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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
The OUTLAW wrote:
I don't want to sound too over the top, but IMO this is awful and it would be a ridiculous way for the team to try to do. Sure Clowney is a good player (if oft injured) but aren't you giving up a younger "generational" talent to get him all the while hoping that the injuries don't continue?

IMO this is as awful as it could possibly be


Clowney was also a "generational talent." Difference is that you're getting Clowney and a haul of other players.

Y'all are acting ridiculous. If you want to see "as awful as it could possibly be," go look at your drafting over the past 5-10 years or the Rams' drafting from 2000 to 2009 and 2016 #1 overall pick

Clowney, alone, almost beats that. Laughing


fify

Do you want to get the haul of picks or get the best player in the draft.

You just called out the Browns horrible drafting but the Browns draft strategy was trade back and get a haul of other players for awhile there and it never worked

Where Clowny's career is right now at the moment, Garrett has the potential to surpass him by his 3rd year. Injuries have really hurt Clowney. Now saying Clowney cant recover and get back on his career projection but who knows

He has had his knee cleaned out for his meniscus and he has had microfracture surgery. Honestly the microfracture surgery might be enough to want me to keep away. I had microfracture on my knee and it was done by an NFL doctor and I played DII ball. To this day I have a lot of issues with my knee and I just turned 29. I had the surgery when I was 19-20. I dont like the idea of trading for a defensive end who is going to have cartilage issues with his knees specially when he is only 24 years old and really hasnt played much in his career. Get him playing 15-16 games for the next couple years, who knows how that knee reacts.

If we were talking about type DEs, I think I would take Clowney over them but when its Garrett or Clowney. I dont know about that.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Through round 5... How horrible is it?

My biggest regret is not getting another secondary player, but they all went off the board quick. I was hoping to get Sidney Jones or Fabian Moreau in the 2nd as immediate impact isn't as big a need for you guys, but they both got picked. With that said, Tyus Bowswer is a steal at 52. I traded up a couple of spots to grab Roderick Johnson. He is an elite level athlete who I hope can develop behind Thomas for a year or two (something Johnson needs anyway).

Humphery at 12 wasn't my favorite pick, but I do like his game and love his physicality. His playing style can change the demeanor of a defense. I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.

Jordan Leggett is an underrated TE imo and allows you a two TE set. He is a smooth player who will be a good pro.

Tatupu_64 wrote:


DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

DEPTH CHART
QB: Jimmy Garoppolo || Cody Kessler || Chad Kelly
RB: Isaiah Crowell || Duke Johnson || Darius Jackson || George Atkinson
FB: Dan Vitale
TE: Gary Barnidge || Jordan Leggett || Randall Telfer || Seth DeValve
WR1: Kenny Britt || Ricardo Louis || Mario Alford
WR2: Corey Coleman || KD Cannon || Rashard Higgins || Jordan Payton
LT: Joe Thomas || Roderick Johnson || Matt McCants || Zach Sterup
LG: Joel Bitonio || Spencer Drango
C: JC Tretter || Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler || John Greco
RT: Shon Coleman || Austin Pasztor || Cameron Erving

LE: Myles Garrett || Tyrone Holmes
NT: Danny Shelton || Jamie Meder || Gabe Wright
UT: Xavier Cooper || Desmond Bryant
RE: Emmanuel Ogbah || Carl Nassib
SLB: Tyus Bowswer || Nate Orchard || Joe Schobert
MLB: Christian Kirksey || Demario Davis || Tank Carder || Dominque Alexander
WLB: Jamie Collins || James Burgess
LCB: Joe Haden || Briean Boddy-Calhoun || Darius Hillary
RCB: Marlon Humphery || Jamar Taylor || Tracy Howard
NCB: Jamar Taylor || Marcus Burley
FS: Ed Reynolds || Trey Caldwell
SS: Ibraheim Campbell || Tyvis Powell

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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Through round 5... How horrible is it?

My biggest regret is not getting another secondary player, but they all went off the board quick. I was hoping to get Sidney Jones or Fabian Moreau in the 2nd as immediate impact isn't as big a need for you guys, but they both got picked. With that said, Tyus Bowswer is a steal at 52. I traded up a couple of spots to grab Roderick Johnson. He is an elite level athlete who I hope can develop behind Thomas for a year or two (something Johnson needs anyway).

