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Ravens' 1996 draft recognized: last great one in NFL history

 
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Ravens' 1996 draft recognized: last great one in NFL history Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/35078/ravens-1996-draft-class-recognized-as-the-last-great-one-in-nfl-history

Quote:

The Baltimore Ravens' first draft is often remembered as one of the best in NFL history. In fact, it's perhaps the last great one.

In stacking up the top draft classes, the ESPN analytics team of Brian Burke and Doug Clawson ranked the Ravens' 1996 one as the 10th best. What really distinguishes this draft class is that it's the most recent one in the top 10.

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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


name them?

because finding two unquestionable first ballot HOFers and arguably the greatest of all time at their positions isn't exactly easy to do.
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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


name them?

because finding two unquestionable first ballot HOFers and arguably the greatest of all time at their positions isn't exactly easy to do.


2001 Chargers had Drew Brees and L.T

2003 Bengals had Chad Johnson, T.J Houshmandzadeh and Justin Smith

2004 Cardinals with Larry Fitzgerald, Darnell Dockett and Karlos dansby

2006 Saints had Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Zach Strief, Jahri Evans, Roman harper and Rob Ninkovich that's 6 NFL starters and at least half of them were pro bowl players.

There's more obviously but I'd say the chargers found 2 first ballot of hall of famers and finding 6 solid NFL starters in one draft is pretty damn good.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


name them?

because finding two unquestionable first ballot HOFers and arguably the greatest of all time at their positions isn't exactly easy to do.


2001 Chargers had Drew Brees and L.T

2003 Bengals had Chad Johnson, T.J Houshmandzadeh and Justin Smith

2004 Cardinals with Larry Fitzgerald, Darnell Dockett and Karlos dansby

2006 Saints had Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Zach Strief, Jahri Evans, Roman harper and Rob Ninkovich that's 6 NFL starters and at least half of them were pro bowl players.

There's more obviously but I'd say the chargers found 2 first ballot of hall of famers and finding 6 solid NFL starters in one draft is pretty damn good.


Now, kindly explain to me how finding 2 first ballot HoFers that aren't arguably the best of all time at their positions outweighs a draft that has 2 first ballot HoFers that ARE BOTH arguably the GOAT at their positions?

Tell me how Ocho, Housh and Justin Smith are better than 2 GOATs?

Tell me how Fitz, an above average DL and an above average ILB are better than 2 GOATs?

I'm not even going to ask you to tell me how finding "6 starters" (despite the fact that one of them is considered one of the most disappointing picks in the last 15 years) is better than finding 2 GOATs.

Not to mention if you're using pro-bowls to account for anything (which is kinda silly in the first place, IMO) you're going to have to count Jermaine Lewis in that 1996 draft for the Ravens too.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


name them?

because finding two unquestionable first ballot HOFers and arguably the greatest of all time at their positions isn't exactly easy to do.


2001 Chargers had Drew Brees and L.T

2003 Bengals had Chad Johnson, T.J Houshmandzadeh and Justin Smith

2004 Cardinals with Larry Fitzgerald, Darnell Dockett and Karlos dansby

2006 Saints had Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Zach Strief, Jahri Evans, Roman harper and Rob Ninkovich that's 6 NFL starters and at least half of them were pro bowl players.

There's more obviously but I'd say the chargers found 2 first ballot of hall of famers and finding 6 solid NFL starters in one draft is pretty damn good.


Now, kindly explain to me how finding 2 first ballot HoFers that aren't arguably the best of all time at their positions outweighs a draft that has 2 first ballot HoFers that ARE BOTH arguably the GOAT at their positions?

Tell me how Ocho, Housh and Justin Smith are better than 2 GOATs?

Tell me how Fitz, an above average DL and an above average ILB are better than 2 GOATs?

I'm not even going to ask you to tell me how finding "6 starters" (despite the fact that one of them is considered one of the most disappointing picks in the last 15 years) is better than finding 2 GOATs.

Not to mention if you're using pro-bowls to account for anything (which is kinda silly in the first place, IMO) you're going to have to count Jermaine Lewis in that 1996 draft for the Ravens too.


Beyond probowls, he was named to two all-pro teams (a much more impressive distinction).

It's not a draft selection, so it's a bit of a gray area whether or not to include it, but need to include the footnote that the Ravens also signed Priest Holmes as an UDFA.
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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


name them?

because finding two unquestionable first ballot HOFers and arguably the greatest of all time at their positions isn't exactly easy to do.


2001 Chargers had Drew Brees and L.T

2003 Bengals had Chad Johnson, T.J Houshmandzadeh and Justin Smith

2004 Cardinals with Larry Fitzgerald, Darnell Dockett and Karlos dansby

2006 Saints had Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Zach Strief, Jahri Evans, Roman harper and Rob Ninkovich that's 6 NFL starters and at least half of them were pro bowl players.

There's more obviously but I'd say the chargers found 2 first ballot of hall of famers and finding 6 solid NFL starters in one draft is pretty damn good.


Now, kindly explain to me how finding 2 first ballot HoFers that aren't arguably the best of all time at their positions outweighs a draft that has 2 first ballot HoFers that ARE BOTH arguably the GOAT at their positions?

Tell me how Ocho, Housh and Justin Smith are better than 2 GOATs?

Tell me how Fitz, an above average DL and an above average ILB are better than 2 GOATs?

I'm not even going to ask you to tell me how finding "6 starters" (despite the fact that one of them is considered one of the most disappointing picks in the last 15 years) is better than finding 2 GOATs.

Not to mention if you're using pro-bowls to account for anything (which is kinda silly in the first place, IMO) you're going to have to count Jermaine Lewis in that 1996 draft for the Ravens too.


