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KIRK TRADE TALK THREAD 2017 spring edition episode 3
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
He's not getting traded. The front office said they won't trade him. There were like two articles out today quoting Kirk Cousins himself saying he expects to be a Redskin this year because the team told him he won't be traded.


With Allen now in charge, I completely believe it because it's a terrible decision. If you don't have a long term deal by the draft, Cousins is gone (or you have to franchise him again).

Houston is a prime candidate. They got rid of Osweiler. They aren't getting Romo. They have a stacked defense, a decent run game, and pass catchers.

Take their first rounder and go.
We don't have Houston's talent on defense. The comparison doesn't wirk for us.

Houston will do what they do every year, be lucky to win 9 games because of the strength of their defense and fail in the playoffs. I'd rather have a qb who gives us a chance to be more than that, all we have to do is get better than average on defense like the Giants and Falcons did last offseason and we're there! :lol.


Houston is a prime candidate to trade for Cousins. With Cousins, they're a Super Bowl contender.

The defense will not be good enough next season. Cousins is gone after this season without a long term deal. Trade him now while you can get a first rounder.
Oh yes, sorry I misunderstood your point before. I'd say if we were going to trade Cousins to Houston though in return we should get a guy like Whitney Mercilus or Clowney in return as well as a 1st or 2nd round pick.

If we are trading a qb who's played like a top 10 qb for most of the last two seasons we should get an immediate starter at another position in return or a qb who can challenge Mccoy as our starter and a 1st or 2nd round pick.


Lol, the Redskins have no leverage. None. If they get a first round offer, take it. Anyone who thinks San Fransisco or Cleveland is going to cough up their first rounder is living in a pipe dream.
The skins don't have leverage in negotiations with Kirk, but they most certainly have multiple trade options should they chose to use them and that will drive the trade value of Kirk up.

The way I see it:

Browns, 49ers, Jets, Broncos and Texans should all be interested in him. If any of these teams get Kirk they go from being at best a hopeful .500 team to possibly a playoff contender for the Browns, 49ers, Jets and a super bowl contender for the Broncos and Texans given their great defenses and wr corps.

We can get back a player/young qb prospect that they have on their roster now or one of their starters on defense and a draft pick as well.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Well, see, here's the issue with continuing to wait this thing out, it's only going to make his price go higher and higher. After Carr, Ryan and Rodgers sign deals that dwarf Lucks contract it's going to push Kirks way beyond what they want to pay. Again, this whole thing is stupid. If they won't pay him what he wants right now and are trying to lower his price it's going to get even worse after those guys sign. They did the correct thing tagging him after his first year starting but they're just being completely stupid about it at this point. Unless he completely bombs his contract numbers are just going to climb the longer they put this off. They played chicken and they lost, pay up or trade him.


With the exception of "doing the right thing tagging him", its like you're in my head. Everything (but that exception) is what Ive said ad nauseum about this whole situation.
I agree with you 100 Thai - they didn't do the right thing by tagging him last year, they should have offered the $20 M avg per year and $44 M guaranteed last offseason - tagging him and not giving him a better offer on a long term deal last year was STOOPID!!! and I agree with what HTTR and Mknight said on the previous page as well.

The Redskins have never been an organization that tanks for a year or two ala the Cowboys in the late 80s - to their benefit while they reload and build a young core who could be good for the next decade - to their own detriment.

Tanking would mean trading Kirk away and getting back Matt Barkley, Cody Kessler/Brock Osweiler, Hackenberg/Petty, Simien/Lynch or Savage/Weeden back in return as well as a 1st round pick and a mid round pick and having that guy start over clot Mccoy (which Gruden would never do) or trading away Kirk and starting Sudfeld for a season. It's basically what Shanahan could have done in 2011 when we could have started Beck over Grossman and "sucked for Luck" but of course a HC is going to want to play the best player at all times so we end up 5-11 instead of 1-15 or 2-14.

