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Joshua Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
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Iamcanadian


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prescott plays behind the best OL in pro football and has an All Pro RB to carry a huge load. I serious doubt Dobbs can come close to being that productive as a pro. After all, this is a relatively weak QB class and he isn't even listed on Mayock top 5.

At best he is a 3rd or 4th round talent who might get pushed up because of the position he plays, but unless he's the reincarnation of Tom Brady, I cannot see a bright future for him.
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Groink


Joined: 30 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
inverted knee wasnt RGIIIs issue tho. Him taking that hit against the ravens on his knee ruined the integrity of his knee with the bad field just finishing it off. inverted knees was never the issue for RGIII. If it was he would of had more issues in college.

Are there any more examples of inverted knee actually being a concern?
Huh? He blew out his ACL his sophomore year.

Google knee valgus, there is plenty of information showing that people with this condition are extremely susceptible to knee issues and/or major injury.
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VanS


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 308
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iamcanadian wrote:
Prescott plays behind the best OL in pro football and has an All Pro RB to carry a huge load. I serious doubt Dobbs can come close to being that productive as a pro. After all, this is a relatively weak QB class and he isn't even listed on Mayock top 5.

At best he is a 3rd or 4th round talent who might get pushed up because of the position he plays, but unless he's the reincarnation of Tom Brady, I cannot see a bright future for him.


He's actually the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham. Similar size, athleticism, and skill set. But with better intangibles. That's why I'm so high on him. He probably won't have as much success as Dak early on but I believe he has a higher ceiling long-term because he's more physically talented.

Tom Brady is the most famous example, but there are tons of players that perform better in the NFL than they did in college every year. Terrell Davis never rushed for more than 824 yards in college yet he became a 2,000 yard rusher in the NFL and a Hall of Fame RB. JJ Watt never had more than 7 sacks in a season at Wisconsin yet he's already had two 20+ sack seasons in the NFL (and another year with 17.5 sacks). If I said before the 2011 draft that JJ Watt would be one of the most prolific sack masters in NFL history I'm sure I'd be laughed at considering his production in college.

Perceived success in college is irrelevant to pro success. Every year we see guys who perform better in the NFL than they did in college. That is why there are always steals and busts in every NFL draft.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Groink wrote:
buno67 wrote:
inverted knee wasnt RGIIIs issue tho. Him taking that hit against the ravens on his knee ruined the integrity of his knee with the bad field just finishing it off. inverted knees was never the issue for RGIII. If it was he would of had more issues in college.

Are there any more examples of inverted knee actually being a concern?
Huh? He blew out his ACL his sophomore year.

Google knee valgus, there is plenty of information showing that people with this condition are extremely susceptible to knee issues and/or major injury.


Again his college injury was from a hit. His injuries weren't due to this knee inversion.
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 11351
Location: WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Groink wrote:
buno67 wrote:
inverted knee wasnt RGIIIs issue tho. Him taking that hit against the ravens on his knee ruined the integrity of his knee with the bad field just finishing it off. inverted knees was never the issue for RGIII. If it was he would of had more issues in college.

Are there any more examples of inverted knee actually being a concern?
Huh? He blew out his ACL his sophomore year.

Google knee valgus, there is plenty of information showing that people with this condition are extremely susceptible to knee issues and/or major injury.


Again his college injury was from a hit. His injuries weren't due to this knee inversion.

How does his injury being from a hit totally eliminate his knee inversion being a contributing factor? I don't understand that at all.
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 11351
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
I'm sorry Calhoun if you could please give me evidence of these refracted knees I'd appreciate it. Or recalcitrated, or whatever.

My great uncle is a Packers Hall of Famer and his son also played in the NFL. So our family has some old NFL connections. One of them being a family friend who was in NFL front offices for over 20 years. He recently retired. He turned me on to knee inversion being an issue a few years ago. So I don't have a long list of players who had the issue. But I know it's something NFL scouts take note of. It's something Nolan Nawrocki noted for years but I never paid any attention to it. Now I pay much more attention to inverted knees. It's not very common.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VanS wrote:
Iamcanadian wrote:
Prescott plays behind the best OL in pro football and has an All Pro RB to carry a huge load. I serious doubt Dobbs can come close to being that productive as a pro. After all, this is a relatively weak QB class and he isn't even listed on Mayock top 5.

At best he is a 3rd or 4th round talent who might get pushed up because of the position he plays, but unless he's the reincarnation of Tom Brady, I cannot see a bright future for him.


He's actually the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham. Similar size, athleticism, and skill set. But with better intangibles. That's why I'm so high on him. He probably won't have as much success as Dak early on but I believe he has a higher ceiling long-term because he's more physically talented.