Humphery at 12 wasn't my favorite pick, but I do like his game and love his physicality. His playing style can change the demeanor of a defense. I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.

Jordan Leggett is an underrated TE imo and allows you a two TE set. He is a smooth player who will be a good pro.

Tatupu_64 wrote:


DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

DEPTH CHART
QB: Jimmy Garoppolo || Cody Kessler || Chad Kelly
RB: Isaiah Crowell || Duke Johnson || Darius Jackson || George Atkinson
FB: Dan Vitale
TE: Gary Barnidge || Jordan Leggett || Randall Telfer || Seth DeValve
WR1: Kenny Britt || Ricardo Louis || Mario Alford
WR2: Corey Coleman || KD Cannon || Rashard Higgins || Jordan Payton
LT: Joe Thomas || Roderick Johnson || Matt McCants || Zach Sterup
LG: Joel Bitonio || Spencer Drango
C: JC Tretter || Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler || John Greco
RT: Shon Coleman || Austin Pasztor || Cameron Erving

LE: Myles Garrett || Tyrone Holmes
NT: Danny Shelton || Jamie Meder || Gabe Wright
UT: Xavier Cooper || Desmond Bryant
RE: Emmanuel Ogbah || Carl Nassib
SLB: Tyus Bowswer || Nate Orchard || Joe Schobert
MLB: Christian Kirksey || Demario Davis || Tank Carder || Dominque Alexander
WLB: Jamie Collins || James Burgess
LCB: Joe Haden || Briean Boddy-Calhoun || Darius Hillary
RCB: Marlon Humphery || Jamar Taylor || Tracy Howard
NCB: Jamar Taylor || Marcus Burley
FS: Ed Reynolds || Trey Caldwell
SS: Ibraheim Campbell || Tyvis Powell


Well 5 of the 8 picks were dedicated to offense and only the one we traded results in an immediate starter. I wouldn't be thrilled.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Through round 5... How horrible is it?

My biggest regret is not getting another secondary player, but they all went off the board quick. I was hoping to get Sidney Jones or Fabian Moreau in the 2nd as immediate impact isn't as big a need for you guys, but they both got picked. With that said, Tyus Bowswer is a steal at 52. I traded up a couple of spots to grab Roderick Johnson. He is an elite level athlete who I hope can develop behind Thomas for a year or two (something Johnson needs anyway).

Humphery at 12 wasn't my favorite pick, but I do like his game and love his physicality. His playing style can change the demeanor of a defense. I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.

Jordan Leggett is an underrated TE imo and allows you a two TE set. He is a smooth player who will be a good pro.

Tatupu_64 wrote:


DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

DEPTH CHART
QB: Jimmy Garoppolo || Cody Kessler || Chad Kelly
RB: Isaiah Crowell || Duke Johnson || Darius Jackson || George Atkinson
FB: Dan Vitale
TE: Gary Barnidge || Jordan Leggett || Randall Telfer || Seth DeValve
WR1: Kenny Britt || Ricardo Louis || Mario Alford
WR2: Corey Coleman || KD Cannon || Rashard Higgins || Jordan Payton
LT: Joe Thomas || Roderick Johnson || Matt McCants || Zach Sterup
LG: Joel Bitonio || Spencer Drango
C: JC Tretter || Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler || John Greco
RT: Shon Coleman || Austin Pasztor || Cameron Erving

LE: Myles Garrett || Tyrone Holmes
NT: Danny Shelton || Jamie Meder || Gabe Wright
UT: Xavier Cooper || Desmond Bryant
RE: Emmanuel Ogbah || Carl Nassib
SLB: Tyus Bowswer || Nate Orchard || Joe Schobert
MLB: Christian Kirksey || Demario Davis || Tank Carder || Dominque Alexander
WLB: Jamie Collins || James Burgess
LCB: Joe Haden || Briean Boddy-Calhoun || Darius Hillary
RCB: Marlon Humphery || Jamar Taylor || Tracy Howard
NCB: Jamar Taylor || Marcus Burley
FS: Ed Reynolds || Trey Caldwell
SS: Ibraheim Campbell || Tyvis Powell


Well 5 of the 8 picks were dedicated to offense and only the one we traded results in an immediate starter. I wouldn't be thrilled.
TE2 is a starter. As someone whose team has gone from a hall of fame LT to garbage, Roderick Johnson being groomed is a huge plus. No offense, but the browns should be a lot more concerned with adding talent than they should be about immediate starters
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NudeTayne


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Through round 5... How horrible is it?

