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Position of Need Discussion: DB

 
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Position of Need Discussion: DB Reply with quote

The love of CB can differ from person to person. I think it's all about preference.

I think we need to look at scheme fit.

I think we are also still learning what Robinson loves in a CB and what Lebeau wants.
It looks like they aren't really concerned with the 6'2 plus type CB.
They like the 5'11-6'0 190-198 type. Someone not afraid to come up and tackle.

Then we can talk about the Safeties. Even though we signed Cyprien, I don't think we will pass on safteties because of it.
I think Robinson will see the value in this group and need to get one.
How high will that be for a Safety?


Now as the process has gone on I've grown a love for these guys:

CB
Lattimore
TreDavious White
Chidobe Awuzie
Gareon Conley
Desmond King
Adoree Jackson
Ahkello Witherspoon
Cameron Sutton
Corn Elder
Brian Allen
Des Lawrence

S
Budda Baker
Marcus Williams
Jamal Adams
Malik Hooker
Jabrill Peppers
Justin Evans

Now I know he doesn't have much love around here any more, but Peppers...I love him. I just want him on the team. He has so much energy and he reminds me of Ramsey last year. I know people are harping on his lack of INTs same like Ramsey, but he just a playmaker. Is he the most polished Safety? nope but he just loves football.
Electiric returner. I just love Peppers.

I love Baker. I think Baker could be a nickel and flow back and be a safety in our 3 safety look. When Cyprien goes to be the dime LB, Byrad back here and Baker doing a Polmalu impression flowing around. Would Love it!

Corn Elder... I don't care how big he is. Watch his video. Not just highlights but video cut ups. He is fa real as a corner. And he tackles. Not just tackles but lays the wood. I can just see Robinson drooling watching his film.
I'm not going to let the size rule him out. We have guys who were his size and played the edge. Love him.

Those 3 players, Elder, Baker, and Peppers. I wouldn't care. I'd want one or all on the team. lol

Who you got!?
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SerenityNow


Joined: 08 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus Williams is a guy that's really starting to grow on me. We need to add that ballhawk safety to our group and Marcus Williams fits that bill. He flies all over the field, lays the wood, and plays the ball well in the air. He's a tad on the smaller side, but I'm sure he'll get stronger in an NFL strength and conditioning program. I like the idea of adding him in the 3rd round more than drafting a guy like Hooker in the first. Hooker shies away from contact a little too much for my liking whereas Williams seems to embrace it even though he's a smaller safety.
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ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB is still a huge need.

Ryan
Sims
McCourty
McCain
Reed

That's scary. Maybe not quite as bad as last year but still pretty bad. Logan Ryan is a very nice piece but should never be relied on to be a #1 CB. He's the #2 is base and should be the nickel in nickel packages. McCourty shouldn't even be on the team at his salary and how bad of a player he is. Consistently burnt anymore and doesn't have the quickness either. He wasn't Blake/Cox bad but he wasn't much better. I think the only reason he hasn't been cut is because of lack of good CBs on the roster. Sims I really like what he showed last season in his short amount of time. He matched up with some pretty good WRs and held his own. I think his ceiling is at least a #2. McCain is a below average CB and Reed couldn't hardly get on the field last year despite playing for the team with the worst secondary in football. I don't know about anyone else but I'm tired of QBs throwing all over this defense even the bums like Siemian, Barkley, and Bortles.

Some of the CBs I like....

Marshon Lattimore(hate the injury history)
Gareon Conley
Kevin King
Marlon Humphrey
Fabian Moreau(before the injury)
Sidney Jones(before the injury)
Chidobie Azuwie
Ahkello Witherspoon
Tre'Davious White(Kerp going back and forth with him)
Quincy Wilson
Corn Elder
Cordrea Tankersley(keep going back and forth with him)
Desmond King(Hips are a little stiff but I think Robinson and Mularkey will like him)
Adoree Jackson(Very raw but insane potential with amazing returning ability)
Damontae Kazee(Physical and loves to play the run)
Adrian Colbert

As for safety, I still think it's a need. Byard can play all over but Cyprien is strictly a box safety and should be used like one except in nickel packages in which he should be the nickel LB. We play a lot of 3 safety so I expect a safety being a target.

Some of the guys I like....

Jamal Adams
Malik Hooker
Budda Baker
Jabrill Peppers(yes I still like him)
Eddie Jackson
Rayshawn Jenkins
Marcus Williams
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TitanSS


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the need for Peppers. We just signed a safety whos poor in coverage, no need for another one.

Jabril peppers should have played offense. If he would have been used like Percy Harvin he would have flourished, but he is just not a good defensive player. Unless, as several scouting reports have noted, you leave him in the box and the offense doesn't try to block him(lol they mentuon this like it's a positive). He's fast and he can tackle, makes big hits, but he can't shed a block and he cant cover anyone. Someone posted some cut ups of him in October and every one of his tackles were 6, 10, or 12 yards past the LOS, and he's playing linebacker.

3rd round.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a report on Twitter that the Titans like Humphrey over Lattimore. Now, it is Twitter, but I could see this happening, although I don't like Humphrey that much.

Lattimore cannot disengage from a WRs block to save his life. It's one of the few negatives, outside of injuries, that he has. Conley is similar, but he is just very finesse in the way he tries to make tackles.

Humphrey, on the other hand, is incredibly physical. He gets off blocks, flies up to make tackles, and delievers a pretty good pop for a CB. He has, what I mentioned in another thread, what they see as the ideal CB frame at 6'0" 200 lbs. He is very fast, very athletic.

