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CatalystNX


Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:57 am    Post subject: 2017 Panthers Mock Draft Reply with quote

My first attempt at a Panthers-specific mock post-FA:

1st: O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama: Personally, my preference in the 1st round are Leonard Fournette, Jamal Adams, or Solomon Thomas. That said, it doesn't appear likely we'll be in a position to draft any of them without trading up with a team like the Jaguars. That being the case, O.J. Howard is the best prospect overall that's likely to be on the board. Sure, we could reach for John Ross or fill our need for a young pass rusher with Derek Barnett, but why settle when we can get the unquestioned best TE in this draft class? While it's not the obvious need that SS, DE, or WR is, Greg Olsen isn't getting any younger and in the meantime having both Olsen and Howard on the field will give us a lethal 2-TE set that no other team can match.

2nd: Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina: We did make a few moves at WR in free agency, but it seems clear an upgrade is still needed. Enter Zay Jones, who runs great routes, has great hands, and could be a terror in the slot with Benjamin & Funchess playing outside.

2nd (f/NE): Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma: If we miss out on Leonard Fournette on the 1st round, we'll definitely need to draft a RB with one of our next three picks. Samaje Perine is someone we've shown a lot of interest in and fits our offense perfectly as a tough, between the tackles runner who can handle a workhorse load.

3rd (COMP): Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas: We made some moves at DE, but we're still very old there and could use at least one young pass rusher to add to the rotation alongside our vets. Deatrich Wise could immediately contribute as part of our rotation and hopefully develop into something more down the road.

4th: Josh Jones, SS, N.C. State: The signing of Mike Adams appears to be a stop-gap aimed at grooming a long-term option that isn't Tre Boston. Enter Josh Jones, who would bring an aggressive element to our secondary that we haven't had in a few years. He might not be ready to step in day-one, but he's certainly got the skill set to groom behind a veteran like Mike Adams.

5th: Keionta Davis, DE, UT-Chattanooga: While he is from a smaller school, Davis is one of the most consistent pass rushers in this class and could become a force being mentored by the likes of Julius Peppers.

6th: Sam Rogers, FB, Virginia Tech: It seems clear the Panthers are in the market for a new fullback after releasing Mike Tolbert. Sam Rogers is, IMO, a perfect fit. He's a good blocker, runner, and would also be able to contribute as a receiver the same way Tolbert used to.

7th: Sidney Jones, CB, Washington: It's unclear where Jones might end up being drafted after tearing his achilles at his pro day, but prior to that he was a 1st round caliber prospect. It's likely, however, that the injury will scare teams off from drafting him until very late, if at all. If that scenario does play out, I see no reason why we couldn't take a late-round flyer on him. Sure, he'd spend his rookie season on I.R. and might not be fully healthy until 2019, but what do we have to lose?
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I would not be "upset" if DG picked Howard at 1.8... it would be a reach. Dude has somehow "magically" moved from a mid-20's player to a top 10 talent. Heck, I've seen mocks where he is picked BEFORE us in the top 5.... astounding.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figured I'd shoot a mock out there too.

Picks before us w/ short explanations:

1.01 CLEVELAND BROWNS EDGE MYLES GARRETT
This pick has been the closest thing to a lock in the 1st round since the season ended. Easy selection.

1.02 SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS QB DESHAUN WATSON
National Championship game wrote Watson's ticket. SF needs a QB.

1.03 CHICAGO BEARS QB MITCHELL TRUBISKY
Glennon is not a Franchise QB. My gut says that they got him to allow a young signal caller to gain some experience on the sidelines.... Something that is Trubisky's main knock... experience.

1.04 JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS EDGE SOLOMON THOMAS
Why Solomon Thomas has climbed draft boards so much is something I don't get but... he has. Jags get enamored with the hype. No Fournette due to a loaded backfield already.

1.05 TENNESSEE TITANS LB REUBEN FOSTER
Titans take the 2nd best defender in the draft, by some measures.

1.06 NEW YORK JETS S JAMAL ADAMS
NYJ is stoked to bring in the player at the top of their board. Carolina fans cry.

1.07 SAN DIEGO CHARGERS DL JONATHAN ALLEN
SD fans begin drooling over the idea of Allen lining up with Bosa.

1.08 CAROLINA PANTHERS RB LEONARD FOURNETTE
Fournette is a generational talent. DG, reminding people that he was high on this years draft class at RB, smiles all presser long. When asked, Rivera says that he will be a 1-2 punch with Jstew.

