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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amerson and Smith aren't elite CB's but seeing these contracts this off-season, I'm glad were paying much less. I'm all for upgrading CB in the draft and a double dip if necessary. That way the competition will bring out their best our show us their replacements.
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reddevil


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Amerson and Smith aren't elite CB's but seeing these contracts this off-season, I'm glad were paying much less. I'm all for upgrading CB in the draft and a double dip if necessary. That way the competition will bring out their best our show us their replacements.


Agreed. We're unlikely to get a better opportunity to pick up some developmental DBs in a draft. We have starters in place and it's a really deep draft, particularly at CB. We know what we have in Smith, Amerson and Nelson. Non of the above are irreplaceable, but if any draft picks don't pan out straight away, they can all do a job. Ideally we can find a partner for Joseph with Nelson as security and we can pick up a CB of 2, one of which compete with Carrie for the slot straight away and hopefully find someone who has potential to compete with Smith next year.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting JDR interview which was posted by Dessie in another topic:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/oakland-raiders-nfl-scouting-combine-jack-del-rio-coach-silver-and-black-nfl-draft/1nj5mzeuoty9p1jo5gdrtzfdlo

“Part of it is that our attack needs to become a little more attacking,” Del Rio said. “There was a little too much catch-and-read at the line, which system-wise, we’re looking at to make sure we’re teeing off and doing the things we need to do to give those guys a chance.”

This suggest some system changes. The catch-and-read part refers to the 2gap DL system we have and the change could\should mean more 1gap at the DL.

I could dig a more aggressive 1 gap scheme up front.

JDR also mentioned Mario Edwards Jr. and Jihad Ward in that interview. Called them “They’re big, muscular and fast. They’re good football players that we need to develop and develop roles for them.”

We will see during the draft trully how much they trust Edwards and Ward, but lets remember when we started the season with Hayden and Carrie as our homegrown starting CB duo. That was obviously a bad bet, but they could bet again on their guys, whom by the way are 2 second round draft picks.

If we move to a 1gap system Pagano's hire is a really nice and logical hire. He learned that scheme from Wade Phillips and also used with success on his own.

I think we could even rock an Edwards-Latham-Ward DL for a 1gap scheme if we want and the 2nd year guys (especially Ward) can make a big step and Mario can stay healthy.

Autry is there behind Mario for depth, Jelly is there behind Latham. We need another guy to work behind Ward or if the trust is not that high towards him (or Mario's health) we could try to bring in a guy, who can give Ward a good battle for the position. We can also bring in another NT type in late rounds or UDFA IMO.

I like Mario, Ward, Latham and Autry in a 1 gap scheme and I also think we have enough fire power in Mack and Irvin to make that 1 gap system work against the run too. They would keep the edges, while the interior fills the inside gaps.

If Corey James can improve enough or Jenkins can stay healthy and return to his break out form, we might just be one quality ILB away from a really solid starting front 7. Obviously we would need depth too...

Give me the best LB in round 1.
Give me the best S in round 2.
Give me the best DL in round 3.
Give me some depth after that...
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
Interesting JDR interview which was posted by Dessie in another topic:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/oakland-raiders-nfl-scouting-combine-jack-del-rio-coach-silver-and-black-nfl-draft/1nj5mzeuoty9p1jo5gdrtzfdlo

“Part of it is that our attack needs to become a little more attacking,” Del Rio said. “There was a little too much catch-and-read at the line, which system-wise, we’re looking at to make sure we’re teeing off and doing the things we need to do to give those guys a chance.”

This suggest some system changes. The catch-and-read part refers to the 2gap DL system we have and the change could\should mean more 1gap at the DL.

I could dig a more aggressive 1 gap scheme up front.

JDR also mentioned Mario Edwards Jr. and Jihad Ward in that interview. Called them “They’re big, muscular and fast. They’re good football players that we need to develop and develop roles for them.”

We will see during the draft trully how much they trust Edwards and Ward, but lets remember when we started the season with Hayden and Carrie as our homegrown starting CB duo. That was obviously a bad bet, but they could bet again on their guys, whom by the way are 2 second round draft picks.

If we move to a 1gap system Pagano's hire is a really nice and logical hire. He learned that scheme from Wade Phillips and also used with success on his own.

I think we could even rock an Edwards-Latham-Ward DL for a 1gap scheme if we want and the 2nd year guys (especially Ward) can make a big step and Mario can stay healthy.

