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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 81110
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
Call me not worried.

But I expect a winning season next yr.
However we do it.
I think so also. Our S position is improved. At worst our DL is a push vs the last 2 years and our redzone targets are better.

Free agency isn't over, there are still some good DL and LBs available to make our front 7 better and we have the draft.
Have you even watched McClain or McGee play?

Go watch their highlights (I know it's just highlights but it's all I know how to get), rewatch the games we played vs the Cowboys last year. They're run stuffers and they're relentless.

Terrell McClain, Run Stuffer:

https://youtu.be/oz3loZzy5MY

What Stacy McGee brings to the Redskins:

https://youtu.be/ILFTwsioreM
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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 5901
Location: WASHINGTON DC
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
Call me not worried.

But I expect a winning season next yr.
However we do it.
I think so also. Our S position is improved. At worst our DL is a push vs the last 2 years and our redzone targets are better.

Free agency isn't over, there are still some good DL and LBs available to make our front 7 better and we have the draft.
Have you even watched McClain or McGee play?

Go watch their highlights (I know it's just highlights but it's all I know how to get), rewatch the games we played vs the Cowboys last year. They're run stuffers and they're relentless.

Terrell McClain, Run Stuffer:

https://youtu.be/oz3loZzy5MY

What Stacy McGee brings to the Redskins:

https://youtu.be/ILFTwsioreM


Dude seems like your the only one soooo glad to have these guys!!! Not many others are buying your cool aid. Stop tryna force people to buy this BS!!!!!
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 81110
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
Call me not worried.

But I expect a winning season next yr.
However we do it.
I think so also. Our S position is improved. At worst our DL is a push vs the last 2 years and our redzone targets are better.

Free agency isn't over, there are still some good DL and LBs available to make our front 7 better and we have the draft.
Have you even watched McClain or McGee play?

Go watch their highlights (I know it's just highlights but it's all I know how to get), rewatch the games we played vs the Cowboys last year. They're run stuffers and they're relentless.

Terrell McClain, Run Stuffer:

https://youtu.be/oz3loZzy5MY

What Stacy McGee brings to the Redskins:

https://youtu.be/ILFTwsioreM


Dude seems like your the only one soooo glad to have these guys!!! Not many others are buying your cool aid. Stop tryna force people to buy this BS!!!!!
All I ask is that people have an open mind. It's not my kool aid, watch the highlights. As far as effort goes, they're upgrades over Baker and RJF. They're also younger and their cap hits are less in 2017 that what Baker & RJF's would have been.

They speak for themselves as do the games when we faced the Cowboys last year and we had trouble blocking McClain.
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lavar703


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 7243
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the thing, I don't see how the front office can sell this as the team improving? Baker is better than both guys that we paid not to mention there was real opportunities to upgrade this defense which Bruce completely disregarded to overpay two guys that basically made everyone around the league scratch their heads.

All this team needed to do was build the defense, they already had a top 5, super bowl caliber offense but instead he created holes all over the roster. We went into this off-season with loads of cap space, a couple guys we needed to re-sign and clear upgrades that we could bring in on defense. This whole off-season has been one major step back.

Overpaid Vernon Davis, let two pro bowl caliber receivers walk and then signed two bottom tier DL to pretty good contracts. All of this has proven where our future is headed under Bruce. He's going to trade back in the draft, pick some guy a couple rounds too early and we'll be lucky to win 6-games. There is literally no hope with he and Dan in charge.
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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 5901
Location: WASHINGTON DC
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
Call me not worried.

But I expect a winning season next yr.
However we do it.
I think so also. Our S position is improved. At worst our DL is a push vs the last 2 years and our redzone targets are better.

Free agency isn't over, there are still some good DL and LBs available to make our front 7 better and we have the draft.
Have you even watched McClain or McGee play?

Go watch their highlights (I know it's just highlights but it's all I know how to get), rewatch the games we played vs the Cowboys last year. They're run stuffers and they're relentless.