My biggest regret is not getting another secondary player, but they all went off the board quick. I was hoping to get Sidney Jones or Fabian Moreau in the 2nd as immediate impact isn't as big a need for you guys, but they both got picked. With that said, Tyus Bowswer is a steal at 52. I traded up a couple of spots to grab Roderick Johnson. He is an elite level athlete who I hope can develop behind Thomas for a year or two (something Johnson needs anyway).

Humphery at 12 wasn't my favorite pick, but I do like his game and love his physicality. His playing style can change the demeanor of a defense. I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.

Jordan Leggett is an underrated TE imo and allows you a two TE set. He is a smooth player who will be a good pro.

Tatupu_64 wrote:


DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

DEPTH CHART
QB: Jimmy Garoppolo || Cody Kessler || Chad Kelly
RB: Isaiah Crowell || Duke Johnson || Darius Jackson || George Atkinson
FB: Dan Vitale
TE: Gary Barnidge || Jordan Leggett || Randall Telfer || Seth DeValve
WR1: Kenny Britt || Ricardo Louis || Mario Alford
WR2: Corey Coleman || KD Cannon || Rashard Higgins || Jordan Payton
LT: Joe Thomas || Roderick Johnson || Matt McCants || Zach Sterup
LG: Joel Bitonio || Spencer Drango
C: JC Tretter || Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler || John Greco
RT: Shon Coleman || Austin Pasztor || Cameron Erving

LE: Myles Garrett || Tyrone Holmes
NT: Danny Shelton || Jamie Meder || Gabe Wright
UT: Xavier Cooper || Desmond Bryant
RE: Emmanuel Ogbah || Carl Nassib
SLB: Tyus Bowswer || Nate Orchard || Joe Schobert
MLB: Christian Kirksey || Demario Davis || Tank Carder || Dominque Alexander
WLB: Jamie Collins || James Burgess
LCB: Joe Haden || Briean Boddy-Calhoun || Darius Hillary
RCB: Marlon Humphery || Jamar Taylor || Tracy Howard
NCB: Jamar Taylor || Marcus Burley
FS: Ed Reynolds || Trey Caldwell
SS: Ibraheim Campbell || Tyvis Powell


Well 5 of the 8 picks were dedicated to offense and only the one we traded results in an immediate starter. I wouldn't be thrilled.


Yeah, gotta say it's a D for me. With the depth at CB in this draft (and Marlon Humphrey being a reach as is at #12), I would hate that pick. It doesn't matter how good of a value Bowser is at 52 if he'd be on the bench. He is not starting over Garrett & Ogbah and probably not over Nassib, assuming Nassib is healthy; it's total overkill when the team lacks so many other positions. That's decent value for Roderick Johnson but see the sentence before this--need players who potentially will see the field this year. Leggett is fine but not my favorite (Gregg Williams preaches wanting players who love football and he DID get the name "Lazy Leggett"). I don't especially want Janeane, though at least you didn't have us getting trade-raped to get him. Cannon ran much slower than expected for being an alleged "speed player". The value is fine there, though. That's my $0.02. I've seen worse, though. Check out the first page of this thread Laughing.

*edit: I see you have Bowser at SLB in a 4-3. The value is about where he will likely go, but isn't he more of a 3-4 pass rusher? I don't see it happening, but I'd trust Gregg if we did it.*
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dawgdish


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Through round 5... How horrible is it?