Autry is there behind Mario for depth, Jelly is there behind Latham. We need another guy to work behind Ward or if the trust is not that high towards him (or Mario's health) we could try to bring in a guy, who can give Ward a good battle for the position. We can also bring in another NT type in late rounds or UDFA IMO.

I like Mario, Ward, Latham and Autry in a 1 gap scheme and I also think we have enough fire power in Mack and Irvin to make that 1 gap system work against the run too. They would keep the edges, while the interior fills the inside gaps.

If Corey James can improve enough or Jenkins can stay healthy and return to his break out form, we might just be one quality ILB away from a really solid starting front 7. Obviously we would need depth too...

Give me the best LB in round 1.
Give me the best S in round 2.
Give me the best DL in round 3.
Give me some depth after that...


While I agree with the majority of this, I really like Autry as a 1 gap penetrator - it's what he excels at and would IMHO easily beat out Ward for the role of effectively a 3-4 DT if we went with a 5-2 front which this kind of implies. He and Ward were miscast in the scheme last year and struggled with discipline, holding the point of attack and reading the blocks and getting off blocks without getting washed out.

Just wondering how this might affect our style of LB play and subsequently the types of LBs we'll be looking at in the draft, with the 2 gap we've been running with DL players, the LBs have been smaller, quicker types as of late and I think the aim was to keep them clean and allow them to fly around and make clean up tackles without getting into wrestles with the OL. Obviously that didn't work out particularly well.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Rolni wrote:
Interesting JDR interview which was posted by Dessie in another topic:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/oakland-raiders-nfl-scouting-combine-jack-del-rio-coach-silver-and-black-nfl-draft/1nj5mzeuoty9p1jo5gdrtzfdlo

“Part of it is that our attack needs to become a little more attacking,” Del Rio said. “There was a little too much catch-and-read at the line, which system-wise, we’re looking at to make sure we’re teeing off and doing the things we need to do to give those guys a chance.”

This suggest some system changes. The catch-and-read part refers to the 2gap DL system we have and the change could\should mean more 1gap at the DL.

I could dig a more aggressive 1 gap scheme up front.

JDR also mentioned Mario Edwards Jr. and Jihad Ward in that interview. Called them “They’re big, muscular and fast. They’re good football players that we need to develop and develop roles for them.”

We will see during the draft trully how much they trust Edwards and Ward, but lets remember when we started the season with Hayden and Carrie as our homegrown starting CB duo. That was obviously a bad bet, but they could bet again on their guys, whom by the way are 2 second round draft picks.

If we move to a 1gap system Pagano's hire is a really nice and logical hire. He learned that scheme from Wade Phillips and also used with success on his own.

I think we could even rock an Edwards-Latham-Ward DL for a 1gap scheme if we want and the 2nd year guys (especially Ward) can make a big step and Mario can stay healthy.

Autry is there behind Mario for depth, Jelly is there behind Latham. We need another guy to work behind Ward or if the trust is not that high towards him (or Mario's health) we could try to bring in a guy, who can give Ward a good battle for the position. We can also bring in another NT type in late rounds or UDFA IMO.

I like Mario, Ward, Latham and Autry in a 1 gap scheme and I also think we have enough fire power in Mack and Irvin to make that 1 gap system work against the run too. They would keep the edges, while the interior fills the inside gaps.

If Corey James can improve enough or Jenkins can stay healthy and return to his break out form, we might just be one quality ILB away from a really solid starting front 7. Obviously we would need depth too...

Give me the best LB in round 1.
Give me the best S in round 2.
Give me the best DL in round 3.
Give me some depth after that...


While I agree with the majority of this, I really like Autry as a 1 gap penetrator - it's what he excels at and would IMHO easily beat out Ward for the role of effectively a 3-4 DT if we went with a 5-2 front which this kind of implies. He and Ward were miscast in the scheme last year and struggled with discipline, holding the point of attack and reading the blocks and getting off blocks without getting washed out.

Just wondering how this might affect our style of LB play and subsequently the types of LBs we'll be looking at in the draft, with the 2 gap we've been running with DL players, the LBs have been smaller, quicker types as of late and I think the aim was to keep them clean and allow them to fly around and make clean up tackles without getting into wrestles with the OL. Obviously that didn't work out particularly well.

Jarrad Davis could be a really nice fit if we move to a 1 gap scheme, since he played in one at Florida.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Rolni wrote:
Interesting JDR interview which was posted by Dessie in another topic:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/oakland-raiders-nfl-scouting-combine-jack-del-rio-coach-silver-and-black-nfl-draft/1nj5mzeuoty9p1jo5gdrtzfdlo

“Part of it is that our attack needs to become a little more attacking,” Del Rio said. “There was a little too much catch-and-read at the line, which system-wise, we’re looking at to make sure we’re teeing off and doing the things we need to do to give those guys a chance.”

