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Top5Fitz


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derwin is so good

Last edited by Top5Fitz on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Techbert


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
A few observations after watching more tape:


1. Malik Hooker is not a terrible run defender. It's not like he's an extra linebacker or anything, but he is pretty aggressive and makes his fair share of tackles around the LOS. He may miss tackles more than you'd like out of a potential top 5 pick, but his effort is not lacking and I expect him to be at least serviceable in that department. The narrative that he is a poor run defender is a little overblown IMO. I think he's worthy of a top 5 pick personally.

2. Tre'Davious White is the king of defending comeback curl routes.

3. Jalen Myrick's combine numbers made me go to his tape. Man I didn't really like what I saw. Excellent recovery speed, but an absolutely terrible and disinterested tackler. Struggled to drive on throws underneath. I wanted to like him, but I did not really see anything special on tape. Looked like a 6th round type prospect, especially in this year's draft class.


I don't agree. He combines bad angles with a lot of missed tackles. I don't see him as a potential top 5 pick. Personally, without Combine numbers, I'm not sure where he fits.


He can tackle. He doesn't like it. The bad angles often look contrived, and I have seen him being a centerfielder when it is clearly a run.

I have not seen him mailing run support in when the game was on the line, but that is what I would worry about.
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Jeezla


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would Derwin James be the #1 safety in this class if he was healthy and eligible?
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezla wrote:
Would Derwin James be the #1 safety in this class if he was healthy and eligible?


Yeah probably. I like Adams, but he isn't a freak of nature like Derwin James is physically. I like Hooker, but he is nowhere near the run defender that Derwin James is. James is going to be a superstar from day 1 and have a Sean Taylor-like impact in someone's secondary. He's ridiculous.
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brownie man


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezla wrote:
Would Derwin James be the #1 safety in this class if he was healthy and eligible?



Lol the scary thing is yeah he would be

James is dumb crazy good

I've never given a player the Sean Taylor comp, but Derwin made me do it. That guy is the perfect safety prospect. He's going to kill it this year if he can stay healthy. Derwin James is basically the Myles Garrett of the safety position

Man I really like T McFadden too the corner. His length is crazy. He's on the Marshon Lattimore level to me.

It's early but I think 2018 will have a higher quality of top 15 players but it won't have the depth this one does.
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Deshone Kizer, Malik Hooker, Carlos Watkins, Adoree Jackson, Budda Baker, TJ Watt, Montravius Adams, Ryan Switzer, Kendall Beckwith, Davis Webb, Des Lawrence, Shelton Gibson, Jamaal Williams, Bucky Hodges
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the Raider guys who analyses players on twitter has been cutting up some plays of Obi Melifonwu. He looks athletic and very smooth to me, would he be a solid 1st rounder at FS?
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
One of the Raider guys who analyses players on twitter has been cutting up some plays of Obi Melifonwu. He looks athletic and very smooth to me, would he be a solid 1st rounder at FS?

I've bee mocking him to the Raiders over the last couple weeks. I project him more as a strong safety.

Josh Jones hype made the rounds today on Twitter (coinciding with a couple of his videos being uploaded on DB). What are some thoughts on him? Can't say liked what I saw, particularly against Vanderbilt.
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Geek


Joined: 06 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownie man wrote:
Jeezla wrote:
Would Derwin James be the #1 safety in this class if he was healthy and eligible?



Lol the scary thing is yeah he would be

James is dumb crazy good

I've never given a player the Sean Taylor comp, but Derwin made me do it. That guy is the perfect safety prospect. He's going to kill it this year if he can stay healthy. Derwin James is basically the Myles Garrett of the safety position

Man I really like T McFadden too the corner. His length is crazy. He's on the Marshon Lattimore level to me.

It's early but I think 2018 will have a higher quality of top 15 players but it won't have the depth this one does.


What about Marcus Williams? How would you rank him against James and the other safeties in this class?
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
A few observations after watching more tape:


1. Malik Hooker is not a terrible run defender. It's not like he's an extra linebacker or anything, but he is pretty aggressive and makes his fair share of tackles around the LOS. He may miss tackles more than you'd like out of a potential top 5 pick, but his effort is not lacking and I expect him to be at least serviceable in that department. The narrative that he is a poor run defender is a little overblown IMO. I think he's worthy of a top 5 pick personally.

2. Tre'Davious White is the king of defending comeback curl routes.

3. Jalen Myrick's combine numbers made me go to his tape. Man I didn't really like what I saw. Excellent recovery speed, but an absolutely terrible and disinterested tackler. Struggled to drive on throws underneath. I wanted to like him, but I did not really see anything special on tape. Looked like a 6th round type prospect, especially in this year's draft class.


