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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Why does a safety we take in round 1 need to start but any other position we select doesn't need to?

Last year we took a wr who we all knew wasn't going to start.


When you draft a player in the first round, you expect the given player to at the very least play a lot in his first year. In our case, we had two established starters at wide receiver, so the expectation for Doctson was to be heavily involved in the offense, but starting was not expected because we had Jackson and GarÁon on the roster.

Now, you are saying that we have no talent behind Swearinger. If we accept that assumption, then a first round would be expected to step in and start in his rookie year if not on Opening Day. However, MKnight82 apparently does not accept that assumption. So, is this a Doctson situation?

Not really, because unlike Jackson and GarÁon who were on the last year on their contract, both Swearinger and Cravens (arguably the guy who would likely be starting) are signed through the next three years. So, unless the guy who we draft would be a significant improvement in talent over what we have now, we would be either wasting a $25M contract, a 2016 second round pick, or a 2017 first round pick.

Quote:
If we take a corner there's a question as to if they play over Breeland and Fuller right away and you are ok with that because we are possibly planning ahead a year assuming we lose Breeland. If we take a corner round 1 that guy may end up being our #4 corner.


You assume that a safety can play corner.

Quote:
You mention Baker and his ability to play the slot but you are totally ignoring Peppers's ability to be a better version of a Kyshoen Jarrett type player for us who can play both safety positions, has played both corner positions in college and has played Lb as well.

How do you say Baker is versatile but then overlook Peppers's versatility to play every position on our defense except along the DL or 3-4 OLB?


Kyshoen Jarrett was a sixth round pick. Peppers would be a first round pick. That's a significant difference in draft value.

Also, wouldn't Peppers be a better version of Cravens? A joker safety?

Quote:
That's a head scratcher to me... Confused

We also currently have more depth at FS than SS.

For SS we have Cravens and who's our back up?

At FS we have Swearinger (slated as the starter). Then, we have Hall, Blackmon and Everett all on the roster.


Again, you don't draft in the first round for depth players. You expect starters in the first.

Quote:
Now, there's a question as to if all 3 will be on the team in September but right now they are.

I'm pretty sure Everett could play SS because of his toughness, size and tackling ability but we all know Hall wasn't good in the box at SS in 2015 and I don't think Blackmon would be any better.

I'm not saying Peppers is my first choice, but he may be the most talented defensive player available when we pick. I think Lamp is surely more of a reach than McDowell, Peppers or the LBs at 17. I'd hope we take the defensive player if this scenario plays out.


Maybe. But is he the best defensive player at our biggest need? If we're talking about a depth at the position behind two guys who are signed through three years (one of whom was a rookie and showed promise, the other we don't know how he'll fit but looks like a possible baller), perhaps we should look in a different direction.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I have no problem with taking a corner to develop in the mid to late rounds, but in round 1 or 2? I'll pass. Give me the front 7 defender who has a good chance of starting day 1 and if not him, we could still use good depth at safety. SS depth is an issue for the team right now given the questions surrounding Cravens ability to play safety and we don't have any depth behind him.


One more time: do not spend your first or second picks on depth players. You spend those picks on guys who you expect to start within a year of being drafted. Depth is something you focus on with Day 3 picks.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I have no problem with taking a corner to develop in the mid to late rounds, but in round 1 or 2? I'll pass. Give me the front 7 defender who has a good chance of starting day 1 and if not him, we could still use good depth at safety. SS depth is an issue for the team right now given the questions surrounding Cravens ability to play safety and we don't have any depth behind him.


One more time: do not spend your first or second picks on depth players. You spend those picks on guys who you expect to start within a year of being drafted. Depth is something you focus on with Day 3 picks.
A guy like Peppers would play more of the game than most other draft picks. Peppers can play corner (despite what you say, he played this when he first got to college and some last year), we can take Foster off the field on 2nd/3rd and long and play Peppers or Cravens at dime ILB. Peppers also can play offense, and return punts and kick offs.

Versatility and speed are needed on this defense and to defend today's NFL offenses, Peppers provides that. He's a stat sheet stuffer.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Drafting for immediate needs is a bad plan for the draft. I would love to draft a Dlineman at 17, unfortunately this draft doesn't have any worth taking there (that will be available).
Malik McDowell says hi. He has top 10 talent and most big boards have him around our selection within 5 picks - I know Drafttek does.

