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NickChowaniec


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5773
Location: Buffalo
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bills meeting with Deshaun Watson on Friday.
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Billsfaninptown


Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
leeevans83d wrote:
NickChowaniec wrote:
cdavls17 said it nicely.

While losing Gillislee sucks, because trust me, I loved having him, I think calling it a big hole is an overreaction. Losing him to the Patriots of all teams gets a lot of fans thinking irrationally.

Just a few years ago we had Karlos Williams, lost him, many panicked, and we filled that hole rather easily. Even as far back as Travis Henry - Willis McGahee backed him up... followed that up with Marshawn Lynch & Fred Jackson, then CJ Spiller entered the picture and you know the rest. We never seem to have trouble getting that RB position filled. In fact, we often have too many guys there.

We have Shady, so it's not a big hole to fill. We have Jonathan Williams (hopefully he improves), Mike Toldozer and will probably sign or draft another guy. I trust our staff to get us a quality RB above all other positions.

As mentioned, 4 million is too much to give to a backup RB.


But then it's $2 million the next year for a (potentially) bigger workload.


Leeevans83d its not about the 2 mil next year its about the fact the bills only have 10.8 million left in cap space so to pay that additional 2.2 million that is due on him will put them down to 8.6 mil with 6 of it going to the 6 draft picks. Which then means the bills are down to 2.6 mil to offer to 15 UDFA and FA to fill the 90 roster spots that are needed. It is just not financially there. Especially when you have guys who will be FA next year Watkins, Wood, Kyle Willliams, Preston Brown. All those guys will be making new holes if they cant extend them. So is it worth paying 6 mil to a back up rb who was only on the time 1 year and the team has shown that back up rbs have been capable of standing up in the past to fill that hole? I dont think so.

My biggest gripe with the whole situation is that we didn't put the 2nd round tender on him for 700,000 more. So if we had 10.8 million in cap space we would be down to 10.1 million roughly. I would rather spend the extra 700,000 on Gillislee than a fringe roster guy or camp body. If someone wanted to sign him and give us a 2nd round pick then I would say hell no we shouldn't match and take a 2nd round pick. We put ourselves in a vulnerable situation by only putting the original round tender on him.
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leeevans83d


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 2776
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billsfaninptown wrote:
cdavls17 wrote:
leeevans83d wrote:
NickChowaniec wrote:
cdavls17 said it nicely.

While losing Gillislee sucks, because trust me, I loved having him, I think calling it a big hole is an overreaction. Losing him to the Patriots of all teams gets a lot of fans thinking irrationally.

Just a few years ago we had Karlos Williams, lost him, many panicked, and we filled that hole rather easily. Even as far back as Travis Henry - Willis McGahee backed him up... followed that up with Marshawn Lynch & Fred Jackson, then CJ Spiller entered the picture and you know the rest. We never seem to have trouble getting that RB position filled. In fact, we often have too many guys there.

We have Shady, so it's not a big hole to fill. We have Jonathan Williams (hopefully he improves), Mike Toldozer and will probably sign or draft another guy. I trust our staff to get us a quality RB above all other positions.

As mentioned, 4 million is too much to give to a backup RB.


But then it's $2 million the next year for a (potentially) bigger workload.


Leeevans83d its not about the 2 mil next year its about the fact the bills only have 10.8 million left in cap space so to pay that additional 2.2 million that is due on him will put them down to 8.6 mil with 6 of it going to the 6 draft picks. Which then means the bills are down to 2.6 mil to offer to 15 UDFA and FA to fill the 90 roster spots that are needed. It is just not financially there. Especially when you have guys who will be FA next year Watkins, Wood, Kyle Willliams, Preston Brown. All those guys will be making new holes if they cant extend them. So is it worth paying 6 mil to a back up rb who was only on the time 1 year and the team has shown that back up rbs have been capable of standing up in the past to fill that hole? I dont think so.

My biggest gripe with the whole situation is that we didn't put the 2nd round tender on him for 700,000 more. So if we had 10.8 million in cap space we would be down to 10.1 million roughly. I would rather spend the extra 700,000 on Gillislee than a fringe roster guy or camp body. If someone wanted to sign him and give us a 2nd round pick then I would say hell no we shouldn't match and take a 2nd round pick. We put ourselves in a vulnerable situation by only putting the original round tender on him.


I agree on that one. But cdavis17 my point was that we're all acting like he's being paid $4 million both years. Was just pointing out that next year, we'd be getting a hell of a bargain at $2 million.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 3293
Location: Redding, CA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billsfaninptown wrote:
cdavls17 wrote:
leeevans83d wrote:
NickChowaniec wrote:
cdavls17 said it nicely.