Let's put this in perspective, if Kirk isn't going to be here long term because Dan/Bruce don't want ongive Jim a Luck type deal, trading him away and getting one of theee Qbs to suck with in 2016, a 2nd round pick this year, that team's next year's 1st it could end up being better than keeping Kirk and keeping his $18 to 25 million cap hit for the next 5 to 10 years.

Especially considering we'd be sucking for Sam Donald and I think that guy is going to be a sure fire super star.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
The skins don't have leverage in negotiations with Kirk, but they most certainly have multiple trade options should they chose to use them and that will drive the trade value of Kirk up.

The way I see it:

Browns, 49ers, Jets, Broncos and Texans should all be interested in him. If any of these teams get Kirk they go from being at best a hopeful .500 team to possibly a playoff contender for the Browns, 49ers, Jets and a super bowl contender for the Broncos and Texans given their great defenses and wr corps.

We can get back a player/young qb prospect that they have on their roster now or one of their starters on defense and a draft pick as well.


The Redskins have no leverage in a trade any more. Its obvious they don't want to pay Cousins. Very few teams are going give up a ton for a one year rental.

Broncos and Texans are the only viable team. Both have prime defenses and ready made offenses. The Jets offense has a lot holes. With Cousins, it's doubtful they make the playoffs. Broncos are committed to their young QBs. That leaves Houston.

The Browns and 49ers aren't going to give up picks or players when they can simply wait out a non-playoff season and sign him to the money they want.

Someone offers a first rounder, the Skins need to take it. Which means Allen won't. Because he's an idiot.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The skins don't have leverage in negotiations with Kirk, but they most certainly have multiple trade options should they chose to use them and that will drive the trade value of Kirk up.

The way I see it:

Browns, 49ers, Jets, Broncos and Texans should all be interested in him. If any of these teams get Kirk they go from being at best a hopeful .500 team to possibly a playoff contender for the Browns, 49ers, Jets and a super bowl contender for the Broncos and Texans given their great defenses and wr corps.

We can get back a player/young qb prospect that they have on their roster now or one of their starters on defense and a draft pick as well.


The Redskins have no leverage in a trade any more. Its obvious they don't want to pay Cousins. Very few teams are going give up a ton for a one year rental.

Broncos and Texans are the only viable team. Both have prime defenses and ready made offenses. The Jets offense has a lot holes. With Cousins, it's doubtful they make the playoffs. Broncos are committed to their young QBs. That leaves Houston.

The Browns and 49ers aren't going to give up picks or players when they can simply wait out a non-playoff season and sign him to the money they want.

Someone offers a first rounder, the Skins need to take it. Which means Allen won't. Because he's an idiot.


I know what Elway says in public but I don't believe him, after all he's learned from Shanahan. He learned you just don't show your cards in public, who ever thought in 2012 that they'd trade Tebow and sign an injured Peyton Manning before it happened and if they acquired Kirk they'd have a better team than they did in 2015 when they won the Super Bowl IMO.

Texans we agree.

The reason teams like the 49ers, Browns and Jets would trade for Kirk is to ensure that they'd get him and they wouldn't have to be in a bidding war for his services next offseason. Also, next offseason Kirk's contract price will almost surely go up as he keeps improving year to year. Yes, it's suck to lose a few picks or a good player but if your getting a pro bowl caliber qb then it's worth it.

Heck, the Jets want to trade Sheldon Richardson already. They could probably give us him, Hackenberg or Petty and their 1st or 2nd rounder and get the deal done. We'd presumably get two starters out of the trade and possibly a future staring qb. If the Jets traded for Kirk I'm sure they'd spend their first few picks on offensive linemen, a wide receiver and TE for Kirk to work with. The Jets do still have Matt Forte @ RB; Decker, Quincy Enunwa, Devin Smith @ outside WR, Jason Marshall @ slot WR and Austin Seferian-Jenkins @ TE.