By the way, I couldn't sleep last night so I was flipping through the channels and ended up seeing that a Michigan State vs Indiana game was on tv at 1:00 am on the Big 10 network. Malik McDowell was healthy and played in the game. He was unblockable all game long from his LDT position. I'm not sure if Dan Freeney was the one trying to block him, but McDowell abused whomever it was all game long.
I think McDowell will bust and hope we don't select him.


I agree. I'd rather take my chances with Monty Adams in the second round than McDowell in the first.
I'm not sure how taking the less talented player a round later is a better alternative than taking a player with top 10 talent who could fall to us in round 1. Confused

Adams has the same consistently question marks as Mcdowell does, so does Brantley, Wormley and the other DT's slated to get drafted after McDowell. The difference between them and McDowell is that McDowell has top 10 talent and they don't.
McDowell is not a top 10 talent. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. You are seriously overrating him. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes in the 2nd round.
There's a difference between talent level and what he's shown. McDowell has top 10 talent meaning he's got that natural ability and pure talent and just based off of his natural talent you would say he's worthy of a top 10 pick. That's why before the season started it was projected he would go as high as top 5 in the draft.

He didn't have a good junior season for multiple reasons - including injury - and some scouts question his work ethic and love of the game. Because of those three reasons he has fallen from having a preseason top five projection to being likely a mid to late first draft pick, but that doesn't take away from his natural talent. His natural talent is on par with Johnathan Allen, McDowell just hasn't lived up to his talent level yet because of various reasons.

Put it this way, if this was the MLB, NHL or NBA draft he most certainly would go top 10 because in those drafts teams draft players more based on their projections on what the player will become in 2 or 3 years and not what they did last year during the college season or what they will do immediately.

Nothing has changed with McDowell's potential. His potential is still that of a top 10 player and as high as Johnathan Allen's. McDowell just got hurt and didn't have the junior year he expects to or what scouts expected him to which put into question worth ethic issues and his desire for football.


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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I have no problem with taking a corner to develop in the mid to late rounds, but in round 1 or 2? I'll pass. Give me the front 7 defender who has a good chance of starting day 1 and if not him, we could still use good depth at safety. SS depth is an issue for the team right now given the questions surrounding Cravens ability to play safety and we don't have any depth behind him.


One more time: do not spend your first or second picks on depth players. You spend those picks on guys who you expect to start within a year of being drafted. Depth is something you focus on with Day 3 picks.
A guy like Peppers would play more of the game than most other draft picks. Peppers can play corner (despite what you say, he played this when he first got to college and some last year), we can take Foster off the field on 2nd/3rd and long and play Peppers or Cravens at dime ILB. Peppers also can play offense, and return punts and kick offs.

Versatility and speed are needed on this defense and to defend today's NFL offenses, Peppers provides that. He's a stat sheet stuffer.


First off, I care not a hoot for defenders playing on offense. It's a gimmick and gimmicks don't really work long term. The specialization required for any position in the NFL means players should focus on side of the ball.

Second, I am not all that gung ho for my studs playing on special teams, especially punt returns. That's just asking for a major player to get hurt. Yes, that means I'm going to sacrifice a roster spot for a guy who is primarily a returner; that's okay because if he gets hurt, it only mildly impacts the quality of my overall team. Losing a key role player/potential starter is a much bigger problem.

Third, drafting Peppers would not be drafting for depth. You would be giving him major playing time, at the expense of either Swearinger or Cravens. Now, if that's okay with you, that's your call. But let's call that what it is: drafting to replace a guy you either just signed as free agent not a month ago or drafted last year. Maybe you move Cravens down to ILB. Maybe you move Peppers to the Mike. I don't know, but on the face of it, it feels like you would be trying to be fancy without having an actual long term plan.

Fourth, it's also possible that the draft works out that way and he's the best available. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd rather go Peppers over McCaffrey.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooley spouting the company line today about McCaffrey he best player in the draft and one of the best offensive players he has ever seen. Same day Redskins host him. Coincidence?

Ive always believed its an offensive playmaker who the redskins select- they sell more jerseys and tickets. RG made Danny even richer thats why he loved him

one defensive guy who has had fantastic production is Demarcus Walker. DE
6-3.5, 280, 4.79 16 sacks in 2016 but he isn't getting any talk about being a first rounder. i wonder if we can get him in the second
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MikeT14


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
Cooley spouting the company line today about McCaffrey he best player in the draft and one of the best offensive players he has ever seen. Same day Redskins host him. Coincidence?


