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Who is your favorite QB Target?
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Who is your favorite QB Target?
Deshone Kizer
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Patrick Mahomes
31%
 31%  [ 15 ]
Mitchell Trubisky
39%
 39%  [ 19 ]
Deshaun Watson
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
David Webb
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 48

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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 15247
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
buno67 wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Aye...did y'all get a chance to read King Goober's thoughts on Josh Dobbs' knee inversion when he plants?

Truly riveting stuff..

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=587573&start=30


damn that dreaded knee wobble, damn it to hell!!!

I dont think in all my life of playing football, watching football, coaching football, and talking about football on here have I ever heard someone bring up knee inversion. Its a joke right? please tell me its a joke.

I hope he knows he is a laughing stock in our forum


He's something else lol.


Gaining my affection is DraftHobbyist's. He literally is raising or dropping prospects based on the combine and pro days Laughing


Lol yeah he's fun too.
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Bonanza23


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
My #1 concern with Mitch is something I can't personally measure and that's his ability to understand pro concepts. Only Hue can test that.


Oh look at this a reasoned response. I agree.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
My #1 concern with Mitch is something I can't personally measure and that's his ability to understand pro concepts. Only Hue can test that.


Oh look at this a reasoned response. I agree.


I view Trub the same way I did Carr. I unfortunately couldn't measure how intelligent Carr was coming out of Fresno. That's up to the coaching staff.

I will have similar concerns with all guys coming out of spreads.
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
My #1 concern with Mitch is something I can't personally measure and that's his ability to understand pro concepts. Only Hue can test that.


Oh look at this a reasoned response. I agree.


and yet you can't agree with mechanical limitations that are apparent on tape.... Rolling Eyes
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
brownie man wrote:
You know what I think about the Trubisky situation

It's not the fact he only started 13 games. I think that's fine you get a feel for him and the player he is within a year. Look at Cam Newton one year starting didn't stop him from going 1 overall.

I don't think it's the 13 games. I think teams are starting questioning what was going on in the program where he couldn't start over Marquise. That's the problem he looked great this year, but why couldn't you start before?

Was it the program?
We're you not good enough to that point?
Could you not understand game plans or defenses to that point?

That's where the concern is


There is also what he has on tape. Throws that do not have great velocity, even when needed, and a small hitch/windup when throwing. I truly expect an interception machine at the next level.


Prove it.


That is easy enough, go to youtube, pull up his high lights.... the ones MEANT to make him look good, his BEST moments, and watch the ball velocity, watch his pre throwing hitch, every single time. NFL secondaries are just too good, they will be jumping routes all day long.


So in other words you can't.


In other words, here you go, with the exception of shovel passes, watch the windup every single throw, watch the slow motion passes (not really, they just take a few seconds longer to get where they are going than the throws of real franchise QBs, long enough for NFL defenders to jump the routes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gDmgx5O7M

In contrast, lets look at Andrew Luck, he has a pass here, on his back foot, falling down, with more zip than most throws in the entire Trubisky video. Notice how many times the WR has to slow down and almost stop on Trubisky's throws, because the ball is taking too long to get there that they are outrunning it. In contrast Luck is hitting them in stride.

Its really not that difficult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyvG8w3wT5A
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
My #1 concern with Mitch is something I can't personally measure and that's his ability to understand pro concepts. Only Hue can test that.


Oh look at this a reasoned response. I agree.


and yet you can't agree with mechanical limitations that are apparent on tape.... Rolling Eyes


The man asked you to prove it....no proof...only opinion stated as fact...your MO....

IMO....I watched a poised, young QB who has room to grow, has Superior leadership skills, has an arm that is more than adequate for the NFL, he throws with touch and anticipation, show's he can get through passing progressions and is the best QB in this draft IMO as far as ball handling, play fakes, option reads, play action passing. He needs to clean up his footwork and the quickness of his reads. I don't see this mysterious "Mechanical Limitation" as if his throwing motion is like Vince Young?
Are there things he needs to work on? Of COURSE, but what Rookie QB comes into the league as a finished product....even Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck have/did make adjustments....