Tom Brady is the most famous example, but there are tons of players that perform better in the NFL than they did in college every year. Terrell Davis never rushed for more than 824 yards in college yet he became a 2,000 yard rusher in the NFL and a Hall of Fame RB. JJ Watt never had more than 7 sacks in a season at Wisconsin yet he's already had two 20+ sack seasons in the NFL (and another year with 17.5 sacks). If I said before the 2011 draft that JJ Watt would be one of the most prolific sack masters in NFL history I'm sure I'd be laughed at considering his production in college.

Perceived success in college is irrelevant to pro success. Every year we see guys who perform better in the NFL than they did in college. That is why there are always steals and busts in every NFL draft.


I see more Quincy Carter/Aaron Brooks than Randall Cunningham
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3027
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalhounLambeau wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
I'm sorry Calhoun if you could please give me evidence of these refracted knees I'd appreciate it. Or recalcitrated, or whatever.

My great uncle is a Packers Hall of Famer and his son also played in the NFL. So our family has some old NFL connections. One of them being a family friend who was in NFL front offices for over 20 years. He recently retired. He turned me on to knee inversion being an issue a few years ago. So I don't have a long list of players who had the issue. But I know it's something NFL scouts take note of. It's something Nolan Nawrocki noted for years but I never paid any attention to it. Now I pay much more attention to inverted knees. It's not very common.


RGIII is a terrible example as a poster child for this issue because his total lack of pocket awareness, and his refusal to minimize or avoid contact. It's why everyone always points to those to those 2 traits to explain his knee injuries. Which is absolutely correct. RGIII is his worst enemy. He invites danger.

But, the entity to which Calhoun refers to is very real. There's just a different medical term than knee inversion as Groink alluded to - it's called valgus stress. To be completely transparent, knee inversion isn't the driver for injury - it's the end result of a complex cascade of mechanical dysfunction (or, maybe we weren't supposed to do these activities, too). There are 4 biomechanical factors which when a person loads their legs and core on landing, which lead to knee inversion. They include ligament dominance, quad dominance & function, leg dominance & function, core dominance & function. When they don't function in perfect sync, for some people, their knees invert on weight bearing movements - and you see the knee inversion. The knee inversion is a clear sign that the body is distributing weight unevenly during high-stress movements - it's OK when you stand or walk, but land that way with 3-4x your body weight (or get someone to hit you in that position), and there's a big risk. But as we all know, it's the dreaded non-contact injury where no external contact occurs - it's because of those 4 elements leading to too much valgus stress, beyond what an ACL can cope with, and then...boom.

If you Google "valgus stress ACL injury", the biomechanical explanations become readily available - if not necessarily readable (LOL). It's been long recognized that valgus stress is a major risk factor in predicting athletic injury risk with ACL/MCL's.

There isn't a great layman's article - but there is a commonly referenced foundation medical article here. Good luck if you have no medical background, but it confirms what Calhoun is referring to
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096145/'
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4003572/ (the 2nd study which is easier to read...but still very loaded with medical terms - but clearly shows that addressing valgus is a key to preventing ACL injury)

And unlike Dr. Google sites or blogs, it's entirely based on empiric medical science, and studies, and not from one-off stories. If it's NIH, or Mayo clinic, or Cleveland Clinic sites, or other well established sites, you know they will be providing info off huge numbers and multiple studies over time, so it's well researched (sadly, unless it's a patient targeted website, it's not always an easy read).

So knee inversion (or valgus) isn't the cause - but it's the end result, and yes, it's a huge risk factor for ACL injury. Ironically, it's even more common in women...that's what led to the discovery, because you see a lot more valgus stress with women than men, and ACL injuries are more commonplace with women overall than men, so people started to look at the potential link.

Here's a layman's site that's not bad in cutting out the terminology, but not oversimplifying the issue - https://www.yourmovementsolutions.com/prevent-acl-injuries/

OK, sorry to have bored you all, but rather than go in circles on this issue, figured that would help. Hope it wasn't a knee buckler. Laughing

EDIT: How does this relate to Dobbs? If the knee inversion (valgus) is significant, then he should try and build core/quad strength to rebalance the 4 components. Otherwise, the high level of competition and games played at breakneck speeds by itself is a big risk factor (because of the speed and impact involved on games, than say practice), and ideally he doesn't go to a team that uses turf (fortunately those are few and far between, but the risk is increased 2x, albeit with SSS studies). On the positive side, you can actually reduce your risk by addressing this issue - the key is if this will actually happen, given the number of areas that a young QB will have to learn and adapt to going to the NFL, this could easily be set aside for higher priorities.
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Last edited by Broncofan on Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dobbs has that prototypical Teddy Bridgewater QB frame.
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 11351
Location: WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Dobbs has that prototypical Teddy Bridgewater QB frame.

In the NFL Gen board after he got drafted I called him "Teddy Ankles" in reference to his skinny ankles and I got mocked for it. Smile
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
Posts: 10210
Location: JetLife Stadium
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
VanS wrote:
Iamcanadian wrote:
Prescott plays behind the best OL in pro football and has an All Pro RB to carry a huge load. I serious doubt Dobbs can come close to being that productive as a pro. After all, this is a relatively weak QB class and he isn't even listed on Mayock top 5.