While losing Gillislee sucks, because trust me, I loved having him, I think calling it a big hole is an overreaction. Losing him to the Patriots of all teams gets a lot of fans thinking irrationally.

Just a few years ago we had Karlos Williams, lost him, many panicked, and we filled that hole rather easily. Even as far back as Travis Henry - Willis McGahee backed him up... followed that up with Marshawn Lynch & Fred Jackson, then CJ Spiller entered the picture and you know the rest. We never seem to have trouble getting that RB position filled. In fact, we often have too many guys there.

We have Shady, so it's not a big hole to fill. We have Jonathan Williams (hopefully he improves), Mike Toldozer and will probably sign or draft another guy. I trust our staff to get us a quality RB above all other positions.

As mentioned, 4 million is too much to give to a backup RB.


But then it's $2 million the next year for a (potentially) bigger workload.


Leeevans83d its not about the 2 mil next year its about the fact the bills only have 10.8 million left in cap space so to pay that additional 2.2 million that is due on him will put them down to 8.6 mil with 6 of it going to the 6 draft picks. Which then means the bills are down to 2.6 mil to offer to 15 UDFA and FA to fill the 90 roster spots that are needed. It is just not financially there. Especially when you have guys who will be FA next year Watkins, Wood, Kyle Willliams, Preston Brown. All those guys will be making new holes if they cant extend them. So is it worth paying 6 mil to a back up rb who was only on the time 1 year and the team has shown that back up rbs have been capable of standing up in the past to fill that hole? I dont think so.

My biggest gripe with the whole situation is that we didn't put the 2nd round tender on him for 700,000 more. So if we had 10.8 million in cap space we would be down to 10.1 million roughly. I would rather spend the extra 700,000 on Gillislee than a fringe roster guy or camp body. If someone wanted to sign him and give us a 2nd round pick then I would say hell no we shouldn't match and take a 2nd round pick. We put ourselves in a vulnerable situation by only putting the original round tender on him.

This link puts the blame for NE's 2nd sniping in a row of a quality player on Overdorf.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/19/analysis-mike-gillislee-dilemma-starts-jim-overdorfs-mismanagement-salary-cap/

The only thing I see from all these Gillislee posts that I don't necessarily agree with is the label of "backup". I think it is very realistic that Shady will go down again and we'll need someone to step up. It also wouldn't surprise me if McCoy was injured over 1/2 the season...there's a lot of mileage on those tires. Frankly, due to our fairly ugly salary cap and my desire to trade up next year, I'd put Shady on the trading block. It'd make a lot of fans angry, but I think it would benefit us in the long term.
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cdavls17


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha that a bit of exaggeration already calling him being injured and out for half the season typical knee jerk reaction. Gillislee is a backup because he cant handle a full workload. He has had at most 15 carries in a game against an opponent and that was against the jets at the end of the year where he averaged 2 yds a game. He was cut from the dolphins and he was on the bills p-squad. The bills have shown in the past backups can come in and make a name for themselves. Gillislee is a product of the bills and not the other way around. He had a decent season with 500 yards and volturing 6 of the 8 td from shady at the goal line insert tolbert there to take his spot on the goal line. Get another rb in FA or draft that can run the ball for 500-600 yards and average 10-12 carries a game. Most of gillislees yards come off of one play every game which is great but other then that he is usually average at best that is why he is a backup and will never be the work horse for a team like shady is for the bills.Trading Shady gets you nothing unless your in the rebuild mode and the bills are not as they retained Tyrod. Talked Kyle Williams out of retiring and extending Alexander. If the bills were to rebuild they would have let all 3 go and spent the money on younger with lesser talent.


Yes I agree it is definitely Orodolfs fault for not getting a deal done and not setting it up to where they can retain players. Years after years of him being there is partly why the bills are in a playoff drought. Another huge debacle was his contract with marrone paying him and allowing him to leave too was a huge disaster even if fans and players didnt like the guy. I think the pegulas are never going to be a full contender until they clean house in the front office where this guy goes a few others including Russ Brandon. GMs and Coaches have come and gone over the past 20 years but the front office people have been around for that long and are clearly not doing their jobs.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
Hahaha that a bit of exaggeration already calling him being injured and out for half the season typical knee jerk reaction. Gillislee is a backup because he cant handle a full workload. He has had at most 15 carries in a game against an opponent and that was against the jets at the end of the year where he averaged 2 yds a game. He was cut from the dolphins and he was on the bills p-squad. The bills have shown in the past backups can come in and make a name for themselves. Gillislee is a product of the bills and not the other way around. He had a decent season with 500 yards and volturing 6 of the 8 td from shady at the goal line insert tolbert there to take his spot on the goal line. Get another rb in FA or draft that can run the ball for 500-600 yards and average 10-12 carries a game. Most of gillislees yards come off of one play every game which is great but other then that he is usually average at best that is why he is a backup and will never be the work horse for a team like shady is for the bills.Trading Shady gets you nothing unless your in the rebuild mode and the bills are not as they retained Tyrod. Talked Kyle Williams out of retiring and extending Alexander. If the bills were to rebuild they would have let all 3 go and spent the money on younger with lesser talent.


