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2017 Draft Thread Pt. 2
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Chewtoy


Joined: 16 Aug 2014
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TB 1 wrote:


Football has become a much more pass happy game in the last 20-25 years. It is much easier to pass the ball in both college and the NFL. Especially with the quick pace offense which tires defense's out at the college level. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where Watson get's drafted because he will get his chance to show that he is a good NFL QB.


The evolution of football certainly explains the cumulative stats, but it doesn't really explain the efficiency stats. Watson's completion percentage, td/int ratio, and qb rating are all comparable, and I don't belive that can be easily explained by an increase in pass volume (in fact, you might expect efficiency to decrease with volume...)
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19907
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:

https://youtu.be/-Z1fQPpUMMQ?t=86

That's 46 yards in the air, getting crushed, and he drops it in a bucket.


etc etc etc
He couldn't place that better if he ran down the field and handed it to him. That was a 46 yard handoff, unreal.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/77kgGVvlEAQ?t=88

60 yards in the air
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16531
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mitchell Trubisky - QB - Tar Heels
Yahoo Sports' Charles Robinson has heard from "adamant" evaluators over the last week that the Browns, 49ers, Bears and Bills are targeting UNC QB Mitchell Trubisky.
These are all usual suspects when it comes to Trubisky. Breaking them down, we would be surprised to see Trubisky at No. 1 to Cleveland, but No. 2 to the 49ers wouldn't completely shock -- though San Francisco is reportedly looking to trade down from No. 2. There has been less talk of Trubisky to the Bears and considerably more about Deshaun Watson to the Bills. Expect to hear plenty more adamant evaluators over the next week. Then, showtime.

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3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 3309
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsfan323 wrote:
Chewtoy wrote:
Something feels off about the Watson situation.

- It seems to me that he has all of the intangibles - EVERYONE seems to agree he is a leader and a competitor.
- He clearly has experience. 38 starts is a fair amount of experience, WAY more than Trub, etc.
- He clearly has production. 10000+ yards, 90 TDs, Qb rating over 150
- He's a winner. 33-5 as a starter, with a national title to his name.


So, given all of that, why are teams not falling all over themselves to draft this guy? Is it just the arm strength? I mean that is probably a legit shortcoming. Is it the offense? Is it the INT's? He's got a 3:1 TD/INT ratio, pretty much identical to Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. I mean, its not a race thing, is it?

I'll be the first to say I'm no scout. This is an honest, sincere question so if someone has an answer, please help me: Why is Deshawn Watson not a "generational" talent?

Never under center, not a large guy, somewhat inaccurate


That isn't an issue to me. 20 years ago it sent alarms off in most front offices, but last year I believe only 4 teams were in shotgun LESS than 50% of the time. Clearly quality of footwork is a concern for most though, Mahomes' feet are a mess in shotgun, so many feel his feet under center would be wildly off. Trubisky has some odd but efficient footwork, much like Rodgers was known for while coming out of CAL. While Watson doesn't have incredibly polished feet, he is plenty proficient and had plus athleticism to hide some of the missteps he may make.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13187
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
bearsfan323 wrote:
Chewtoy wrote:
Something feels off about the Watson situation.

- It seems to me that he has all of the intangibles - EVERYONE seems to agree he is a leader and a competitor.
- He clearly has experience. 38 starts is a fair amount of experience, WAY more than Trub, etc.
- He clearly has production. 10000+ yards, 90 TDs, Qb rating over 150
- He's a winner. 33-5 as a starter, with a national title to his name.


So, given all of that, why are teams not falling all over themselves to draft this guy? Is it just the arm strength? I mean that is probably a legit shortcoming. Is it the offense? Is it the INT's? He's got a 3:1 TD/INT ratio, pretty much identical to Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. I mean, its not a race thing, is it?

I'll be the first to say I'm no scout. This is an honest, sincere question so if someone has an answer, please help me: Why is Deshawn Watson not a "generational" talent?

Never under center, not a large guy, somewhat inaccurate


That isn't an issue to me. 20 years ago it sent alarms off in most front offices, but last year I believe only 4 teams were in shotgun LESS than 50% of the time. Clearly quality of footwork is a concern for most though, Mahomes' feet are a mess in shotgun, so many feel his feet under center would be wildly off. Trubisky has some odd but efficient footwork, much like Rodgers was known for while coming out of CAL. While Watson doesn't have incredibly polished feet, he is plenty proficient and had plus athleticism to hide some of the missteps he may make.

Does anyone have cut ups of Watson's footwork when he is NOT running a zone-read play? That's not an NFL play (or at least a seldom used one) and by design the QB in a zone-read play is posturing as a runner on purpose (since it sells the fake or positions him to run if he keeps) and not setting up to throw. A quick throw coming from a ZR keep is almost always going to have lousy or at least rushed passer footwork. How Watson's feet are on non-ZR plays should be far more indicative of what we should expect to see as a professional QB.
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bearsfan323


Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 2707
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
bearsfan323 wrote:
Chewtoy wrote:
Something feels off about the Watson situation.

