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Malcolm Butler
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Cadmus


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2337
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
No way in hell I'd give up our first round pick for Butler. So sick of having corners barely faster than our linebackers. I also don't want to give New England a first round pick.


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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11746
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer giving TT and co. the choice of what's likely to be a deep crop of potential impact players at 1.29.

The draft is shaping up to give us Butler's production at the fraction of the cost and with twice the upside.
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Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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deltarich87


Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 6052
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
No way in hell I'd give up our first round pick for Butler. So sick of having corners barely faster than our linebackers. I also don't want to give New England a first round pick.


Bingo. I'm also incredibly skeptical of how good he'd be outside of NE for obvious reasons. Doing something like this is just massively out of character for GB

Give up the 29th overall pick for Butler....and have to give him a monster contract extension(he said he wanted at least Gilmore money)

vs

Using that 1st rd pick on a CB(in a deep CB draft) who you can control for at least 4 yrs on a cheap rookie deal


Hmmmm, tough choice
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HorizontoZenith


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 4990
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
I prefer giving TT and co. the choice of what's likely to be a deep crop of potential impact players at 1.29.

The draft is shaping up to give us Butler's production at the fraction of the cost and with twice the upside.

And a lot more athleticism, too. I had no idea Butler ran a 4.62

I've had enough corners running in the 4.6 range to last me a lifetime in Dom's defense. Yeah, yeah, I know the 40 isn't everything, but it's a good ballpark figure to determine athleticism.

It also makes me certain that a better coordinator/coach could have gotten more out of last year's secondary.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah no chance I am remotely interested in giving up a first and a large contract for Butler. Makes no sense.
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vegas492


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draft is too loaded at corner to give up the pick...especially considering the cash that will go to Butler, and ultimately away from other homegrown talent that we know TT loves.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
I prefer giving TT and co. the choice of what's likely to be a deep crop of potential impact players at 1.29.

The draft is shaping up to give us Butler's production at the fraction of the cost and with twice the upside.

And a lot more athleticism, too. I had no idea Butler ran a 4.62

I've had enough corners running in the 4.6 range to last me a lifetime in Dom's defense. Yeah, yeah, I know the 40 isn't everything, but it's a good ballpark figure to determine athleticism.

It also makes me certain that a better coordinator/coach could have gotten more out of last year's secondary.


Yeah, agree. Lost me on your last point there, but I agree with adding some speed and pop on the boundary.

I still would like Jourdan Lewis in 2.
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17890
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
I prefer giving TT and co. the choice of what's likely to be a deep crop of potential impact players at 1.29.

The draft is shaping up to give us Butler's production at the fraction of the cost and with twice the upside.

And a lot more athleticism, too. I had no idea Butler ran a 4.62

I've had enough corners running in the 4.6 range to last me a lifetime in Dom's defense. Yeah, yeah, I know the 40 isn't everything, but it's a good ballpark figure to determine athleticism.

It also makes me certain that a better coordinator/coach could have gotten more out of last year's secondary.


Those numbers are bogus. That's not a 4.6+ athlete.
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cooters22


Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 352
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody hear any more about this kid? I personally hope we are targeting this kid. I wouldn't give up a first for him, but I'd toss them a 2nd all day long. I wish he had a touch more speed, but he's ok. I don't think you'd get a corner in this strong class as good as Malcom. I also hope we do this deal so we can grab a stud guard or a TJ Watt type and fill some other holes. And get that veteran that I think this team needs.
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gizmo2012


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3155
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooters22 wrote:
Anybody hear any more about this kid? I personally hope we are targeting this kid. I wouldn't give up a first for him, but I'd toss them a 2nd all day long. I wish he had a touch more speed, but he's ok. I don't think you'd get a corner in this strong class as good as Malcom. I also hope we do this deal so we can grab a stud guard or a TJ Watt type and fill some other holes. And get that veteran that I think this team needs.


Maybe we can trade Gunter or Rollins for Butler, what do you think? Just kidding. NE is too smart to give up Butler for too little so don't try to outsmart Bill Belichick ok TT.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 2744
Location: MKE
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deltarich87 wrote:
HorizontoZenith wrote:
No way in hell I'd give up our first round pick for Butler. So sick of having corners barely faster than our linebackers. I also don't want to give New England a first round pick.


Bingo. I'm also incredibly skeptical of how good he'd be outside of NE for obvious reasons. Doing something like this is just massively out of character for GB

Give up the 29th overall pick for Butler....and have to give him a monster contract extension(he said he wanted at least Gilmore money)

vs

Using that 1st rd pick on a CB(in a deep CB draft) who you can control for at least 4 yrs on a cheap rookie deal


Hmmmm, tough choice


If he's still available after the draft, and you like the player on tape, then you sign him to an offer after the 1st round and give up a 2018 first round pick. The risk? You go belly-up and lose a high pick. The reward? You add a potential pro-bowl CB plus a rookie CB to a defense that needs talent now.

Personally I don't make that deal, but unless you felt you were going to be worse next year, you don't give up the pick this year.
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Cadmus


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2337
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
deltarich87 wrote:
HorizontoZenith wrote:
No way in hell I'd give up our first round pick for Butler. So sick of having corners barely faster than our linebackers. I also don't want to give New England a first round pick.


Bingo. I'm also incredibly skeptical of how good he'd be outside of NE for obvious reasons. Doing something like this is just massively out of character for GB

Give up the 29th overall pick for Butler....and have to give him a monster contract extension(he said he wanted at least Gilmore money)

vs

Using that 1st rd pick on a CB(in a deep CB draft) who you can control for at least 4 yrs on a cheap rookie deal


Hmmmm, tough choice


If he's still available after the draft, and you like the player on tape, then you sign him to an offer after the 1st round and give up a 2018 first round pick. The risk? You go belly-up and lose a high pick. The reward? You add a potential pro-bowl CB plus a rookie CB to a defense that needs talent now.

Personally I don't make that deal, but unless you felt you were going to be worse next year, you don't give up the pick this year.


I wouldn't give up a 1st for Butler AND the contract he will need to be extended.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 4798
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming that TT's aversion to short cornerbacks extends to "ones you spend draft picks to trade for" in addition to "ones you spend draft picks to draft" so whether or not I would do it, TT's not going to trade a premium pick for a CB he wouldn't draft.

Butler is 5096, which is at least an inch below TT's threshold.
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BrettFavre004


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 20578
Location: Galesville, WI
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather have had Gilmore for 14 and maybe take away a 2018 4th round comp pick we may have gotten for Lang than Butler for 11 and a 2017 1st all day long.
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mikemike778


Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 320
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with this sort of deal is that you are giving up (hopefully) 2 major players.

1. Whoever would have got the Butler money whether a FA or a re-signing.
2. The player you get with the 1st round pick on a sensible contract.

You aren't giving up a 1st round pick for Butler. You are maybe giving up Perry (we may not have re-sgned him if we had committed to signing Butler) and a 1st round pick for Butler.

That's why there aren't many player for pick deals. The way to beat the cap is to have good players on rookie contracts. Every pick you give away makes that harder. Its not just about whether the player you are dealing for is better than who you would have drafted. Its about whether the player you are dealing for is better value at his contract than the player you would draft is at his rookie contract.
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