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What should the Pats do with Malcolm Butler?
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Given our cap situation there is no reason not to sign Butler. Nobody is going to be able to offer more than us with that tender unless they clear it with the Pats first.

Can we just lock this guy up and have a solid defense for a few years. And worry about other things.


Yeah, who cares about tomorrow's cap when we can spend now.


I do, if it means we might be able to extend Jimmy G
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Given our cap situation there is no reason not to sign Butler. Nobody is going to be able to offer more than us with that tender unless they clear it with the Pats first.

Can we just lock this guy up and have a solid defense for a few years. And worry about other things.


Yeah, who cares about tomorrow's cap when we can spend now.


I do, if it means we might be able to extend Jimmy G


He was being facetious.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
If the Saints do sign Butler, the Pats don't match, and they surrender pick 11, that effectively means the Saints will have given up Brandin Cooks, pick 11, and a large contract for Malcolm Butler and pick 32.


I can't imagine they'd give up 11 for him. I hope they do, but it seems unlikely


Yeah, I'd put it as highly unlikely. Best case scenario is that the Saints say to the Pats, we want Butler, but only if you work out a trade with us. Then the Pats can decide between Butler playing out 2017 on the tender or taking something like pick 32 and maybe a 3rd in a S&T.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Given our cap situation there is no reason not to sign Butler. Nobody is going to be able to offer more than us with that tender unless they clear it with the Pats first.

Can we just lock this guy up and have a solid defense for a few years. And worry about other things.


Yeah, who cares about tomorrow's cap when we can spend now.


I do, if it means we might be able to extend Jimmy G


He was being facetious.


I know I was just making a point in relation to the cap
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw the headline "Colts ink CB Butler to 1 year deal", darn near had a stroke.

It's Darius Butler.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChazStandard wrote:
Just saw the headline "Colts ink CB Butler to 1 year deal", darn near had a stroke.

It's Darius Butler.


LOL
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trivium2009


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I have a question on this. It's been reported that the Saints are interested in signing Butler but would not be willing to part with their 1st round 11th overall pick. And many sports analyst think the Patriots will need to accept a group of picks to make the trade. Here's the thing. The Patriots don't have to accept anything short of the 11th overall pick for in the rules for tendered players any team who tries to sign said player must forfeit their pick for compensation. In this case the Patriots tendered Butler with a 1st round tender and if I'm BB and the Saints offered anything less than the 11th pick I'd say no deal. Everyone seams to forget that the Patriots are in full control with Butler, so they can be sticklers and with the way they have been treated by the league they should follow the rules by the book on this one to shove it in the league's face. So either Saints can give up their 11th overall pick for Butler or Patriots match or Butler plays one more year in New England either way end result will be in the Patriots favor
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trivium2009 wrote:
Ok so I have a question on this. It's been reported that the Saints are interested in signing Butler but would not be willing to part with their 1st round 11th overall pick. And many sports analyst think the Patriots will need to accept a group of picks to make the trade. Here's the thing. The Patriots don't have to accept anything short of the 11th overall pick for in the rules for tendered players any team who tries to sign said player must forfeit their pick for compensation. In this case the Patriots tendered Butler with a 1st round tender and if I'm BB and the Saints offered anything less than the 11th pick I'd say no deal. Everyone seams to forget that the Patriots are in full control with Butler, so they can be sticklers and with the way they have been treated by the league they should follow the rules by the book on this one to shove it in the league's face. So either Saints can give up their 11th overall pick for Butler or Patriots match or Butler plays one more year in New England either way end result will be in the Patriots favor


You're ignoring the scenario where Butler doesn't sign the tender or signs it in October
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GoldenboyGB


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
trivium2009 wrote:
Ok so I have a question on this. It's been reported that the Saints are interested in signing Butler but would not be willing to part with their 1st round 11th overall pick. And many sports analyst think the Patriots will need to accept a group of picks to make the trade. Here's the thing. The Patriots don't have to accept anything short of the 11th overall pick for in the rules for tendered players any team who tries to sign said player must forfeit their pick for compensation. In this case the Patriots tendered Butler with a 1st round tender and if I'm BB and the Saints offered anything less than the 11th pick I'd say no deal. Everyone seams to forget that the Patriots are in full control with Butler, so they can be sticklers and with the way they have been treated by the league they should follow the rules by the book on this one to shove it in the league's face. So either Saints can give up their 11th overall pick for Butler or Patriots match or Butler plays one more year in New England either way end result will be in the Patriots favor


You're ignoring the scenario where Butler doesn't sign the tender or signs it in October


Just a random question how does that benefit Butler at all if he doesnt sign his tender or sits out until October (which has not been mentioned by his camp at all at this point)?