This suggest some system changes. The catch-and-read part refers to the 2gap DL system we have and the change could\should mean more 1gap at the DL.

I could dig a more aggressive 1 gap scheme up front.

JDR also mentioned Mario Edwards Jr. and Jihad Ward in that interview. Called them “They’re big, muscular and fast. They’re good football players that we need to develop and develop roles for them.”

We will see during the draft trully how much they trust Edwards and Ward, but lets remember when we started the season with Hayden and Carrie as our homegrown starting CB duo. That was obviously a bad bet, but they could bet again on their guys, whom by the way are 2 second round draft picks.

If we move to a 1gap system Pagano's hire is a really nice and logical hire. He learned that scheme from Wade Phillips and also used with success on his own.

I think we could even rock an Edwards-Latham-Ward DL for a 1gap scheme if we want and the 2nd year guys (especially Ward) can make a big step and Mario can stay healthy.

Autry is there behind Mario for depth, Jelly is there behind Latham. We need another guy to work behind Ward or if the trust is not that high towards him (or Mario's health) we could try to bring in a guy, who can give Ward a good battle for the position. We can also bring in another NT type in late rounds or UDFA IMO.

I like Mario, Ward, Latham and Autry in a 1 gap scheme and I also think we have enough fire power in Mack and Irvin to make that 1 gap system work against the run too. They would keep the edges, while the interior fills the inside gaps.

If Corey James can improve enough or Jenkins can stay healthy and return to his break out form, we might just be one quality ILB away from a really solid starting front 7. Obviously we would need depth too...

Give me the best LB in round 1.
Give me the best S in round 2.
Give me the best DL in round 3.
Give me some depth after that...


While I agree with the majority of this, I really like Autry as a 1 gap penetrator - it's what he excels at and would IMHO easily beat out Ward for the role of effectively a 3-4 DT if we went with a 5-2 front which this kind of implies. He and Ward were miscast in the scheme last year and struggled with discipline, holding the point of attack and reading the blocks and getting off blocks without getting washed out.

Just wondering how this might affect our style of LB play and subsequently the types of LBs we'll be looking at in the draft, with the 2 gap we've been running with DL players, the LBs have been smaller, quicker types as of late and I think the aim was to keep them clean and allow them to fly around and make clean up tackles without getting into wrestles with the OL. Obviously that didn't work out particularly well.

Jarrad Davis could be a really nice fit if we move to a 1 gap scheme, since he played in one at Florida.


Agreed! He's probably my favourite prospect who's likely to be around when we pick and this could suit him even more.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 6635
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Rolni wrote:
Interesting JDR interview which was posted by Dessie in another topic:
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/oakland-raiders-nfl-scouting-combine-jack-del-rio-coach-silver-and-black-nfl-draft/1nj5mzeuoty9p1jo5gdrtzfdlo

“Part of it is that our attack needs to become a little more attacking,” Del Rio said. “There was a little too much catch-and-read at the line, which system-wise, we’re looking at to make sure we’re teeing off and doing the things we need to do to give those guys a chance.”

This suggest some system changes. The catch-and-read part refers to the 2gap DL system we have and the change could\should mean more 1gap at the DL.

I could dig a more aggressive 1 gap scheme up front.

JDR also mentioned Mario Edwards Jr. and Jihad Ward in that interview. Called them “They’re big, muscular and fast. They’re good football players that we need to develop and develop roles for them.”

We will see during the draft trully how much they trust Edwards and Ward, but lets remember when we started the season with Hayden and Carrie as our homegrown starting CB duo. That was obviously a bad bet, but they could bet again on their guys, whom by the way are 2 second round draft picks.

If we move to a 1gap system Pagano's hire is a really nice and logical hire. He learned that scheme from Wade Phillips and also used with success on his own.

I think we could even rock an Edwards-Latham-Ward DL for a 1gap scheme if we want and the 2nd year guys (especially Ward) can make a big step and Mario can stay healthy.

Autry is there behind Mario for depth, Jelly is there behind Latham. We need another guy to work behind Ward or if the trust is not that high towards him (or Mario's health) we could try to bring in a guy, who can give Ward a good battle for the position. We can also bring in another NT type in late rounds or UDFA IMO.