I don't agree. He combines bad angles with a lot of missed tackles. I don't see him as a potential top 5 pick. Personally, without Combine numbers, I'm not sure where he fits.



-Name a safety that made every single tackle one on one? I'll wait...

-People love to reference the Wisconsin game to try to talk about his poor tackling/angles, what happened in the second half? I'll wait...

-Without combine numbers? Laughing Laughing , what does your eyes tell you, he looks like a 4.45 - 4.47 guy with at least a 38-40 vert, plus his tracking is as elite as there has been in the last 8-10 years. What about his WR hands and playmaking abilities with the ball in his hands?

-Where does he fit? hmmm, lets see. Any team that needs a ballhawk over the top

-Pfft... not a top 5 pick... Laughing , you crazy.... you could make the argument that he is the best pure defender in this draft.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
-Name a safety that made every single tackle one on one? I'll wait...


Strawman argument.

He's a bad tackler for a safety.

Quote:
-People love to reference the Wisconsin game to try to talk about his poor tackling/angles, what happened in the second half? I'll wait...


No idea. I didn't watch that game while evaluating him. Still came away thinking he took poor angles and tackled poorly.

Quote:
-Without combine numbers? Laughing Laughing , what does your eyes tell you, he looks like a 4.45 - 4.47 guy with at least a 38-40 vert, plus his tracking is as elite as there has been in the last 8-10 years. What about his WR hands and playmaking abilities with the ball in his hands?


He doesn't look like that to me. That's the problem. Without Combine numbers, I'm in a tough situation. The rumors are that Hooker wouldn't have tested that well. Which makes you wonder how he'll do when he's facing NFL athletes and QBs. For a guy whose potential is totally based on his range and cover skills, that's worrisome.

Quote:

-Where does he fit? hmmm, lets see. Any team that needs a ballhawk over the top


That's true, but those teams typically also need to rely on that guy to take quality angles and tackle. That was the problem for Reggie Nelson and O.J. Atogwe.

When we're talking a top 5 pick, it's a big deal. He needs to be more than a playmaker who only amounts to an average/above average all around player.

I want Ed Reed, Earl Thomas, etc.

Quote:
-Pfft... not a top 5 pick... Laughing , you crazy.... you could make the argument that he is the best pure defender in this draft.


Yes. Not a top 5 pick for me. You can make the argument that he's the best pure defender in the draft; I won't be. I prefer Jamal Adams over him at safety. I'm not taking him in the top 5.

He's a playmaker, but can he be a guy who is relied upon to do the little things right? I don't know. That's why I can't take him top 5. The potential is certainly there, but there's too much risk and uncertainty for me.

It's easier for me to make that sort of jump if he shows himself to be a stellar athlete at the Combine or a Pro Day, but with his injury, that's not possible.

To be a great player in the NFL, you have to be more than just a guy who can make splash plays. Janoris Jenkins took years to figure that out. Reggie Nelson never did. If I'm taking a guy in the top 5 picks, I want one of two things (preferably both):
1. An easy evaluation; and/or
2. An elite athlete
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
MSURacerDT55 wrote:
-Name a safety that made every single tackle one on one? I'll wait...


Strawman argument.

He's a bad tackler for a safety.

Quote:
-People love to reference the Wisconsin game to try to talk about his poor tackling/angles, what happened in the second half? I'll wait...


No idea. I didn't watch that game while evaluating him. Still came away thinking he took poor angles and tackled poorly.

Quote:
-Without combine numbers? Laughing Laughing , what does your eyes tell you, he looks like a 4.45 - 4.47 guy with at least a 38-40 vert, plus his tracking is as elite as there has been in the last 8-10 years. What about his WR hands and playmaking abilities with the ball in his hands?


He doesn't look like that to me. That's the problem. Without Combine numbers, I'm in a tough situation. The rumors are that Hooker wouldn't have tested that well. Which makes you wonder how he'll do when he's facing NFL athletes and QBs. For a guy whose potential is totally based on his range and cover skills, that's worrisome.

Quote:

-Where does he fit? hmmm, lets see. Any team that needs a ballhawk over the top


That's true, but those teams typically also need to rely on that guy to take quality angles and tackle. That was the problem for Reggie Nelson and O.J. Atogwe.

When we're talking a top 5 pick, it's a big deal. He needs to be more than a playmaker who only amounts to an average/above average all around player.

I want Ed Reed, Earl Thomas, etc.