Humphrey was my favorite CB going into 2016, and I made a mock with us drafting him 11th overall, but as the season went underway it became very obvious that he has major issues locating the ball in the air and he needed work on his technique. Doesn't matter of you can stay glued to every WR in the NFL if you let them catch it everytime.

I hope we don't got his route, because putting run defense over pass defense in a CB is a bad idea
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I post that, Matt Miller comes out saying he's heard the Titans are locked on Lattimore at #5. Haha. Sadly, unknown twitter posters have about as much of a chance of being right as he does.
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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
As I post that, Matt Miller comes out saying he's heard the Titans are locked on Lattimore at #5. Haha. Sadly, unknown twitter posters have about as much of a chance of being right as he does.


Matt Miller is an idiot. He's simply just a troll. Robinson probably has no idea yet but Matt Millers source does Laughing

However, I certainly wouldn't complain Laughing
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't hate Humphrey at 18.

Everything you read on him... "scout's" takes, his measurables, everything sounds great. But the few times I've seen him play, I just don't come out impressed... he doesn't strike me as that shut down type corner who I'd consider with a top 10 pick.

Jones and White are my favorite CB prospects in this draft... and before Jones' injury, I was hoping there was a chance one of them (preferably Jones) would be there at 18. With Jones' injury now taking him out of the first round, its going to be harder to expect White (or Lattimore) to make it to 18.

I think Humphrey is straddling the line between that top tier to the next one. Good size, timed speed, physicality, and amazing vs the run. He's that 3rd CB that I would like at 18. (Conley would be the 4th, probably... at this point... for me at least).

I know we shouldn't be in a position to take a red shirt player the value of Jones comes up on my radar in the 2nd half of the 2nd round. There's a lot of guys that could fall in the 2nd that would give us options, but if I'm looking beyond this year... I don't see many players after pick 45/50 that offer more long term potential than Jones.

The 3rd round also offers a lot of potential. Not only are there the guys who have been pushed down due to size or other limitations (Elder, Kazee, Sutton, etc).... but there is certain to be a CB that slides down due to the incredible depth at the position.... maybe someone like Tabor slides because of this 40's... maybe a guy like Jackson, Wilson, King, etc, gets squeezed down. There could be a chance for a steal here... I just wish we would have been able to keep the Rams' early 3rd.

My CB rankings:

Top tier
(Jones - dropped cuz of injury)*
Lattimore
White*
Humphrey

Second tier
Conley*
Tankersley*
(Jones, this is about where I'd rank him now)*
Awuzie
Wilson
Tabor*
Moreau
Jackson
King

Third tier
Kazee*
Lewis
Sutton
H Wilson (sleeper)*
Elder
Witherspoon
Douglas


* guys I like at their relative position
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if we were able to take future injuries off the table, a Lattimore/Ross first round combo is the most appealing. In the third double up on CB or go with any of TE, S, OLB.

I criticized Ross a lot early on, but the idea of that speed in a play-action based offense is very appealing.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as safeties, I think I've moved Hooker to the top of my board. I think Adams is just slightly the better prospect, but Hooker may fit better with our needs. I'm not one that will jump a player over another squarely because of fit/need, but they are really so close that the fit just tips it in his favor.

Either way... similar to how I felt about a month ago... Hooker, Adams, and Foster are the only ones I'd be ecstatic about at 5.

If we trade down, I would love Peppers... but like someone said, he fills essentially the same role Cyprien does.... he's the in-the-box safety that could cover TE's and short zones, but you wouldn't want to put out as a FS. I like Peppers... I just don't like the fit here, not with Cyprien aboard.

I want to like Baker, but his size concerns me a little for a safety. KT's mentioned him as a N/FS... I take that as a Matthieu kinda role... and I can certainly dig that. As I type that, I suddenly have become a Baker fan (now I have to go see some of his film).

I hadn't heard of Obi before the Senior Bowl, and that size/speed/athleticism combo is the stuff of legend. It's concerning that he didn't produce too much at UConn... but to me, he's a poor (but much bigger) man's version of Adams... very versatile. I think he'd complement Byard very nicely, with both being able to switch back and forth on their assignments.

I really want to like Evans (and that non stop motor) in the 2nd... but he reminds me a little too much of Griffin coming out... outstanding range and ball skills, horrible tackler. Williams is also intriguing in the 2nd round, but I have to see a little more of him to know how much I like him.

I haven't really looked at many of the guys after that.

And of course, this is a good spot for my obligatory "McCourty-to-FS" comment. I think this move is long overdue. Extend him (bring down his cap #) and try him out. His game, skills, etc all seem ideal for the switch.

My S rankings:

Top tier
Adams
Hooker

2nd tier
Peppers
Baker
Obi
Evans
Williams

Honestly, I'd be good with any of them...
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching Baker made me a huge fan. I think he has a much better fit in our defense than Hooker, and I like Hooker. Baker is much more physical and has more experience in man coverage.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
Watching Baker made me a huge fan. I think he has a much better fit in our defense than Hooker, and I like Hooker. Baker is much more physical and has more experience in man coverage.


I had shades of Bob Sanders some when watching Baker. I mean he will come up and lay the wood.

But yes, Baker is better in coverage and I think fits us better than Hooker. Hooker doesn't have much appeal outside of the ball hawk (which isn't terrible by any means).

But Baker combines it all.

Baker playing nickel and dropping to safety...I think gives him the edge.
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