--------------------- Later Rounds ---------------------------

DG is trade happy. Anyone question that still? The following rounds prove that.

1.29 *Trade with GB* EDGE DEREK BARNETT
Panthers Send 2.8 and 2.32 (770pts)
Packers Send 1.29 and 3.29 (768pts)

Barnett has been falling down draft boards all over the place. Some rise and some fall. In this case, a guy who should be a top 10 pick ends up at the end of the 1st. Anyone that questions the talent of Barnett has not done their research. DG pulls the trigger and gets back a 3rd in return... more on that later.

3.23 *Trade with NYG* OT RODERICK JOHNSON
Panthers Send 3.29 (from GB) and 4.8
Giants Send 3.23 and 2018 3rd

DG at it again. This time, he uses the 3rd from GB and our early 4th to move up and get depth at the tackle position. He also gets a 2018 3rd. He doesn't like the OT class but this guy has all the measurable to be a future tackle in the NFL, or just simply provide depth inside... With the "situation" around Oher and Williams' injury history, Rod Johnson is an insurance policy we hope we don't have to use.

3.34 CB JALEN TABOR

Another falling prospect in a VERY deep CB class. DG likes him for the CB2 roll and we are now "stacked" at CB for the foreseeable future.

4.10 *Trade with CHI* TE GERALD EVERETT
Panthers Send 2018 3rd (from NYG) and 5.8
Chicago Sends 4.10

More action from the big guy. This time, he moves up to pick a TE who is, like Leggett, a "new generation" TE. DG overpays, but considers it worth it to land Everett.

6.8 CAROLINA PANTHERS WR ARDARIUS STEWART
WR depth. Guy was a playmaker in the Natl Championship game. Camp body.

7.15 CAROLINA PANTHERS LB BEN BOULWARE
Another fringe player who could make the team or not. Replacement for Klein and the "type" of MLB we like to draft. Very cerebral player.
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CatalystNX


Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see two QB's go in the top-5. It'd all but guarantee we get one of the three players I want most: Fournette, Adams, or Thomas.

That said, I don't see it happening. The Bears just paid Mike Glennon a ton of money; I'm guessing they're out of the round 1 QB game. The 49ers... well, they could pick a QB, but that's such a tough pick to predict as they have so many needs.

I also think the Jets would go Fournette before Adams in that scenario, or take Marshon Lattimore to fill their huge need at CB.

If we could somehow get Derek Barnett in a trade-up I would be ecstatic. That's exactly the kind of trade I can see D.G. making.

Ben Boulware... I'm 50/50 on this guy. He definitely has the mental aspect of the game down, but I question his athleticism in terms of projecting him to the NFL. But in the 7th round, he'd definitely be worth a flyer.

I really don't see D.G. making that trade for Everett.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CatalystNX wrote:
I'd love to see two QB's go in the top-5. It'd all but guarantee we get one of the three players I want most: Fournette, Adams, or Thomas.


It could happen... it's almost tradition. QB hungry teams reach for QBs.

CatalystNX wrote:

That said, I don't see it happening. The Bears just paid Mike Glennon a ton of money; I'm guessing they're out of the round 1 QB game. The 49ers... well, they could pick a QB, but that's such a tough pick to predict as they have so many needs.


Do you reeeeeeeealy see Glennon as a starter in the NFL? Do you think they do?

CatalystNX wrote:

I also think the Jets would go Fournette before Adams in that scenario, or take Marshon Lattimore to fill their huge need at CB.


Lattimore could work here. They are baron at CB now.

CatalystNX wrote:

If we could somehow get Derek Barnett in a trade-up I would be ecstatic. That's exactly the kind of trade I can see D.G. making.


Someone is gonna slip (or maybe multiple someone's). I have seen that someone being Barnett in more mocks than I care to admit. And, honestly, it baffles me each time.

CatalystNX wrote:

Ben Boulware... I'm 50/50 on this guy. He definitely has the mental aspect of the game down, but I question his athleticism in terms of projecting him to the NFL. But in the 7th round, he'd definitely be worth a flyer.


And a flyer is all he will be for whomever drafts him. He just doesn't, as you say, have the athleticism... which is too bad.

CatalystNX wrote:

I really don't see D.G. making that trade for Everett.


Why? Dude has probowler written all over him. Willing blocker, catches well...
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CatalystNX


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
Do you reeeeeeeealy see Glennon as a starter in the NFL? Do you think they do?