My biggest regret is not getting another secondary player, but they all went off the board quick. I was hoping to get Sidney Jones or Fabian Moreau in the 2nd as immediate impact isn't as big a need for you guys, but they both got picked. With that said, Tyus Bowswer is a steal at 52. I traded up a couple of spots to grab Roderick Johnson. He is an elite level athlete who I hope can develop behind Thomas for a year or two (something Johnson needs anyway).

Humphery at 12 wasn't my favorite pick, but I do like his game and love his physicality. His playing style can change the demeanor of a defense. I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.

Jordan Leggett is an underrated TE imo and allows you a two TE set. He is a smooth player who will be a good pro.

Tatupu_64 wrote:


DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

DEPTH CHART
QB: Jimmy Garoppolo || Cody Kessler || Chad Kelly
RB: Isaiah Crowell || Duke Johnson || Darius Jackson || George Atkinson
FB: Dan Vitale
TE: Gary Barnidge || Jordan Leggett || Randall Telfer || Seth DeValve
WR1: Kenny Britt || Ricardo Louis || Mario Alford
WR2: Corey Coleman || KD Cannon || Rashard Higgins || Jordan Payton
LT: Joe Thomas || Roderick Johnson || Matt McCants || Zach Sterup
LG: Joel Bitonio || Spencer Drango
C: JC Tretter || Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler || John Greco
RT: Shon Coleman || Austin Pasztor || Cameron Erving

LE: Myles Garrett || Tyrone Holmes
NT: Danny Shelton || Jamie Meder || Gabe Wright
UT: Xavier Cooper || Desmond Bryant
RE: Emmanuel Ogbah || Carl Nassib
SLB: Tyus Bowswer || Nate Orchard || Joe Schobert
MLB: Christian Kirksey || Demario Davis || Tank Carder || Dominque Alexander
WLB: Jamie Collins || James Burgess
LCB: Joe Haden || Briean Boddy-Calhoun || Darius Hillary
RCB: Marlon Humphery || Jamar Taylor || Tracy Howard
NCB: Jamar Taylor || Marcus Burley
FS: Ed Reynolds || Trey Caldwell
SS: Ibraheim Campbell || Tyvis Powell


I like Garrett at #1 and the way you addressed the QB position, not crazy about the rest
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buno67


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Through round 5... How horrible is it?

My biggest regret is not getting another secondary player, but they all went off the board quick. I was hoping to get Sidney Jones or Fabian Moreau in the 2nd as immediate impact isn't as big a need for you guys, but they both got picked. With that said, Tyus Bowswer is a steal at 52. I traded up a couple of spots to grab Roderick Johnson. He is an elite level athlete who I hope can develop behind Thomas for a year or two (something Johnson needs anyway).

Humphery at 12 wasn't my favorite pick, but I do like his game and love his physicality. His playing style can change the demeanor of a defense. I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.

Jordan Leggett is an underrated TE imo and allows you a two TE set. He is a smooth player who will be a good pro.

Tatupu_64 wrote:


DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

DEPTH CHART
QB: Jimmy Garoppolo || Cody Kessler || Chad Kelly
RB: Isaiah Crowell || Duke Johnson || Darius Jackson || George Atkinson
FB: Dan Vitale
TE: Gary Barnidge || Jordan Leggett || Randall Telfer || Seth DeValve
WR1: Kenny Britt || Ricardo Louis || Mario Alford
WR2: Corey Coleman || KD Cannon || Rashard Higgins || Jordan Payton
LT: Joe Thomas || Roderick Johnson || Matt McCants || Zach Sterup
LG: Joel Bitonio || Spencer Drango
C: JC Tretter || Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler || John Greco
RT: Shon Coleman || Austin Pasztor || Cameron Erving

LE: Myles Garrett || Tyrone Holmes
NT: Danny Shelton || Jamie Meder || Gabe Wright
UT: Xavier Cooper || Desmond Bryant
RE: Emmanuel Ogbah || Carl Nassib
SLB: Tyus Bowswer || Nate Orchard || Joe Schobert
MLB: Christian Kirksey || Demario Davis || Tank Carder || Dominque Alexander
WLB: Jamie Collins || James Burgess
LCB: Joe Haden || Briean Boddy-Calhoun || Darius Hillary
RCB: Marlon Humphery || Jamar Taylor || Tracy Howard
NCB: Jamar Taylor || Marcus Burley
FS: Ed Reynolds || Trey Caldwell
SS: Ibraheim Campbell || Tyvis Powell