49ers & Browns picked up some WRs and TEs and have some young ones developing on the roster, both teams just don't have a qb they can rely on. There's no reason why they both couldn't be similar to the Redskins in 15 & 16 w/ Kirk at the helm.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care who it is ..I just want to hear on Draft Day--"We have a trade" and it involves Kirk Cousins. Again-- I like him ! I don't want to pay what he's asking
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I don't care who it is ..I just want to hear on Draft Day--"We have a trade" and it involves Kirk Cousins. Again-- I like him ! I don't want to pay what he's asking
That's like the guy who says not that there's anything wrong with that but... blah blah blah. Either you like him and believe he is or is going to be a franchise qb or you don't. Obviously you don't, which is fine but if you really liked him you really won't care if he made as much as Luck because you'd believe he could get the job done and you'd question if Mccoy, another vet or a rookie could develop and eventually get the job done soon.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I don't care who it is ..I just want to hear on Draft Day--"We have a trade" and it involves Kirk Cousins. Again-- I like him ! I don't want to pay what he's asking
That's like the guy who says not that there's anything wrong with that but... blah blah blah. Either you like him and believe he is or is going to be a franchise qb or you don't. Obviously you don't, which is fine but if you really liked him you really won't care if he made as much as Luck because you'd believe he could get the job done and you'd question if Mccoy, another vet or a rookie could develop and eventually get the job done soon.


You are absolutely right . Bottom line, I guess I just don't think he's the guy.
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Skinsin2013


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I don't care who it is ..I just want to hear on Draft Day--"We have a trade" and it involves Kirk Cousins. Again-- I like him ! I don't want to pay what he's asking
That's like the guy who says not that there's anything wrong with that but... blah blah blah. Either you like him and believe he is or is going to be a franchise qb or you don't. Obviously you don't, which is fine but if you really liked him you really won't care if he made as much as Luck because you'd believe he could get the job done and you'd question if Mccoy, another vet or a rookie could develop and eventually get the job done soon.


You are absolutely right . Bottom line, I guess I just don't think he's the guy.


I actually see Cousins as a guy that could win a SB.

Not much different than Manning his first few years. You could nitpick that to death of course. But Manning threw pickles his first year and then started to get them under control. Hell, his fourth year was 26/23. Lost his first three playoff games too.

You look back at the last few seasons and there's been a clear theme... our defense is REALLY bad. If they were AVERAGE, Kirk's stats are probably better... and we're running the ball more. Simply because we'd be ahead in more games and winning more games.

That said... you trade him if he doesn't want to be here. I'm a Kirk guy. But if Snyder/Allen have pissed him off that much, you get what you can while you can. You put your best offer on the table and if he rejects it, you gotta ship him. Hell, I don't feel any different about Bryce Harper or anyone else for that matter. Good teams make tough decisions.

[If he doesn't want to be here] It would be great to see us get a top 5 pick back... then we trade back. So let's get stupid:

-Skins trade Cousins to the Niners for Hoyer and the #2.

--Skins then trade the #2 to the Panthers for:
Panthers get: 1-2, 4-124
Skins get: 1-8, 2-40
Panthers draft Fournette at #2
Skins draft Trubisky

Washington gets: 1-15
Bills get: 1-17, 5-154
Skins draft Barnett

Washington, 2-40, selects Feeney
Washington, 2-49 selects Mixon

All I'm saying is Cousins for a top 5 pick... then a trade back... not so bad. That said, a long-term deal would be optimal!
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skinsin2013 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I don't care who it is ..I just want to hear on Draft Day--"We have a trade" and it involves Kirk Cousins. Again-- I like him ! I don't want to pay what he's asking
That's like the guy who says not that there's anything wrong with that but... blah blah blah. Either you like him and believe he is or is going to be a franchise qb or you don't. Obviously you don't, which is fine but if you really liked him you really won't care if he made as much as Luck because you'd believe he could get the job done and you'd question if Mccoy, another vet or a rookie could develop and eventually get the job done soon.


You are absolutely right . Bottom line, I guess I just don't think he's the guy.


I actually see Cousins as a guy that could win a SB.

Not much different than Manning his first few years. You could nitpick that to death of course. But Manning threw pickles his first year and then started to get them under control. Hell, his fourth year was 26/23. Lost his first three playoff games too.