They like him enough to give him a $43 million contract. That tells me they think he could possibly be a starting-caliber QB and are willing to take the risk of paying him $15 million for one season to find out. It also tells me they're not sold on any of the top QB's in this year's draft, otherwise, why bother paying Glennon all that money?

I expect they'll explore their options in the 2nd/3rd rounds, but I'd be shocked if they actually went QB in round one after signing Glennon.

Lasus83 wrote:
Someone is gonna slip (or maybe multiple someone's). I have seen that someone being Barnett in more mocks than I care to admit. And, honestly, it baffles me each time.


I agree, it could happen. I've seen reports saying scouts don't feel he's a "special" talent and doesn't have the elite athleticism that Garrett, Allen, and Thomas have, so it wouldn't shock me if he fell. If he does, I would hope we'd use some of those three picks we have in the 2nd/3rd rounds to move up and get him. Barnett could be a steal in that scenario, mentored by Peppers and Johnson.

Lasus83 wrote:
And a flyer is all he will be for whomever drafts him. He just doesn't, as you say, have the athleticism... which is too bad.


I think Boulware could be an outstanding special teams player in the NFL. Not sure he could be much else, but if that's all he turns out to be, he'd still be well worth a 6th or 7th round pick, IMO.

Lasus83 wrote:
Why? Dude has probowler written all over him. Willing blocker, catches well...


I like the player, but I don't see Gettleman as the type of G.M. who would give up higher round picks for lower round picks the way Marty Hurney would at times. If they like him that much, I'm guessing they'd just take him a round earlier as opposed to giving up that much in a mid-round trade.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really am starting to think OJ Howard is going to be our pick at 8. Yeah I guess you can call it a "reach". But 8 is a weird position. It is going to be hard this year to find a trade partner (because of the depth) who wants to shoot up to 8. Unless maybe Fournette is still there. Id love to trade down to 12-15 and grab Howard and another 3rd round pick. That said, here's a mock I'd love...

1st (14) - OJ Howard - Eagles trade up to grab Fournette. We get their first and 3rd (10th pick in the 3rd). Not sure OJ will even be there at 14...

1st (22) - Jabrill Peppers, S/LB

3rd (74) - D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas

3rd - (98 ) - Cameron Sutton, CB

4th (115) - Alex Anzalone, LB

5th (152) - OL, DE, OLB

6th (192) - OL, DE, OLB

7th (233) - OL, DE, OLB
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CatalystNX


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure O.J. Howard would be a reach at #8. He's arguably the best TE prospect to come out in a decade. Granted, the positional value may not be such that picking a TE that high is ideal, but I'd much rather get the best TE to come along in several years than the second or third best DE in this draft.

It's also true that picking Howard would allow us to not be forced into addressing WR early in the draft unless one fell to us that was too good to pass up. We'd be adding a weapon to the passing game, but not in the form of another WR who will split time with the ones already on the roster.

I'd certainly rather have Leonard Fournette as I feel he's a generational talent at RB who would immediately provide a huge spark for our run game. I also would love to have Jamal Adams or Solomon Thomas. However, it's looking less and less likely that any of those players will be there when we pick.

Best case scenario for the Panthers is for both the 49ers and Jets to draft QB's in the 1st round. That would all but ensure at least one of the three I mentioned is available for us.

Alternatively, there's always the option of trading up with the Jaguars. Gettleman and Tom Coughlin obviously have a history and a good relationship, so the notion that we will or already have discussed a trade-up isn't a bad one.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CatalystNX wrote:
I'm not sure O.J. Howard would be a reach at #8. He's arguably the best TE prospect to come out in a decade. Granted, the positional value may not be such that picking a TE that high is ideal, but I'd much rather get the best TE to come along in several years than the second or third best DE in this draft.

It's also true that picking Howard would allow us to not be forced into addressing WR early in the draft unless one fell to us that was too good to pass up. We'd be adding a weapon to the passing game, but not in the form of another WR who will split time with the ones already on the roster.

I'd certainly rather have Leonard Fournette as I feel he's a generational talent at RB who would immediately provide a huge spark for our run game. I also would love to have Jamal Adams or Solomon Thomas. However, it's looking less and less likely that any of those players will be there when we pick.

Best case scenario for the Panthers is for both the 49ers and Jets to draft QB's in the 1st round. That would all but ensure at least one of the three I mentioned is available for us.