Well, no probably not, but also probably not because he is spouting the company line either. My guess is they were talking about him because of the news of him visiting.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeT14 wrote:
Doc Draper wrote:
Cooley spouting the company line today about McCaffrey he best player in the draft and one of the best offensive players he has ever seen. Same day Redskins host him. Coincidence?


Well, no probably not, but also probably not because he is spouting the company line either. My guess is they were talking about him because of the news of him visiting.


Yep you make a lot of sense. Sometimes I go to far on conspiracy theories with Danny and former refskins like Cooley who will do or say anything for a buck. I have to remember Cooley is a young dumb kid with his first real job outside of playing football.
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taylormade


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
Cooley spouting the company line today about McCaffrey he best player in the draft and one of the best offensive players he has ever seen. Same day Redskins host him. Coincidence?

one defensive guy who has had fantastic production is Demarcus Walker. DE
6-3.5, 280, 4.79 16 sacks in 2016 but he isn't getting any talk about being a first rounder. i wonder if we can get him in the second


Might be available in the third, he is falling but he's someone I got my eye on too.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Draper wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Drafting for immediate needs is a bad plan for the draft. I would love to draft a Dlineman at 17, unfortunately this draft doesn't have any worth taking there (that will be available).
Malik McDowell says hi. He has top 10 talent and most big boards have him around our selection within 5 picks - I know Drafttek does.

By the way, I couldn't sleep last night so I was flipping through the channels and ended up seeing that a Michigan State vs Indiana game was on tv at 1:00 am on the Big 10 network. Malik McDowell was healthy and played in the game. He was unblockable all game long from his LDT position. I'm not sure if Dan Freeney was the one trying to block him, but McDowell abused whomever it was all game long.
I think McDowell will bust and hope we don't select him.


I agree. I'd rather take my chances with Monty Adams in the second round than McDowell in the first.
I'm not sure how taking the less talented player a round later is a better alternative than taking a player with top 10 talent who could fall to us in round 1. Confused

Adams has the same consistently question marks as Mcdowell does, so does Brantley, Wormley and the other DT's slated to get drafted after McDowell. The difference between them and McDowell is that McDowell has top 10 talent and they don't.
McDowell is not a top 10 talent. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. You are seriously overrating him. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes in the 2nd round.
There's a difference between talent level and what he's shown. McDowell has top 10 talent meaning he's got that natural ability and pure talent and just based off of his natural talent you would say he's worthy of a top 10 pick. That's why before the season started it was projected he would go as high as top 5 in the draft.

He didn't have a good junior season for multiple reasons - including injury - and some scouts question his work ethic and love of the game. Because of those three reasons he has fallen from having a preseason top five projection to being likely a mid to late first draft pick, but that doesn't take away from his natural talent. His natural talent is on par with Johnathan Allen, McDowell just hasn't lived up to his talent level yet because of various reasons.

Put it this way, if this was the MLB, NHL or NBA draft he most certainly would go top 10 because in those drafts teams draft players more based on their projections on what the player will become in 2 or 3 years and not what they did last year during the college season or what they will do immediately.

Nothing has changed with McDowell's potential. His potential is still that of a top 10 player and as high as Johnathan Allen's. McDowell just got hurt and didn't have the junior year he expects to or what scouts expected him to which put into question worth ethic issues and his desire for football.


Underachiever
Looks like Tarzan plays like jane
Workout warrior
Vernon Gholston

Take your pick
Take my pick? I'll take the next Gerald McCoy or DeForest Buckner for 1,000 Alex. Wink
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I have no problem with taking a corner to develop in the mid to late rounds, but in round 1 or 2? I'll pass. Give me the front 7 defender who has a good chance of starting day 1 and if not him, we could still use good depth at safety. SS depth is an issue for the team right now given the questions surrounding Cravens ability to play safety and we don't have any depth behind him.


One more time: do not spend your first or second picks on depth players. You spend those picks on guys who you expect to start within a year of being drafted. Depth is something you focus on with Day 3 picks.
A guy like Peppers would play more of the game than most other draft picks. Peppers can play corner (despite what you say, he played this when he first got to college and some last year), we can take Foster off the field on 2nd/3rd and long and play Peppers or Cravens at dime ILB. Peppers also can play offense, and return punts and kick offs.