At best he is a 3rd or 4th round talent who might get pushed up because of the position he plays, but unless he's the reincarnation of Tom Brady, I cannot see a bright future for him.


He's actually the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham. Similar size, athleticism, and skill set. But with better intangibles. That's why I'm so high on him. He probably won't have as much success as Dak early on but I believe he has a higher ceiling long-term because he's more physically talented.

Tom Brady is the most famous example, but there are tons of players that perform better in the NFL than they did in college every year. Terrell Davis never rushed for more than 824 yards in college yet he became a 2,000 yard rusher in the NFL and a Hall of Fame RB. JJ Watt never had more than 7 sacks in a season at Wisconsin yet he's already had two 20+ sack seasons in the NFL (and another year with 17.5 sacks). If I said before the 2011 draft that JJ Watt would be one of the most prolific sack masters in NFL history I'm sure I'd be laughed at considering his production in college.

Perceived success in college is irrelevant to pro success. Every year we see guys who perform better in the NFL than they did in college. That is why there are always steals and busts in every NFL draft.


I see more Quincy Carter/Aaron Brooks than Randall Cunningham


Hey Nolan!!!!
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DudeWhat??


Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that his name will be Jousha Dobbstrich ....He is automatically a first round pick.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2456
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
VanS wrote:
Iamcanadian wrote:
Prescott plays behind the best OL in pro football and has an All Pro RB to carry a huge load. I serious doubt Dobbs can come close to being that productive as a pro. After all, this is a relatively weak QB class and he isn't even listed on Mayock top 5.

At best he is a 3rd or 4th round talent who might get pushed up because of the position he plays, but unless he's the reincarnation of Tom Brady, I cannot see a bright future for him.


He's actually the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham. Similar size, athleticism, and skill set. But with better intangibles. That's why I'm so high on him. He probably won't have as much success as Dak early on but I believe he has a higher ceiling long-term because he's more physically talented.

Tom Brady is the most famous example, but there are tons of players that perform better in the NFL than they did in college every year. Terrell Davis never rushed for more than 824 yards in college yet he became a 2,000 yard rusher in the NFL and a Hall of Fame RB. JJ Watt never had more than 7 sacks in a season at Wisconsin yet he's already had two 20+ sack seasons in the NFL (and another year with 17.5 sacks). If I said before the 2011 draft that JJ Watt would be one of the most prolific sack masters in NFL history I'm sure I'd be laughed at considering his production in college.

Perceived success in college is irrelevant to pro success. Every year we see guys who perform better in the NFL than they did in college. That is why there are always steals and busts in every NFL draft.


I see more Quincy Carter/Aaron Brooks than Randall Cunningham


Hey Nolan!!!!


Lol did I miss a reference or something?
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VanS


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 308
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
VanS wrote:
Iamcanadian wrote:
Prescott plays behind the best OL in pro football and has an All Pro RB to carry a huge load. I serious doubt Dobbs can come close to being that productive as a pro. After all, this is a relatively weak QB class and he isn't even listed on Mayock top 5.

At best he is a 3rd or 4th round talent who might get pushed up because of the position he plays, but unless he's the reincarnation of Tom Brady, I cannot see a bright future for him.


He's actually the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham. Similar size, athleticism, and skill set. But with better intangibles. That's why I'm so high on him. He probably won't have as much success as Dak early on but I believe he has a higher ceiling long-term because he's more physically talented.

Tom Brady is the most famous example, but there are tons of players that perform better in the NFL than they did in college every year. Terrell Davis never rushed for more than 824 yards in college yet he became a 2,000 yard rusher in the NFL and a Hall of Fame RB. JJ Watt never had more than 7 sacks in a season at Wisconsin yet he's already had two 20+ sack seasons in the NFL (and another year with 17.5 sacks). If I said before the 2011 draft that JJ Watt would be one of the most prolific sack masters in NFL history I'm sure I'd be laughed at considering his production in college.

Perceived success in college is irrelevant to pro success. Every year we see guys who perform better in the NFL than they did in college. That is why there are always steals and busts in every NFL draft.


I see more Quincy Carter/Aaron Brooks than Randall Cunningham


LOL. I guess we'll see who is right. I'll just put it this way. I'm more confident in Josh Dobbs succeeding in the NFL than almost any other player in this draft. He's just got the ideal mental makeup for what leads to success at the next level.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VanS wrote:
LOL. I guess we'll see who is right. I'll just put it this way. I'm more confident in Josh Dobbs succeeding in the NFL than almost any other player in this draft. He's just got the ideal mental makeup for what leads to success at the next level.


Can we quantify this statement? I'm probably starting a pointless argument, but this seems a bit hard to believe.
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