Quote:
-Pfft... not a top 5 pick... Laughing , you crazy.... you could make the argument that he is the best pure defender in this draft.


Yes. Not a top 5 pick for me. You can make the argument that he's the best pure defender in the draft; I won't be. I prefer Jamal Adams over him at safety. I'm not taking him in the top 5.

He's a playmaker, but can he be a guy who is relied upon to do the little things right? I don't know. That's why I can't take him top 5. The potential is certainly there, but there's too much risk and uncertainty for me.

It's easier for me to make that sort of jump if he shows himself to be a stellar athlete at the Combine or a Pro Day, but with his injury, that's not possible.

To be a great player in the NFL, you have to be more than just a guy who can make splash plays. Janoris Jenkins took years to figure that out. Reggie Nelson never did. If I'm taking a guy in the top 5 picks, I want one of two things (preferably both):
1. An easy evaluation; and/or
2. An elite athlete



- Since you have such an issue with his "tackling" (even though he won't be a box safety) could it be safe to say you can attribute part of his lack of to his inexperience as a Defender?

- The reason I also project Hooker better than Adams is because Adams had played three years of Safety, Hooker? one. And is already on an even plane on with Adams just imagine if Hooker played 3 years how good would he have been, but he wasn't going to play over Von Bell who was a 5* recruit.

- And I find it funny how people who don't watch tOSU just all of the sudden have a book on tOSU prospects...Laughing . I've seen every snap of this guys career, he's missed some tackles but it is nowhere near as bad as you or other people make it out to be.

- You don't see the projections I had for Hooker, I would love to see what your projections of his numbers would be.

- I understand you are entitled to your opinion, but I feel you are being totally unfair about him as a prospect, you said you want Ed Reed? His DB coach at Miami (Greg Schiano) said that's who he plays like... Laughing , but you go out of your way to call him O.J Atogwe and Reggie Nelson.

- Weren't you one of those guys last year saying Deforrest Buckner was better than Joey Bosa?

- Time will tell
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brownie man


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geek wrote:
brownie man wrote:
Jeezla wrote:
Would Derwin James be the #1 safety in this class if he was healthy and eligible?



Lol the scary thing is yeah he would be

James is dumb crazy good

I've never given a player the Sean Taylor comp, but Derwin made me do it. That guy is the perfect safety prospect. He's going to kill it this year if he can stay healthy. Derwin James is basically the Myles Garrett of the safety position

Man I really like T McFadden too the corner. His length is crazy. He's on the Marshon Lattimore level to me.

It's early but I think 2018 will have a higher quality of top 15 players but it won't have the depth this one does.


What about Marcus Williams? How would you rank him against James and the other safeties in this class?


Marcus Williams has great range, but I am somewhat worried me might be the next Rahim Moore. Probably will be better, but another converted receiver that I'm not sure can be an impact complete defender. I'd take him in the third no problem because his range is that good I think he could be a really good starter he'll make interceptions as soon as his gets to the league, but I think being able to sit behind a starter could help him develop a lot.


And btw Jrry has proved he is totally uninformed on Malik Hooker as a prospect I would would stop debating with him. "Bad Tackler" lmao dude just doesn't know anything or has probably ever even seen Malik's Hooker play once.
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My Favorite Guys This draft
Deshone Kizer, Malik Hooker, Carlos Watkins, Adoree Jackson, Budda Baker, TJ Watt, Montravius Adams, Ryan Switzer, Kendall Beckwith, Davis Webb, Des Lawrence, Shelton Gibson, Jamaal Williams, Bucky Hodges
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me more about Chidobe Awuzie. Saw DJ had him as a 1st rounder on his latest mock but haven't heard much about him. From the clips I've watched, he seems very athletic, quick change of direction skills, but possibly a bit raw overall?
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Rich7sena


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Tell me more about Chidobe Awuzie. Saw DJ had him as a 1st rounder on his latest mock but haven't heard much about him. From the clips I've watched, he seems very athletic, quick change of direction skills, but possibly a bit raw overall?

I like him more as a day one starter/slot than Gareon Conley. I think he projects as a top level slot corner in the NFL. He's got great change of direction, is one of the better tacklers in the draft at the position, but might be a bit short armed to play on the perimeter.

I have him going at the end or middle of round 2.

Any thoughts on Josh Jones?
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Tell me more about Chidobe Awuzie. Saw DJ had him as a 1st rounder on his latest mock but haven't heard much about him. From the clips I've watched, he seems very athletic, quick change of direction skills, but possibly a bit raw overall?


Fan, I actually hate that he is starting to be seen as he should be. He would have been an outstanding steal.
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