You look back at the last few seasons and there's been a clear theme... our defense is REALLY bad. If they were AVERAGE, Kirk's stats are probably better... and we're running the ball more. Simply because we'd be ahead in more games and winning more games.

That said... you trade him if he doesn't want to be here. I'm a Kirk guy. But if Snyder/Allen have pissed him off that much, you get what you can while you can. You put your best offer on the table and if he rejects it, you gotta ship him. Hell, I don't feel any different about Bryce Harper or anyone else for that matter. Good teams make tough decisions.

[If he doesn't want to be here] It would be great to see us get a top 5 pick back... then we trade back. So let's get stupid:

-Skins trade Cousins to the Niners for Hoyer and the #2.

--Skins then trade the #2 to the Panthers for:
Panthers get: 1-2, 4-124
Skins get: 1-8, 2-40
Panthers draft Fournette at #2
Skins draft Trubisky

Washington gets: 1-15
Bills get: 1-17, 5-154
Skins draft Barnett

Washington, 2-40, selects Feeney
Washington, 2-49 selects Mixon

All I'm saying is Cousins for a top 5 pick... then a trade back... not so bad. That said, a long-term deal would be optimal!
The problem with this is Mitch Trubisky is not a good QB prospect. He's going to be a huge bust. He started one freaking season at UNC. He's Mark Sanchez 2.0. If we trade Cousins we are better off moving him after the draft for picks in next year's draft IMO.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The skins don't have leverage in negotiations with Kirk, but they most certainly have multiple trade options should they chose to use them and that will drive the trade value of Kirk up.

The way I see it:

Browns, 49ers, Jets, Broncos and Texans should all be interested in him. If any of these teams get Kirk they go from being at best a hopeful .500 team to possibly a playoff contender for the Browns, 49ers, Jets and a super bowl contender for the Broncos and Texans given their great defenses and wr corps.

We can get back a player/young qb prospect that they have on their roster now or one of their starters on defense and a draft pick as well.


The Redskins have no leverage in a trade any more. Its obvious they don't want to pay Cousins. Very few teams are going give up a ton for a one year rental.

Broncos and Texans are the only viable team. Both have prime defenses and ready made offenses. The Jets offense has a lot holes. With Cousins, it's doubtful they make the playoffs. Broncos are committed to their young QBs. That leaves Houston.

The Browns and 49ers aren't going to give up picks or players when they can simply wait out a non-playoff season and sign him to the money they want.

Someone offers a first rounder, the Skins need to take it. Which means Allen won't. Because he's an idiot.


I know what Elway says in public but I don't believe him, after all he's learned from Shanahan. He learned you just don't show your cards in public, who ever thought in 2012 that they'd trade Tebow and sign an injured Peyton Manning before it happened and if they acquired Kirk they'd have a better team than they did in 2015 when they won the Super Bowl IMO.

Texans we agree.

The reason teams like the 49ers, Browns and Jets would trade for Kirk is to ensure that they'd get him and they wouldn't have to be in a bidding war for his services next offseason. Also, next offseason Kirk's contract price will almost surely go up as he keeps improving year to year. Yes, it's suck to lose a few picks or a good player but if your getting a pro bowl caliber qb then it's worth it.

Heck, the Jets want to trade Sheldon Richardson already. They could probably give us him, Hackenberg or Petty and their 1st or 2nd rounder and get the deal done. We'd presumably get two starters out of the trade and possibly a future staring qb. If the Jets traded for Kirk I'm sure they'd spend their first few picks on offensive linemen, a wide receiver and TE for Kirk to work with. The Jets do still have Matt Forte @ RB; Decker, Quincy Enunwa, Devin Smith @ outside WR, Jason Marshall @ slot WR and Austin Seferian-Jenkins @ TE.

49ers & Browns picked up some WRs and TEs and have some young ones developing on the roster, both teams just don't have a qb they can rely on. There's no reason why they both couldn't be similar to the Redskins in 15 & 16 w/ Kirk at the helm.


Trading for Cousins does nothing to guarantee signing him long term. What he wants is obvious. Its a one year rental.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
Trading for Cousins does nothing to guarantee signing him long term. What he wants is obvious. Its a one year rental.