- It seems to me that he has all of the intangibles - EVERYONE seems to agree he is a leader and a competitor.
- He clearly has experience. 38 starts is a fair amount of experience, WAY more than Trub, etc.
- He clearly has production. 10000+ yards, 90 TDs, Qb rating over 150
- He's a winner. 33-5 as a starter, with a national title to his name.


So, given all of that, why are teams not falling all over themselves to draft this guy? Is it just the arm strength? I mean that is probably a legit shortcoming. Is it the offense? Is it the INT's? He's got a 3:1 TD/INT ratio, pretty much identical to Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. I mean, its not a race thing, is it?

I'll be the first to say I'm no scout. This is an honest, sincere question so if someone has an answer, please help me: Why is Deshawn Watson not a "generational" talent?

Never under center, not a large guy, somewhat inaccurate


That isn't an issue to me. 20 years ago it sent alarms off in most front offices, but last year I believe only 4 teams were in shotgun LESS than 50% of the time. Clearly quality of footwork is a concern for most though, Mahomes' feet are a mess in shotgun, so many feel his feet under center would be wildly off. Trubisky has some odd but efficient footwork, much like Rodgers was known for while coming out of CAL. While Watson doesn't have incredibly polished feet, he is plenty proficient and had plus athleticism to hide some of the missteps he may make.

I like Watson, but he asked and I'm telling him. I've heard that in reports
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Chewtoy


Joined: 16 Aug 2014
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really get the "not a large guy" comments either. According to this site:

http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/page/show/292837-nfl-player-specs

The average Qb is 6' 2", 215 lbs, with 9" hands (while running a 4.9 40 yard dash).

At the combine Watson measured 6' 2.5", 221 lbs, with 9.75" hands (while running a 4.7).

None of those measurements are stunning or extraordinary, but ALL of them are above average for the position.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6916
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chewtoy wrote:
I don't really get the "not a large guy" comments either. According to this site:

http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/page/show/292837-nfl-player-specs

The average Qb is 6' 2", 215 lbs, with 9" hands (while running a 4.9 40 yard dash).

At the combine Watson measured 6' 2.5", 221 lbs, with 9.75" hands (while running a 4.7).

None of those measurements are stunning or extraordinary, but ALL of them are above average for the position.


He's right around the same size/athleticism as Carr and Rodgers. Those are my prototypical QBs in today's game.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 8306
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
https://youtu.be/77kgGVvlEAQ?t=88

60 yards in the air

Why does every highlight video have to be set to awful rap music? Come on, people can't use some classic Snoop/Dre/Pac?

I want a DeShaun Watson nightlight video set to All Eyez on Me.
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Rotoworld.com wrote:
...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 8306
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, good luck getting the knuckle-draggers of this city to correctly spell "DeShaun" if they draft him.

Alshon Jeffries.
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Rotoworld.com wrote:
...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6916
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
G08 wrote:
https://youtu.be/77kgGVvlEAQ?t=88

60 yards in the air

Why does every highlight video have to be set to awful rap music? Come on, people can't use some classic Snoop/Dre/Pac?

I want a DeShaun Watson nightlight video set to All Eyez on Me.



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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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Tyty


Joined: 05 Sep 2015
Posts: 5469
Location: do what you want ea I'm not your mother
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be absolutely stoked if we did this:

1-either Deshaun Watson/Johnathan Allen/Reuben Foster
2-Jabrill Peppers
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7792
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyty wrote:
I'd be absolutely stoked if we did this:

1-either Deshaun Watson/Johnathan Allen/Reuben Foster
2-Jabrill Peppers


I think its very unlikely we see Foster drafted by the Bears that high. He failed his combine drug test and he might need another shoulder surgery before the season starts.

As for Peppers, I'd love that but I also doubt he makes it to the 2nd where the Bears are picking.
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Tyty


Joined: 05 Sep 2015
Posts: 5469
Location: do what you want ea I'm not your mother
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Tyty wrote:
I'd be absolutely stoked if we did this:

1-either Deshaun Watson/Johnathan Allen/Reuben Foster
2-Jabrill Peppers


I think its very unlikely we see Foster drafted by the Bears that high. He failed his combine drug test and he might need another shoulder surgery before the season starts.

As for Peppers, I'd love that but I also doubt he makes it to the 2nd where the Bears are picking.


Ahh I wasn't aware of the stuff w Foster. All I know about him is what I saw on his tape lol

And I feel like we might have to trade up but then again there are two safeties going before him and maybe even a third safety. Well see
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