Alternatively, there's always the option of trading up with the Jaguars. Gettleman and Tom Coughlin obviously have a history and a good relationship, so the notion that we will or already have discussed a trade-up isn't a bad one.


If you guys think that OJ Howard is the next Tony Gonzalez, then all the Howard love is understandable.

Lets look at some pro comparisons (All subject to debate) to get a real world feel for these players.


NFL.com Comparisons:
Fournette: Bo Jackson
Adams: Darren Woodson
Barnett: Nick Perry (hate this)
Howard: Julius Thomas
Thomas: Justin Smith
Allen: Fletcher Cox
Hooker: Reggie Nelson
Lattimore: Vontae Davis
Corey Davis: Eric Decker

What player do you want to add here?
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Cypher


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
CatalystNX wrote:
I'm not sure O.J. Howard would be a reach at #8. He's arguably the best TE prospect to come out in a decade. Granted, the positional value may not be such that picking a TE that high is ideal, but I'd much rather get the best TE to come along in several years than the second or third best DE in this draft.

It's also true that picking Howard would allow us to not be forced into addressing WR early in the draft unless one fell to us that was too good to pass up. We'd be adding a weapon to the passing game, but not in the form of another WR who will split time with the ones already on the roster.

I'd certainly rather have Leonard Fournette as I feel he's a generational talent at RB who would immediately provide a huge spark for our run game. I also would love to have Jamal Adams or Solomon Thomas. However, it's looking less and less likely that any of those players will be there when we pick.

Best case scenario for the Panthers is for both the 49ers and Jets to draft QB's in the 1st round. That would all but ensure at least one of the three I mentioned is available for us.

Alternatively, there's always the option of trading up with the Jaguars. Gettleman and Tom Coughlin obviously have a history and a good relationship, so the notion that we will or already have discussed a trade-up isn't a bad one.


If you guys think that OJ Howard is the next Tony Gonzalez, then all the Howard love is understandable.

Lets look at some pro comparisons (All subject to debate) to get a real world feel for these players.


NFL.com Comparisons:
Fournette: Bo Jackson
Adams: Darren Woodson
Barnett: Nick Perry (hate this)
Howard: Julius Thomas
Thomas: Justin Smith
Allen: Fletcher Cox
Hooker: Reggie Nelson
Lattimore: Vontae Davis
Corey Davis: Eric Decker

What player do you want to add here?


I actually get that in a vacuum, but I don't recall Perry being as stiff as Barnett when he came out. I'd have to go back, but Perry seemed more agile and had more lateral ability than what Barnett has displayed, as I recall.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cypher wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
CatalystNX wrote:
I'm not sure O.J. Howard would be a reach at #8. He's arguably the best TE prospect to come out in a decade. Granted, the positional value may not be such that picking a TE that high is ideal, but I'd much rather get the best TE to come along in several years than the second or third best DE in this draft.

It's also true that picking Howard would allow us to not be forced into addressing WR early in the draft unless one fell to us that was too good to pass up. We'd be adding a weapon to the passing game, but not in the form of another WR who will split time with the ones already on the roster.

I'd certainly rather have Leonard Fournette as I feel he's a generational talent at RB who would immediately provide a huge spark for our run game. I also would love to have Jamal Adams or Solomon Thomas. However, it's looking less and less likely that any of those players will be there when we pick.

Best case scenario for the Panthers is for both the 49ers and Jets to draft QB's in the 1st round. That would all but ensure at least one of the three I mentioned is available for us.

Alternatively, there's always the option of trading up with the Jaguars. Gettleman and Tom Coughlin obviously have a history and a good relationship, so the notion that we will or already have discussed a trade-up isn't a bad one.


If you guys think that OJ Howard is the next Tony Gonzalez, then all the Howard love is understandable.

Lets look at some pro comparisons (All subject to debate) to get a real world feel for these players.


NFL.com Comparisons:
Fournette: Bo Jackson
Adams: Darren Woodson
Barnett: Nick Perry (hate this)
Howard: Julius Thomas
Thomas: Justin Smith
Allen: Fletcher Cox
Hooker: Reggie Nelson
Lattimore: Vontae Davis
Corey Davis: Eric Decker

What player do you want to add here?


I actually get that in a vacuum, but I don't recall Perry being as stiff as Barnett when he came out. I'd have to go back, but Perry seemed more agile and had more lateral ability than what Barnett has displayed, as I recall.


The above is sorta what I've been fighting against with Barnett. Someone said (Mike Mayock?) that 90% of player evaluation is what they do on the field and 10% is the combine. The player's measurable and such are just to confirm what you already know.