Obviously there is the injury prevention with him sitting out but that would overall hurt his market. Sitting out unless I am totally missing something isnt really a wise move on his behalf.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoldenboyGB wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
trivium2009 wrote:
Ok so I have a question on this. It's been reported that the Saints are interested in signing Butler but would not be willing to part with their 1st round 11th overall pick. And many sports analyst think the Patriots will need to accept a group of picks to make the trade. Here's the thing. The Patriots don't have to accept anything short of the 11th overall pick for in the rules for tendered players any team who tries to sign said player must forfeit their pick for compensation. In this case the Patriots tendered Butler with a 1st round tender and if I'm BB and the Saints offered anything less than the 11th pick I'd say no deal. Everyone seams to forget that the Patriots are in full control with Butler, so they can be sticklers and with the way they have been treated by the league they should follow the rules by the book on this one to shove it in the league's face. So either Saints can give up their 11th overall pick for Butler or Patriots match or Butler plays one more year in New England either way end result will be in the Patriots favor


You're ignoring the scenario where Butler doesn't sign the tender or signs it in October


Just a random question how does that benefit Butler at all if he doesnt sign his tender or sits out until October (which has not been mentioned by his camp at all at this point)?

Obviously there is the injury prevention with him sitting out but that would overall hurt his market. Sitting out unless I am totally missing something isnt really a wise move on his behalf.


He could think it's a good move if it forces the Pats to trade him. He and his agent seem to be playing this really poorly, so it wouldn't surprise me if he thinks it's beneficial to hold out until the Pats move him
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
GoldenboyGB wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
trivium2009 wrote:
Ok so I have a question on this. It's been reported that the Saints are interested in signing Butler but would not be willing to part with their 1st round 11th overall pick. And many sports analyst think the Patriots will need to accept a group of picks to make the trade. Here's the thing. The Patriots don't have to accept anything short of the 11th overall pick for in the rules for tendered players any team who tries to sign said player must forfeit their pick for compensation. In this case the Patriots tendered Butler with a 1st round tender and if I'm BB and the Saints offered anything less than the 11th pick I'd say no deal. Everyone seams to forget that the Patriots are in full control with Butler, so they can be sticklers and with the way they have been treated by the league they should follow the rules by the book on this one to shove it in the league's face. So either Saints can give up their 11th overall pick for Butler or Patriots match or Butler plays one more year in New England either way end result will be in the Patriots favor


You're ignoring the scenario where Butler doesn't sign the tender or signs it in October


Just a random question how does that benefit Butler at all if he doesnt sign his tender or sits out until October (which has not been mentioned by his camp at all at this point)?

Obviously there is the injury prevention with him sitting out but that would overall hurt his market. Sitting out unless I am totally missing something isnt really a wise move on his behalf.


He could think it's a good move if it forces the Pats to trade him. He and his agent seem to be playing this really poorly, so it wouldn't surprise me if he thinks it's beneficial to hold out until the Pats move him


And if the Pat's never move him he's either

a) forced to sign the tender at some point in the season to have that year count.

b) end up not playing at all and hurting his prospects for a pay day.

He's not a Revis/Sherman/Norman type. He isn't capable of avoiding the scrutiny that comes with this.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:


And if the Pat's never move him he's either

a) forced to sign the tender at some point in the season to have that year count.

b) end up not playing at all and hurting his prospects for a pay day.


Obviously.

Doesn't mean he won't try to do it.
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:


And if the Pat's never move him he's either

a) forced to sign the tender at some point in the season to have that year count.

b) end up not playing at all and hurting his prospects for a pay day.


Obviously.

Doesn't mean he won't try to do it.


I mean he could, but eventually he's going to have to sign it and come play for us so this season counts for him.

He could commit career seppuku and actually sit out all year. But he has to realize under that scenario the Patriots have literally no incentive do him any favors and release him. And a year later it only hurts him.

His best option right now is to play for us and then either go unrestricted to get a payday next year or get a massive 1 year payday via the franchise tag.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Article this morning stated it will coast the Saints the 11th pick
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/new-england-patriots-michael-lombardi-malcolm-butler-will-cost-saints-no-11-pick

I feel NE should hold out for the 11th pick if NO really wants Butler it just makes sense. Pats inked Gilmore and drafted Jones last year whom maybe for all we know can be a #2 CB. If the 11th pick fall our way it makes sense to trade down and secure more picks. If NO does not want to give up the 11th pick then heck we have two shut down corners for a year.

It seems apparent to me the Pats are not wanting to offer Butler what he and his agent are asking. Seeing as a deal is done with Gilmore it seems rather then give Butler a big deal, and Donta' resigned try to sign a two year extension with Jimmy G, make sure he is the highest paid back up in the league.
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patsfan06


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it just comes down to Malcolm Butler is just more valuable to this teams chances of winning the Super Bowl, than a pick between 32 and 256.

That changes if the Saints just tender an offersheet or decide to offer 32+another pick.

Otherwise, I say keep playing chicken.
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