deep enough throughout the roster to afford to be able to stash players or essentially give them a red-shirt year.

I like Jones, Moreau both. Along with a few others I wouldn't mind taking that have a some injuries going on....

But I just don't think we can do it. We need someone that can go right away.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan's best football was in 2015 when he was on the boundary. He had a bad start to the year and Rowe started taking snaps away from him, but he wasn't really their slot CB until late November. For what it's worth, the guy the Pats just gave 13 mil a year had an awful start to 2016 and was burned on a consistent basis.

I really doubt we see Ryan take the majority of his snaps in the slot. We didn't sign a 4 year vet to play the slot when that didn't become his home until the last two months of his career. I think he played some slot in 2013 and maybe 2014 before he became their starter.

He may see some time there, but I'd expect him to be outside almost always.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
Ryan's best football was in 2015 when he was on the boundary. He had a bad start to the year and Rowe started taking snaps away from him, but he wasn't really their slot CB until late November. For what it's worth, the guy the Pats just gave 13 mil a year had an awful start to 2016 and was burned on a consistent basis.

I really doubt we see Ryan take the majority of his snaps in the slot. We didn't sign a 4 year vet to play the slot when that didn't become his home until the last two months of his career. I think he played some slot in 2013 and maybe 2014 before he became their starter.

He may see some time there, but I'd expect him to be outside almost always.


There's nothing wrong with Ryan splitting his time at the slot. He was great in that role last year, and it's not the first time he's played it (although may be the first time it was his primary role). He played all over the field his first two seasons, with BB also considering him at S before he took over on the outside prior to 2015.

2015 was the only time he experienced success on the outside in the NFL. And he didn't just "have a bad start" on the outside last year, he was exposed, giving up stats at a Perrish Cox level.

The move to the slot last year changed him, and yes, he played the best football of his career. His speed on the outside is not his strength (and why he was usually assigned to the bigger receivers). His physicality, instincts, and smarts... as well as his strong play vs the run... points to him continuing to have great success closer to the middle of the defense.

He'll play wherever we need him. He's got flexibility to play outside and in... and I hope he does... but ultimately it will come down to what the rest of the secondary is able to do. If they need to him line up exclusively on bigger #1s like Hopkins, he can do that, wherever he lines up. If we need him to be physical against a smaller slot, he can do that too. His versatility is a strength, whey would we want to limit that exclusively to "outside" CB?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well so far I had two players right lol.... Even though I consistently changed my mind every day.
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