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TheRealMcCoy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
Aaron Donald too. Tiny arms, but he's so good with his hands he's doesn't let OL touch him.

Aaron Donald plays on the interior where length isn't as important. He also is one of the most explosive defensive linemen that we've ever seen. Barnett is average or below average in terms of explosiveness.
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Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
magross wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Barnett? Meh


This.

Poor mans version of Nick Perry. If you could get him in the mid rounds, sure, solid pick but at #14 for a guy who will have to ride the bench and only come in on situational downs, no thanks.


Barnett's one of the top DE on this draft. He'd be a starter day 1. And isn't just a situational DE.



Very average sized DE with short arms. Average athletic ability for the position. Has no moves. Just looks to me like some one waiting to get roaded graded if you leave them out there to long.


Honestly, 6'3" 260 is prototypical DE size. I know we make a huge deal about arm length on this board but I think its much more important how you use your hands. Guys like Tamba Hali and Cameron Wake had shorter arms but they made a living as a pass rusher with amazing hand work. One of top comments on almost every scouting report are how violent he is with his hands and how advanced he is with his technique.

I think the biggest thing that stuck out to me was something like 28 of his 33 sacks came against the SEC. He also did very well (and got sacks) against Ryan Ramzcyk and Cam Robinson, both probably first rounders.

Umm... 259 lbs is definitely not prototypical size. The hell you talking about?

A prototypical DE would be like 6'4" to 6'6" with long arms and weighing somewhere from 270-275 with great body composition.

And, production is overrated if its not done in a way that will consistently work at the next level and I (and B60?) question if it will. I think Barnett can be a 8 sack per year guy possibly, but I'm not trying to take that with the 14th pick.


Meh, I may be slightly off base on the size but I feel like 6'3-6'6 between 260 and 270 is typical. He may be on the smaller end of that spectrum but he's right there and i'm sure will add weight once he gets in the NFL.

I agree with you on production being overrated but I don't think it should be entirely dismissed either, getting production means you can play football. Sometimes its easier to draft a football player and make him better rather than draft the athlete and make him into a football player.

I'm not the biggest Barnett fan but I do think he can be a productive player in the league very similar to how our very own former first round pick Brandon Graham is a short armed (and shorter statured) player that has developed into a productive pass rusher.
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TheRealMcCoy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
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Location: Inland Empire
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Hockey5djh wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
magross wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Barnett? Meh


This.

Poor mans version of Nick Perry. If you could get him in the mid rounds, sure, solid pick but at #14 for a guy who will have to ride the bench and only come in on situational downs, no thanks.


Barnett's one of the top DE on this draft. He'd be a starter day 1. And isn't just a situational DE.



Very average sized DE with short arms. Average athletic ability for the position. Has no moves. Just looks to me like some one waiting to get roaded graded if you leave them out there to long.


Honestly, 6'3" 260 is prototypical DE size. I know we make a huge deal about arm length on this board but I think its much more important how you use your hands. Guys like Tamba Hali and Cameron Wake had shorter arms but they made a living as a pass rusher with amazing hand work. One of top comments on almost every scouting report are how violent he is with his hands and how advanced he is with his technique.

I think the biggest thing that stuck out to me was something like 28 of his 33 sacks came against the SEC. He also did very well (and got sacks) against Ryan Ramzcyk and Cam Robinson, both probably first rounders.

Umm... 259 lbs is definitely not prototypical size. The hell you talking about?

A prototypical DE would be like 6'4" to 6'6" with long arms and weighing somewhere from 270-275 with great body composition.

And, production is overrated if its not done in a way that will consistently work at the next level and I (and B60?) question if it will. I think Barnett can be a 8 sack per year guy possibly, but I'm not trying to take that with the 14th pick.


Meh, I may be slightly off base on the size but I feel like 6'3-6'6 between 260 and 270 is typical. He may be on the smaller end of that spectrum but he's right there and i'm sure will add weight once he gets in the NFL.

I agree with you on production being overrated but I don't think it should be entirely dismissed either, getting production means you can play football. Sometimes its easier to draft a football player and make him better rather than draft the athlete and make him into a football player.

I'm not the biggest Barnett fan but I do think he can be a productive player in the league very similar to how our very own former first round pick Brandon Graham is a short armed (and shorter statured) player that has developed into a productive pass rusher.

I never said his size isn't okay to hold up as a 4-3 DE, but it isn't really the prototypical size.

I get the Graham comparison to an extent, but I think Carl Lawson is more like Graham.

Quote:
Derek Barnett

Height: 6'2.5"
Weight: 259 lbs
Arm Length: 32.125"

Bench: 20 reps

40 yard: 4.88
10 yard: 1.69
Vertical: 31"
Broad: 9'08"
Shuttle: 4.44
3 Cone: 7.12


Quote:
Brandon Graham

Height: 6'1.3"
Weight: 268 lbs
Arm Length: 32.25"

Bench: 31 reps

40 yard: 4.72
10 yard: 1.65
Vertical: 31.5"
Broad: 9'03"
Shuttle: 4.25
3 Cone: 7.01


In addition to being stronger, Graham is clearly faster and that was while weighing almost 10 lbs more.

What would Barnett run if he was bulked up close to 270? Maybe a 5 flat?
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the Graham comparison as a familiar short armed first round pick that could still be a productive end. That's probably where the comparisons stop. Graham has a non stop motor and a great first step, Barnett has a much better bend around the outside and better hand usage.
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TheRealMcCoy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
I used the Graham comparison as a familiar short armed first round pick that could still be a productive end. That's probably where the comparisons stop. Graham has a non stop motor and a great first step, Barnett has a much better bend around the outside and better hand usage.

I thought Graham was known for pretty good hand usage coming out?

I also think Barnett's bend is overrated. Don't think he's as good at it as people claim he is.
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you prefer Harris TRM? A lot of smoke on that fire the past few days
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MemphisEagles


Joined: 11 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barnett doesn't have a high ceiling imo. Not worth it when DE isn't our biggest need, even it is a need.
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TheRealMcCoy


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninjapirate wrote:
Would you prefer Harris TRM? A lot of smoke on that fire the past few days

Yeah, I know a lot wouldn't agree, but I think Harris has more potential as a pass rusher. Barnett might be the safer choice though? I wouldn't fault anyone who said they would take Barnett over him. Both would benefit from being in a wide 9 where they can use their strengths to their advantage. Barnett is really good at timing the snap to help him get around the edge and Harris has his good first step to do the same. Harris has more tools in his bag as a pass rusher, but isn't as good against the run as Barnett. Both of them I think would benefit from not having to step in and immediately be the starter and that would be the case here as they would battle for snaps as there are veterans like Graham, Curry, and Long that will get a lot of the snaps. I actually was taking Harris in the 2nd round when he fell in the FanSpeak draft simulator like a week or so ago before I realized that he was gonna go higher than I or anyone expected.

With that said, I'd prefer to go elsewhere at 14. I could definitely see both of them not living up to the pick.
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Last edited by TheRealMcCoy on Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheRealMcCoy


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MemphisEagles wrote:
Barnett doesn't have a high ceiling imo. Not worth it when DE isn't our biggest need, even it is a need.

I think he'll be off the board before we pick. The Bengals supposedly like him a lot.
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MemphisEagles


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Harris is more boom or bust than Barnett. I would take the risk though, but neither his my first choice at all.
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fly eagles fly


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it, if we choose to go with a pass rusher in the first. I don't see anything special about Harris, so I'd prefer Barnett far more. My only concern is that neither corner will really contribute in year one.
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