I see a QB hitting a lot of his receivers in stride....some of the slow downs are cats are so wide open (sometimes due to the play fake...please be objective) that he's not trying to overthrow them, or throw them out of bounds......that will improve with footwork....remember this kid only started a single year....he's not a 3 year starter like Andrew Luck, who was coached by an NFL Qb, and who's father was HOF QB's Backup....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gDmgx5O7M
(Ball handling, anticipation, escapability and arm strength)

INT machine in the Pro's....possibly...but if you take his stats from his Soph and Jr. years....%76.5 Completion pct., 6 INT's in 494 pass attempts vs 36 TD's (+8 more rushing 44 total TDS in 22 games)
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mitch-trubisky-1.html

Arm just as big as Kizer and Evans....and he hits the "Benchmark" for Velocity for NFL QB's....
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

(See....that's my opinionated rebuttal supported by factual statistics, to your opinion stated as facts)


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big poppa pump


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
My #1 concern with Mitch is something I can't personally measure and that's his ability to understand pro concepts. Only Hue can test that.


Oh look at this a reasoned response. I agree.


and yet you can't agree with mechanical limitations that are apparent on tape.... Rolling Eyes


The man asked you to prove it....no proof...only opinion stated as fact...your MO....

IMO....I watched a poised, young QB who has room to grow, has Superior leadership skills, has an arm that is more than adequate for the NFL, he throws with touch and anticipation, show's he can get through passing progressions and is the best QB in this draft IMO as far as ball handling, play fakes, option reads, play action passing. He needs to clean up his footwork and the quickness of his reads. I don't see this mysterious "Mechanical Limitation" as if his throwing motion is like Vince Young?
Are there things he needs to work on? Of COURSE, but what Rookie QB comes into the league as a finished product....even Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck have/did make adjustments....

I see a QB hitting a lot of his receivers in stride....some of the slow downs are cats are so wide open (sometimes due to the play fake...please be objective) that he's not trying to overthrow them, or throw them out of bounds......that will improve with footwork....remember this kid only started a single year....he's not a 3 year starter like Andrew Luck, who was coached by an NFL Qb, and who's father was HOF QB's Backup....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gDmgx5O7M
(Ball handling, anticipation, escapability and arm strength)

INT machine in the Pro's....possibly...but if you take his stats from his Soph and Jr. years....%76.5 Completion pct., 6 INT's in 494 pass attempts vs 36 TD's (+8 more rushing 44 total TDS in 22 games)
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mitch-trubisky-1.html

Arm just as big as Kizer and Evans....and he hits the "Benchmark" for Velocity for NFL QB's....
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

(See....that's my opinionated rebuttal supported by factual statistics, to your opinion stated as facts)



DaWg coming strong as usual. I still like Kizer a tad better, however, I believe that Mitchell has the ability to be a top 15 QB in this league. Most feel he needs to sit and learn because of the few starts in college. If that is the case, so be it. I still agree with you that he is a first round talent, and would not hesitate to pull the trigger at 12.
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DaWg_LB.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the Props BigPoppa.....^^^
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownie man wrote:
You know what I think about the Trubisky situation

It's not the fact he only started 13 games. I think that's fine you get a feel for him and the player he is within a year. Look at Cam Newton one year starting didn't stop him from going 1 overall.

I don't think it's the 13 games. I think teams are starting questioning what was going on in the program where he couldn't start over Marquise. That's the problem he looked great this year, but why couldn't you start before?

Was it the program?
We're you not good enough to that point?
Could you not understand game plans or defenses to that point?

That's where the concern is


You're assuming Larry Fedora knew what he was doing. He's like Jeff Fisher in that he will constantly have a team playing average.
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
My #1 concern with Mitch is something I can't personally measure and that's his ability to understand pro concepts. Only Hue can test that.


Oh look at this a reasoned response. I agree.


and yet you can't agree with mechanical limitations that are apparent on tape.... Rolling Eyes


The man asked you to prove it....no proof...only opinion stated as fact...your MO....

IMO....I watched a poised, young QB who has room to grow, has Superior leadership skills, has an arm that is more than adequate for the NFL, he throws with touch and anticipation, show's he can get through passing progressions and is the best QB in this draft IMO as far as ball handling, play fakes, option reads, play action passing. He needs to clean up his footwork and the quickness of his reads. I don't see this mysterious "Mechanical Limitation" as if his throwing motion is like Vince Young?
Are there things he needs to work on? Of COURSE, but what Rookie QB comes into the league as a finished product....even Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck have/did make adjustments....