Versatility and speed are needed on this defense and to defend today's NFL offenses, Peppers provides that. He's a stat sheet stuffer.


First off, I care not a hoot for defenders playing on offense. It's a gimmick and gimmicks don't really work long term. The specialization required for any position in the NFL means players should focus on side of the ball.
I'm just saying he has that versatility, not anything else.

Quote:
Second, I am not all that gung ho for my studs playing on special teams, especially punt returns. That's just asking for a major player to get hurt. Yes, that means I'm going to sacrifice a roster spot for a guy who is primarily a returner; that's okay because if he gets hurt, it only mildly impacts the quality of my overall team. Losing a key role player/potential starter is a much bigger problem.
My point was that if we could have Peppers return kicks, Crowder wouldn't have to return punts. IMO Crowder is our 2nd most important offensive playmaker after Reed. I'd rather have peppers returning punts than Crowder.

Quote:
Third, drafting Peppers would not be drafting for depth. You would be giving him major playing time, at the expense of either Swearinger or Cravens. Now, if that's okay with you, that's your call. But let's call that what it is: drafting to replace a guy you either just signed as free agent not a month ago or drafted last year. Maybe you move Cravens down to ILB. Maybe you move Peppers to the Mike. I don't know, but on the face of it, it feels like you would be trying to be fancy without having an actual long term plan.
It's about adding speed and versatility to the defense. As I said, it's a passing league, we need to get faster on defense, this would be an opportunity to do it if he's the BPA.

Quote:
Fourth, it's also possible that the draft works out that way and he's the best available. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd rather go Peppers over McCaffrey.
Agreed, and basically that's what I'm saying as well. I'd rather take him over a one cut, zbs type running back because we don't run that scheme anymore and in our offense I'm affraid McCaffery would just become a better version of Thompson for us or what Bernard was for Cincy. I still think we'd use Kelley more as our inbetween the tackles guy.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich Tandler was just on the local radio station here, a few tidbits from the interview:

- His understanding of the power structure for the Redskins on draft day: Scott Campbell and Jay Gruden will be the biggest influences on who we select with our picks.

- Bruce Allen will mostly just be taking phone calls on trades and will decide on whether to make a trade or not.

- Gun to his head, he thinks the Redskins draft LBer Haasan Reddick.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-third-down-passing-stats-reveal-why-redskins-need-draft-edge-rushers

In the big picture, the Redskins werenít too bad when it came to bringing down the quarterback. They compiled they compiled 38 sacks, good enough to tie for ninth in the NFL.

But when you put the numbers under closer scrutiny you can see that they didnít get it done when they really needed to. On third down, when most teams are expected to pass the ball, the Redskins got just 12 sacks on 166 pass attempts. That was tied for seventh-fewest in the league.

Itís easy to see the linkage from this to the Redskins league-worst third down defense that gave up first downs on 46.6 percent of opponentsí attempts. The time opposing quarterbacks had to pass was a factor in the passer rating of 110.3 that they posted on third down. The composite passer rating for all third-down pass attempts throughout the league last year was 86.1.

Looking at this, it would be difficult for any Redskins fan to object to the selection of an edge rusher with the teamís top draft pick on Thursday.

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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:

Looking at this, it would be difficult for any Redskins fan to object to the selection of an edge rusher with the teamís top draft pick on Thursday.


Ummm, no, it would be easy to object if the pick is a clear reach with better talent on the board.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Rich Tandler was just on the local radio station here, a few tidbits from the interview:

- His understanding of the power structure for the Redskins on draft day: Scott Campbell and Jay Gruden will be the biggest influences on who we select with our picks.

- Bruce Allen will mostly just be taking phone calls on trades and will decide on whether to make a trade or not.

- Gun to his head, he thinks the Redskins draft LBer Haasan Reddick.


I'm actually pretty interested in this. If Gruden has more influence than Allen in the draft, it might not be all that terrible. From what I've read, Gruden was the main guy pushing for Dalton in Cincy. And I've heard he had significant input on selecting AJ Green... then again, maybe that's not such a good thing with Julio Jones still on the board Laughing .
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