I'm pointing out the fact that the ravens draft while great and all, other teams have found franchise changing players in the past 2 decades as well not as great as finding two first ballot HOFs and top 5 at their respective positions. Those drafts are just examples of teams finding franchise defining players, The cardinals 2004 draft built the foundation for their eventual super bowl run, The 2006 saints (despite reggie bush being a disappointment he was still a good RB and Harper being nothing more than solid) is still a great draft that built the foundation for a super bowl winning team.

I'd consider the 2001 chargers draft equal to the ravens 1996 draft despite them not being "the goat" at their position because Ogden and Lewis aren't the GOAT at their positions it's close but not they're not.

But please do continue to arugue how other NFL teams haven't had great drafts the past two decades.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


name them?

because finding two unquestionable first ballot HOFers and arguably the greatest of all time at their positions isn't exactly easy to do.


2001 Chargers had Drew Brees and L.T

2003 Bengals had Chad Johnson, T.J Houshmandzadeh and Justin Smith

2004 Cardinals with Larry Fitzgerald, Darnell Dockett and Karlos dansby

2006 Saints had Reggie Bush, Marques Colston, Zach Strief, Jahri Evans, Roman harper and Rob Ninkovich that's 6 NFL starters and at least half of them were pro bowl players.

There's more obviously but I'd say the chargers found 2 first ballot of hall of famers and finding 6 solid NFL starters in one draft is pretty damn good.


Now, kindly explain to me how finding 2 first ballot HoFers that aren't arguably the best of all time at their positions outweighs a draft that has 2 first ballot HoFers that ARE BOTH arguably the GOAT at their positions?

Tell me how Ocho, Housh and Justin Smith are better than 2 GOATs?

Tell me how Fitz, an above average DL and an above average ILB are better than 2 GOATs?

I'm not even going to ask you to tell me how finding "6 starters" (despite the fact that one of them is considered one of the most disappointing picks in the last 15 years) is better than finding 2 GOATs.

Not to mention if you're using pro-bowls to account for anything (which is kinda silly in the first place, IMO) you're going to have to count Jermaine Lewis in that 1996 draft for the Ravens too.


I'm pointing out the fact that the ravens draft while great and all, other teams have found franchise changing players in the past 2 decades as well not as great as finding two first ballot HOFs and top 5 at their respective positions. Those drafts are just examples of teams finding franchise defining players, The cardinals 2004 draft built the foundation for their eventual super bowl run, The 2006 saints (despite reggie bush being a disappointment he was still a good RB and Harper being nothing more than solid) is still a great draft that built the foundation for a super bowl winning team.

I'd consider the 2001 chargers draft equal to the ravens 1996 draft despite them not being "the goat" at their position because Ogden and Lewis aren't the GOAT at their positions it's close but not they're not.

But please do continue to arugue how other NFL teams haven't had great drafts the past two decades.


I've never once argued the bolded. I've ONLY argued against this very statement that you yourself made:

OleXmad wrote:
There have been/will be better draft classes in the past 2 decades.


I simply asked you to show me those draft classes in the last 2 decades that were "better" (your words, not mine). Now you've backtracked and tried to change the argument to "great drafts" instead of "better drafts" once you realized that you were backed into a corner and forced to defend your statement.

And I realize that there are other great players at ILB and OT respectively. Hence the reason I repeatedly said "arguably the GOAT at their positions". But Tomlinson and Brees aren't as arguable as Ray/Ogden at their respective positions. It's not equal no matter how much you'd like to believe it is.
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DreamKid


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:


I'd consider the 2001 chargers draft equal to the ravens 1996 draft despite them not being "the goat" at their position because Ogden and Lewis aren't the GOAT at their positions it's close but not they're not.

But please do continue to arugue how other NFL teams haven't had great drafts the past two decades.


This is a ludicrous and pointless discussion. There are countless other running backs whom people would prefer to start over LT that have been in the league over the years. You'd be hard pressed to find one person who would choose not to have Ray Lewis in the heart of their defense and franchise. So talented were Ogden and Lewis that the Raven's were able to obtain a ring without a franchise quarterback. Brees and LT both considered franchise players at their positions have one ring between them despite being on deep and talented teams for many years. They'll be remembered for having gaudy numbers but a lack of championships and playoff wins. I'd take the Flacco and Rice combination over them, less expensive and better results.

No one is arguing other teams haven't had good drafts. I get that you are enamored with the draft and talk of it, I see you in all the team forums dropping mocks but if you want to be taken seriously you'll need to refine your approach to these discussions.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention Drew Brees was only a slightly above average QB during his time in SD and didn't become the QB he's known as today until he went to another team.
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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
OleXmad wrote:


I'd consider the 2001 chargers draft equal to the ravens 1996 draft despite them not being "the goat" at their position because Ogden and Lewis aren't the GOAT at their positions it's close but not they're not.

But please do continue to arugue how other NFL teams haven't had great drafts the past two decades.


This is a ludicrous and pointless discussion. There are countless other running backs whom people would prefer to start over LT that have been in the league over the years. You'd be hard pressed to find one person who would choose not to have Ray Lewis in the heart of their defense and franchise. So talented were Ogden and Lewis that the Raven's were able to obtain a ring without a franchise quarterback. Brees and LT both considered franchise players at their positions have one ring between them despite being on deep and talented teams for many years. They'll be remembered for having gaudy numbers but a lack of championships and playoff wins. I'd take the Flacco and Rice combination over them, less expensive and better results.

No one is arguing other teams haven't had good drafts. I get that you are enamored with the draft and talk of it, I see you in all the team forums dropping mocks but if you want to be taken seriously you'll need to refine your approach to these discussions.


Yep I do.
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Current owner of the Portland Horned Owls in the Bizzaro Dynasty League, I'm a Ravens fan and I regret every second of it.
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