I see a QB hitting a lot of his receivers in stride....some of the slow downs are cats are so wide open (sometimes due to the play fake...please be objective) that he's not trying to overthrow them, or throw them out of bounds......that will improve with footwork....remember this kid only started a single year....he's not a 3 year starter like Andrew Luck, who was coached by an NFL Qb, and who's father was HOF QB's Backup....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gDmgx5O7M
(Ball handling, anticipation, escapability and arm strength)

INT machine in the Pro's....possibly...but if you take his stats from his Soph and Jr. years....%76.5 Completion pct., 6 INT's in 494 pass attempts vs 36 TD's (+8 more rushing 44 total TDS in 22 games)
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mitch-trubisky-1.html

Arm just as big as Kizer and Evans....and he hits the "Benchmark" for Velocity for NFL QB's....
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity

(See....that's my opinionated rebuttal supported by factual statistics, to your opinion stated as facts)



As stated, quite clearly I thought, pro secondaries and college secondaries are not created equally. The history of the NFL is littered with QBs with similar numbers that came to the NFL and tanked.

I cited game tape, with a game tape of a true franchise QB prospect to compare to.

If you can't watch the 2 supplied videos and see the obvious difference, then I can't really help you. Just kick back with your wings and enjoy the game casually and try not to overthink things.
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DaWg_LB.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DizzyDean wrote:

As stated, quite clearly I thought, pro secondaries and college secondaries are not created equally. The history of the NFL is littered with QBs with similar numbers that came to the NFL and tanked.

I cited game tape, with a game tape of a true franchise QB prospect to compare to.

If you can't watch the 2 supplied videos and see the obvious difference, then I can't really help you. Just kick back with your wings and enjoy the game casually and try not to overthink things.





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Mastercheddaar


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: hhhh Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:

As stated, quite clearly I thought, pro secondaries and college secondaries are not created equally. The history of the NFL is littered with QBs with similar numbers that came to the NFL and tanked.

I cited game tape, with a game tape of a true franchise QB prospect to compare to.

If you can't watch the 2 supplied videos and see the obvious difference, then I can't really help you. Just kick back with your wings and enjoy the game casually and try not to overthink things.






Oh no Dawg the rookie sensation with his 23 forum posts is coming to educate you all about foosball. Don't over think things.

that is all

Mastercheddaar
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: hhhh Reply with quote

Mastercheddaar wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
DizzyDean wrote:

As stated, quite clearly I thought, pro secondaries and college secondaries are not created equally. The history of the NFL is littered with QBs with similar numbers that came to the NFL and tanked.

I cited game tape, with a game tape of a true franchise QB prospect to compare to.

If you can't watch the 2 supplied videos and see the obvious difference, then I can't really help you. Just kick back with your wings and enjoy the game casually and try not to overthink things.






Oh no Dawg the rookie sensation with his 23 forum posts is coming to educate you all about foosball. Don't over think things.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


quality over quantity. Smile Also, while I may be a rookie to this site, I think its safe to say that I have been a fan longer, and watched more games, and actually paid more attention to those games, than most here, at least in the Browns section.

That said, I just read that Haslim may Manziel us again by forcing a pick that the team doesn't really want just to draft a QB. I sure hope not.
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DaWg_LB.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: hhhh Reply with quote

Mastercheddaar wrote:
Oh no Dawg the rookie sensation with his 23 forum posts is coming to educate you all about foosball. Don't over think things.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


EXACTLY!!!!!!
But I love the Kid's Moxy...he's got good spirit...even if he's a little slow to pick up on the Standard that we as the Browns Posters set on this site...we have one of the most active and visited forums for a reason.....
We just gotta get Good ole Dizz up to speed old school style







Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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DizzyDean


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: hhhh Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
Mastercheddaar wrote:
Oh no Dawg the rookie sensation with his 23 forum posts is coming to educate you all about foosball. Don't over think things.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


EXACTLY!!!!!!
But I love the Kid's Moxy...he's got good spirit...even if he's a little slow to pick up on the Standard that we as the Browns Posters set on this site...we have one of the most active and visited forums for a reason.....
We just gotta get Good ole Dizz up to speed old school style







Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


active, yes, however active doesn't always equate to expertise.
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