Yes I agree it is definitely Orodolfs fault for not getting a deal done and not setting it up to where they can retain players. Years after years of him being there is partly why the bills are in a playoff drought. Another huge debacle was his contract with marrone paying him and allowing him to leave too was a huge disaster even if fans and players didnt like the guy. I think the pegulas are never going to be a full contender until they clean house in the front office where this guy goes a few others including Russ Brandon. GMs and Coaches have come and gone over the past 20 years but the front office people have been around for that long and are clearly not doing their jobs.

I actually hope you are right about Gillislee as it would soften the blow to see the Pats pay him that much cash only to see him be a scrub. Personally though, when I saw him run, I saw a guy who makes quick decisions and takes what's there. Then, at the end of the run, when he goes down, he is almost always falling forward. Poor performance vs the Jets? Yes, and against a D that averaged less than 100 yds rushing per game all season and the incredibly intimidating team of Cardale Jones & EJ Manual playing at QB for us! And if any back-up could look good behind our O-line, then that must be why Jonathan Williams racked up that awesome 2.8 per carry that game! Maybe they both were less a product of the Bills run game and more a victim of the Jets' D not respecting the passing attack with Taylor sitting.

Definitely agree that the Bills are not in re-building mode, I just stated that that was what I would do regarding Shady. At this stage in his career, with this mix of players, and now with this schedule, I just think trading him when his value is high makes the most sense. We're definitely not just a couple of reasonably available players away from going deep in the playoffs. Are there key components on the team? Absolutely, but we also have several of those key players getting long in the tooth and no real financial flexibility to change that right now.
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NickChowaniec


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5773
Location: Buffalo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working on my mock draft... here's where I'm at. What do you think we do?

1. BROWNS Myles Garrett, DE
2. 49ERS Solomon Thomas, DE
3. BEARS Jamal Adams, S
4. JAGUARS Leonard Fournette, RB
5. TITANS Marshon Lattimore, CB
6. JETS Malik Hooker, S
7. CHARGERS Jonathan Allen, DL
8. PANTHERS Christian McCaffrey, RB
9. BENGALS Derek Barnett, DE

We got options.

Mike Williams
Corey Davis
OJ Howard
Mitch Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Marlon Humphrey
Other?

Worth mentioning we haven't had any meetings with Corey Davis, leading me to think if we do go WR, we think highly of Mike Williams.
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cdavls17


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickChowaniec wrote:
Working on my mock draft... here's where I'm at. What do you think we do?

1. BROWNS Myles Garrett, DE
2. 49ERS Solomon Thomas, DE
3. BEARS Jamal Adams, S
4. JAGUARS Leonard Fournette, RB
5. TITANS Marshon Lattimore, CB
6. JETS Malik Hooker, S
7. CHARGERS Jonathan Allen, DL
8. PANTHERS Christian McCaffrey, RB
9. BENGALS Derek Barnett, DE

We got options.

Mike Williams
Corey Davis
OJ Howard
Mitch Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Marlon Humphrey
Other?

Worth mentioning we haven't had any meetings with Corey Davis, leading me to think if we do go WR, we think highly of Mike Williams.


Trade down an option? Any team in need of a QB could be an option. The reason I say that is this is the situation that I hope didnt happen. Wr is a need but the bills have so many needs they could easily pick up an extra pick or 2 later on.

If the bills had to chose at 10 at this point I would go Howard as the draft is deep at WR and Corner where they can get a #2 wr in a later round and still be able to pick up a weapon for tyrod with Howard
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
NickChowaniec wrote:
Working on my mock draft... here's where I'm at. What do you think we do?