Cousins wants security. He wants to feel wanted. If a team was willing to trade for him, that would show they want him. He would immediately be able to negotiate a long term deal, something you have to think he would be amenable to. That said, I suspect his new team would require a condition in the deal that if he didn't sign long term, then the Redskins would have to give them something back (say, our 2018 2nd round pick) to make up the loss.
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Skinsin2013 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I don't care who it is ..I just want to hear on Draft Day--"We have a trade" and it involves Kirk Cousins. Again-- I like him ! I don't want to pay what he's asking
That's like the guy who says not that there's anything wrong with that but... blah blah blah. Either you like him and believe he is or is going to be a franchise qb or you don't. Obviously you don't, which is fine but if you really liked him you really won't care if he made as much as Luck because you'd believe he could get the job done and you'd question if Mccoy, another vet or a rookie could develop and eventually get the job done soon.


You are absolutely right . Bottom line, I guess I just don't think he's the guy.


I actually see Cousins as a guy that could win a SB.

Not much different than Manning his first few years. You could nitpick that to death of course. But Manning threw pickles his first year and then started to get them under control. Hell, his fourth year was 26/23. Lost his first three playoff games too.

You look back at the last few seasons and there's been a clear theme... our defense is REALLY bad. If they were AVERAGE, Kirk's stats are probably better... and we're running the ball more. Simply because we'd be ahead in more games and winning more games.

That said... you trade him if he doesn't want to be here. I'm a Kirk guy. But if Snyder/Allen have pissed him off that much, you get what you can while you can. You put your best offer on the table and if he rejects it, you gotta ship him. Hell, I don't feel any different about Bryce Harper or anyone else for that matter. Good teams make tough decisions.

[If he doesn't want to be here] It would be great to see us get a top 5 pick back... then we trade back. So let's get stupid:

-Skins trade Cousins to the Niners for Hoyer and the #2.

--Skins then trade the #2 to the Panthers for:
Panthers get: 1-2, 4-124
Skins get: 1-8, 2-40
Panthers draft Fournette at #2
Skins draft Trubisky

Washington gets: 1-15
Bills get: 1-17, 5-154
Skins draft Barnett

Washington, 2-40, selects Feeney
Washington, 2-49 selects Mixon

All I'm saying is Cousins for a top 5 pick... then a trade back... not so bad. That said, a long-term deal would be optimal!
The problem with this is Mitch Trubisky is not a good QB prospect. He's going to be a huge bust. He started one freaking season at UNC. He's Mark Sanchez 2.0. If we trade Cousins we are better off moving him after the draft for picks in next year's draft IMO.


Plus 1. There are multiple franchise QB prospects next year. This year there are none. If you can't sign him long term before the draft you have to trade him for a future 1 and other picks to accumulate enough to trade up next year if you have to
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor little abused millionaire ! Laughing I just want to be wanted !!
Gawd--I'm as sick of hearing that as I was "All in for Week 1 ".. Twisted Evil

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801181/article/kirk-cousins-i-want-to-be-where-im-wanted
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Poor little abused millionaire ! Laughing I just want to be wanted !!
Gawd--I'm as sick of hearing that as I was "All in for Week 1 ".. Twisted Evil

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801181/article/kirk-cousins-i-want-to-be-where-im-wanted


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJs_L7yq5qE

I'm sick of it too. Dude will make more this year and last than most of the world population ever sees. Quit crying and sign a deal or go sign somewhere that makes you a Billionaire. Don't care anymore. But I blame Snyder and Allen for this mess.

Oh, and Dan Snyder sell the team to a person who is not Evil, and Bruce Allen fire yourself. Then I'd be happy for this team...
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Poor little abused millionaire ! Laughing I just want to be wanted !!
Gawd--I'm as sick of hearing that as I was "All in for Week 1 ".. Twisted Evil

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801181/article/kirk-cousins-i-want-to-be-where-im-wanted


Yea, it's like nails on a chalkboard at this point.
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