We know that Barnett's college resume shows him on par (don't kill me for the over-usage but I don't know a better thing to say) with Reggie White... and not just rushing the passer but against the run. He has SHOWN a high level of awareness and the ability to get the job done while in pads.

I just don't put much stock in upward movement of players after the season. Ya know... Ross runs an insane 40 and now I hear people saying he should be considered at 1.8?
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Zithers


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching OJ Howard vids doesn't remind me of Julius Thomas at all. He looks to have the explosiveness of Travis Kelce with a bit more trucking power. And he can block.
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burnoutonme


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
Cypher wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
CatalystNX wrote:
I'm not sure O.J. Howard would be a reach at #8. He's arguably the best TE prospect to come out in a decade. Granted, the positional value may not be such that picking a TE that high is ideal, but I'd much rather get the best TE to come along in several years than the second or third best DE in this draft.

It's also true that picking Howard would allow us to not be forced into addressing WR early in the draft unless one fell to us that was too good to pass up. We'd be adding a weapon to the passing game, but not in the form of another WR who will split time with the ones already on the roster.

I'd certainly rather have Leonard Fournette as I feel he's a generational talent at RB who would immediately provide a huge spark for our run game. I also would love to have Jamal Adams or Solomon Thomas. However, it's looking less and less likely that any of those players will be there when we pick.

Best case scenario for the Panthers is for both the 49ers and Jets to draft QB's in the 1st round. That would all but ensure at least one of the three I mentioned is available for us.

Alternatively, there's always the option of trading up with the Jaguars. Gettleman and Tom Coughlin obviously have a history and a good relationship, so the notion that we will or already have discussed a trade-up isn't a bad one.


If you guys think that OJ Howard is the next Tony Gonzalez, then all the Howard love is understandable.

Lets look at some pro comparisons (All subject to debate) to get a real world feel for these players.


NFL.com Comparisons:
Fournette: Bo Jackson
Adams: Darren Woodson
Barnett: Nick Perry (hate this)
Howard: Julius Thomas
Thomas: Justin Smith
Allen: Fletcher Cox
Hooker: Reggie Nelson
Lattimore: Vontae Davis
Corey Davis: Eric Decker

What player do you want to add here?


I actually get that in a vacuum, but I don't recall Perry being as stiff as Barnett when he came out. I'd have to go back, but Perry seemed more agile and had more lateral ability than what Barnett has displayed, as I recall.


The above is sorta what I've been fighting against with Barnett. Someone said (Mike Mayock?) that 90% of player evaluation is what they do on the field and 10% is the combine. The player's measurable and such are just to confirm what you already know.

We know that Barnett's college resume shows him on par (don't kill me for the over-usage but I don't know a better thing to say) with Reggie White... and not just rushing the passer but against the run. He has SHOWN a high level of awareness and the ability to get the job done while in pads.

I just don't put much stock in upward movement of players after the season. Ya know... Ross runs an insane 40 and now I hear people saying he should be considered at 1.8?


Anyone saying that John Ross should be considered at 1.8 is misguided, I agree. He's fast, we knew that before, he confirmed it, good for him. The fast 40 time is actually more of concern to me because he pulled up lame after it. It was a microcosm of everything that is John Ross; fast and injury prone. He was also neutralized by pro caliber CB's when playing against OSU because he (currently) lacks the physicality to keep himself from getting boxed out at the boundaries.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burnoutonme wrote:

Anyone saying that John Ross should be considered at 1.8 is misguided, I agree. He's fast, we knew that before, he confirmed it, good for him. The fast 40 time is actually more of concern to me because he pulled up lame after it. It was a microcosm of everything that is John Ross; fast and injury prone. He was also neutralized by pro caliber CB's when playing against OSU because he (currently) lacks the physicality to keep himself from getting boxed out at the boundaries.


I was watching "A football life" on Steve Smith Sr. the other day. Found myself really missing the days with him on the team. We were not anywhere near the championship caliber team we are today... but that man had a fire.

Where is the Steve Smith fire in this years draft class, I wonder? I know it would be classified as "intangibles", and thus not measurable... but I would sure like to get whomever that guy is on this team.

Someone who is going to draw personal foul penalties occasionally... really get in the heads of the CBs.

I dang sure don't think we have that on the roster. KB showed a flash or two with a stiff arm... but do you guys remember Steve's stiff arm? Guy was brutal!
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