1. BROWNS Myles Garrett, DE
2. 49ERS Solomon Thomas, DE
3. BEARS Jamal Adams, S
4. JAGUARS Leonard Fournette, RB
5. TITANS Marshon Lattimore, CB
6. JETS Malik Hooker, S
7. CHARGERS Jonathan Allen, DL
8. PANTHERS Christian McCaffrey, RB
9. BENGALS Derek Barnett, DE

We got options.

Mike Williams
Corey Davis
OJ Howard
Mitch Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Marlon Humphrey
Other?

Worth mentioning we haven't had any meetings with Corey Davis, leading me to think if we do go WR, we think highly of Mike Williams.


Trade down an option? Any team in need of a QB could be an option. The reason I say that is this is the situation that I hope didnt happen. Wr is a need but the bills have so many needs they could easily pick up an extra pick or 2 later on.

If the bills had to chose at 10 at this point I would go Howard as the draft is deep at WR and Corner where they can get a #2 wr in a later round and still be able to pick up a weapon for tyrod with Howard

Yeah, in this scenario, Options # 1 & 2 for me are trade back. Option #3 would be Howard or Peppers. Howard is equal value for pick...taking Peppers would mean we missed an opportunity to trade back. Peppers would not make me upset, just disappointed for the missed opportunity.
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NickChowaniec


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5773
Location: Buffalo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
NickChowaniec wrote:
Working on my mock draft... here's where I'm at. What do you think we do?

1. BROWNS Myles Garrett, DE
2. 49ERS Solomon Thomas, DE
3. BEARS Jamal Adams, S
4. JAGUARS Leonard Fournette, RB
5. TITANS Marshon Lattimore, CB
6. JETS Malik Hooker, S
7. CHARGERS Jonathan Allen, DL
8. PANTHERS Christian McCaffrey, RB
9. BENGALS Derek Barnett, DE

We got options.

Mike Williams
Corey Davis
OJ Howard
Mitch Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Marlon Humphrey
Other?

Worth mentioning we haven't had any meetings with Corey Davis, leading me to think if we do go WR, we think highly of Mike Williams.


Trade down an option? Any team in need of a QB could be an option. The reason I say that is this is the situation that I hope didnt happen. Wr is a need but the bills have so many needs they could easily pick up an extra pick or 2 later on.

If the bills had to chose at 10 at this point I would go Howard as the draft is deep at WR and Corner where they can get a #2 wr in a later round and still be able to pick up a weapon for tyrod with Howard


I think everyone wants to trade down, so ideally yes I'd like to. Whenever I do mocks, I don't do trades. It's rare that you get them right.

I'm leaning Mike Williams, with OJ Howard a very close second. We just haven't looked at many TEs to make me think we're eyeing that position. Add in the fact that Tyrod doesn't see the middle of the field well, I think the more likely choice between the two is Williams.
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, son of a _______! I hope nothing really happened.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000802454/article/police-investigating-gareon-conley-after-rape-accusation
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Beast M0de


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please give me Mike Williams. He doesn't need to be open for Tyrod to throw him the ball and is an absolute beast. Doesn't have great separation but can track the ball down in the air and always come down with it. Him and Watkins would be so fun to watch. Plus Shady and Tygod with the threat to run; I like.
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Trentwannabe


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 6782
Location: Igloo, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of speculation about the Bills wanting to move back unless Howard is there at 10.

I could see a scenario where they trade back with Washington (pick 17) where apparently the Pegula jet spent some time this week (adding a 2nd and 4th) and go QB at 17 (Watson or Mahomes?)

The do something like this:

2a: WR
2b: CB
3: LB
4: DL
5a: TE
5b: S
5c: RB
6: CB
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like OJ Howard is being mocked the most to us by most draft pundits. If we stay at 10, I'm hoping it's Williams at this point. Does anyone know of Malik Hooker has been in for a interview ?
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NickChowaniec


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5773
Location: Buffalo
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Lots of speculation about the Bills wanting to move back unless Howard is there at 10.

I could see a scenario where they trade back with Washington (pick 17) where apparently the Pegula jet spent some time this week (adding a 2nd and 4th) and go QB at 17 (Watson or Mahomes?)

The do something like this:

2a: WR
2b: CB
3: LB
4: DL
5a: TE
5b: S
5c: RB
6: CB


Although I do agree we will be a good candidate to move out of 10, any trade talk is 100% fabrication/speculation. I believe nothing until it happens. Why would we travel to a city to discuss a trade? Dumb rumor, it made me laugh pretty good. Laughing

I just want OJ Howard or Mike Williams. Also satisfied if we end up with Corey Davis.

Over the moon if we manage to get Jamal Adams at 10, but there's about a 2% chance of that happening..
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