I like Mario, Ward, Latham and Autry in a 1 gap scheme and I also think we have enough fire power in Mack and Irvin to make that 1 gap system work against the run too. They would keep the edges, while the interior fills the inside gaps.

If Corey James can improve enough or Jenkins can stay healthy and return to his break out form, we might just be one quality ILB away from a really solid starting front 7. Obviously we would need depth too...

Give me the best LB in round 1.
Give me the best S in round 2.
Give me the best DL in round 3.
Give me some depth after that...


While I agree with the majority of this, I really like Autry as a 1 gap penetrator - it's what he excels at and would IMHO easily beat out Ward for the role of effectively a 3-4 DT if we went with a 5-2 front which this kind of implies. He and Ward were miscast in the scheme last year and struggled with discipline, holding the point of attack and reading the blocks and getting off blocks without getting washed out.

Just wondering how this might affect our style of LB play and subsequently the types of LBs we'll be looking at in the draft, with the 2 gap we've been running with DL players, the LBs have been smaller, quicker types as of late and I think the aim was to keep them clean and allow them to fly around and make clean up tackles without getting into wrestles with the OL. Obviously that didn't work out particularly well.

Jarrad Davis could be a really nice fit if we move to a 1 gap scheme, since he played in one at Florida.


Yeah and so would McMillan. In the 1 gap we need ILBs to step up and take on a guard, either would be good fits.
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jlieberum1985


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's all about the coaching scheme to put players at the best position, i believed we hired chargers defense coordinator this off-season and look how the defense perform day and night compare to norton jr, can't wait when he's gone
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25663
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB


Typically, you and I have been similar in our big boards over the years. Odd we're so far apart this year.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB


Typically, you and I have been similar in our big boards over the years. Odd we're so far apart this year.


I think that while you call these guys JAG, which is fine, I can respect the fact that you try to justify everything you say, sometimes having a guy who is dependable and does enough is good enough.

Last year, we had horrible LB play from malcolm smith and even getting average play at that spot would drastically improve the defense.

McMillan doesn't pop off the screen, but he's smart, strong, and dependable. Obi is similar in that he has a predetermined skillset that can be very valuable, but he's not gonna make splash plays. For the Raiders, covering tight ends is a huge issue and SB88 wants a guy who can cover tight ends and take that matchup away. Obi does it very well.

10 years ago, he wouldn't be as valuable because he's not a hard hitter with incredible physicality, but his ability to cover is invaluable when you go against a team with a guy like Martellus Bennett, or Rob Gronkowski and having a safety with the length and speed to take away vertical routes versus tight ends can be invaluable when dropping a backer underneath, or in different coverage packages.

If you like Peppers, Budda Baker, or Davis, I don't blame you because I do too. I'm just looking at their perspective as well.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB


Pretty much where I am at. Someone like Griffin in the 3rd. I'd prefer Tankersley but not sure where he goes.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB


Typically, you and I have been similar in our big boards over the years. Odd we're so far apart this year.


I know right? How does it feel being wrong for once? 🙃

In all seriousness, I don't care who we get, as long as they help us win. And are decent humans.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB


Typically, you and I have been similar in our big boards over the years. Odd we're so far apart this year.


I think that while you call these guys JAG, which is fine, I can respect the fact that you try to justify everything you say, sometimes having a guy who is dependable and does enough is good enough.

Last year, we had horrible LB play from malcolm smith and even getting average play at that spot would drastically improve the defense.

McMillan doesn't pop off the screen, but he's smart, strong, and dependable. Obi is similar in that he has a predetermined skillset that can be very valuable, but he's not gonna make splash plays. For the Raiders, covering tight ends is a huge issue and SB88 wants a guy who can cover tight ends and take that matchup away. Obi does it very well.

10 years ago, he wouldn't be as valuable because he's not a hard hitter with incredible physicality, but his ability to cover is invaluable when you go against a team with a guy like Martellus Bennett, or Rob Gronkowski and having a safety with the length and speed to take away vertical routes versus tight ends can be invaluable when dropping a backer underneath, or in different coverage packages.

If you like Peppers, Budda Baker, or Davis, I don't blame you because I do too. I'm just looking at their perspective as well.


Why would you draft a player in the first who's not going to make splash plays? And yes, covering TEs is an issue. Drafting a "tall" safety doesn't have to be the answer.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Agree with Davis and McMillan. For me, I'm hoping for:

1. Obi
2. McMillan
3. CB


Typically, you and I have been similar in our big boards over the years. Odd we're so far apart this year.
He's down with Homey the clown.
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