An Alabama cornerback...color me disgusted. Also if you are drafting a corner in the top15 and you have to say to yourself "I also see him as a Safety at worst if corner doesn't prove to be his best fit.",you just talked yourself into a bust player. I dont trust corners from Bama. There great in college but the technique and skills they are taught are perfect for the Bama scheme and college game but when it comes to the NFL...not so much. One of the reason Watson has just destroyed Bama the past two season was because they had crap DBs.

Teams wont run on Bama but if a team can pass block, you will see a team light them up passing wise. To me thats why Bama always has such a nasty front 7, because they need it to be. In that title game, the front 7 for bama didnt really do anything, specially if you compare what they are acustom too. I feel like Bama has given up more 400+ yard passing games then they give up 100+ yards rushing. Like seriously if you can run for over 100, you pretty good. You would have to be a pretty specially team to rush for over 200+ yard son them Laughing
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freakygeniuskid


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, getting Garoppolo for a 2nd makes it at least decent to me.

I like Garrett.

I can live with Bowser (not sure how he'd get playing time in our D right now, but he's a good value pick), Johnson, Leggett, Cannon, and Kelly.

As most have pointed out, the Humphrey pick is the one that hurts. I think if Howard, Williams/Davis, Allen, Hooker, Adams, and Fournette are all gone, you move down with someone who wants a QB or corner, even if you don't get great value, because the guys in the 12-25 tier (unless one of the guys above drops) are all pretty even in my opinion.

The most glaring thing to me is the lack of Safety help. We might have the worst pair of safeties in the NFL right now and we never take a single safety. Maybe the board worked against it at every single pick, but I gotta think someone like Josh Jones or Marcus Williams might've been available at the Bowser or Johnson pick for instance.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All valid criticisms. I would add:

There is no way in hell the Browns give up multiple picks for an offensive tackle. Trading up for a player that will, in an ideal world, never see the field for at least two years is an enormous miscue. It show a veritable lack of understanding of the team's philosophy set forth by Paul Depodesta and Sashi Brown.

If you had the team trade back 15 picks and gain a 4th and a 5th, it would make much more sense. They traded back last year when Cody Kessler was the target in round 3. They traded down to get their QB. They went in with 10 picks and left with 14 (16 if you included added future picks).

Trust and believe they will not trade up in the middle rounds. It runs counter to their entire draft philosophy.

They probably had Cody Kessler rated higher than Daryl Worley, the player Carolina took when they traded up to 77 from 93. They still got their target QB and added Derick Kindred and Spencer Drango.

They did something similar at 100 with Oakland, where they had several equally rated WRs available. Instead of taking one, they move down to 114 and added 154, getting Ricardo Louis AND Jordan Payton instead of OR.

Expect more of that. Expect less of "targeting offensive linemen early".
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Wolfhunt


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRAFT
1. Cleveland - Myles Garrett, EDGE
12. Cleveland (via PHI) - Marlon Humphrey, CB
33. New England (via CLE) - Traded for Garoppolo
52. Cleveland (from Titans) - Tyus Bowser, EDGE
61. Cleveland (via DEN) - Roderick Johnson, LT
108. Cleveland - Jordan Leggett, TE
145. Cleveland - KD Cannon, WR
175. Cleveland (from Patriots) - Chad Kelly, QB

Humphrey....no thank you and a massive reach

Garoppolo....not worth #33 in my opinion as no game film and injury in 3 starts....not sold on NE backups as I thought all of them sucked....BB can hide the flaws of a QB in his system.

Bowser....backup as we have Ogbah on the other side..not worth spending that pick on a backup when this is such a deep draft in the secondary

Johnson...wouldn't mind this as he could play RT until JT retires

Leggett....good pick at that spot

Cannon....don't know enough about him to give accurate statement

Kelly....hell no!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't love Humphrey but getting Garoppolo for only 33 is a freaking coup. Garrett and Jimmy G. without giving up a haul is a realllllllllly good draft.
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