Terrell McClain, Run Stuffer:

https://youtu.be/oz3loZzy5MY

What Stacy McGee brings to the Redskins:

https://youtu.be/ILFTwsioreM


Dude seems like your the only one soooo glad to have these guys!!! Not many others are buying your cool aid. Stop tryna force people to buy this BS!!!!!
All I ask is that people have an open mind. It's not my kool aid, watch the highlights. As far as effort goes, they're upgrades over Baker and RJF. They're also younger and their cap hits are less in 2017 that what Baker & RJF's would have been.

They speak for themselves as do the games when we faced the Cowboys last year and we had trouble blocking McClain.


When the Redskins can't stop teams on 3rd downs and just give away rushing yards please remember this. No coach or play calling blaming!
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 81110
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Here's the thing, I don't see how the front office can sell this as the team improving? Baker is better than both guys that we paid not to mention there was real opportunities to upgrade this defense which Bruce completely disregarded to overpay two guys that basically made everyone around the league scratch their heads.
Baker is better currently but Baker is going to be 30, these two are still in their primes. Baker's cap his is almost twice as much in 2017. Basically we added these two with the $ it would have cost to keep Baker for this season.

Quote:
All this team needed to do was build the defense, they already had a top 5, super bowl caliber offense but instead he created holes all over the roster. We went into this off-season with loads of cap space, a couple guys we needed to re-sign and clear upgrades that we could bring in on defense. This whole off-season has been one major step back.
Well for one, we haven't had our draft yet. Two, we upgraded our FS position and I believe our run defense improved with the addition of McClain and McGee. They're not flashy guys but they have been good run defenders.

Quote:
Overpaid Vernon Davis, let two pro bowl caliber receivers walk and then signed two bottom tier DL to pretty good contracts. All of this has proven where our future is headed under Bruce. He's going to trade back in the draft, pick some guy a couple rounds too early and we'll be lucky to win 6-games. There is literally no hope with he and Dan in charge.
We let 4 guys go who would have cost us $28.9 million to retain. They were all going to be 30 or are already over 30.

We re-signed Davis ($3.3 cap hit in 2017) & Hood ($1.3 2017 cap hit)signed two DL (younger than and cheaper than Baker and RJF, they cost $6.9 2017 cap hit), Swearinger ($3.5 cap hit), Pryor ($6 cap hit) cheaper than Garçon & Djax 2017 cap hits. $21 million in cap hits for the guys we signed for 2017.

Everyone we signed except for Davis and Hood are younger than the guys we are getting rid of and they are all cheaper.

We are continuing the theme of building through the draft by not overpaying for other teams free agents. The players we have added in the last 3 drafts and offseasons will continue to have bigger roles as they continue to develop.
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"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG


Last edited by turtle28 on Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 81110
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:

When the Redskins can't stop teams on 3rd downs and just give away rushing yards please remember this. No coach or play calling blaming!
I'll never shy away from being called out. It's too bad you missed most of last season because I would have given you props for being right about the Giants D and about how bad our DL was going to be.

As far as our run D goes, if these two remain sound in their run responsibilities- which I believe they will more than Baker did - and with better tackling from our safeties we will be better with our run D. Swearinger and Cravens are better tacklers than Blackmon, Bruton, Whitner and Nacho.

This will also help on 3rd downs. Numerous times last year we could have tackled players short of the 1st down markers but there was a blown coverage or no safety was there to come up and make a tackle. I think Swearinger and Cravens will be better than the guys we had last year at that.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19352
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Here's the thing, I don't see how the front office can sell this as the team improving? Baker is better than both guys that we paid not to mention there was real opportunities to upgrade this defense which Bruce completely disregarded to overpay two guys that basically made everyone around the league scratch their heads.
Baker is better currently but Baker is going to be 30, these two are still in their primes. Baker's cap his is almost twice as much in 2017. Basically we added these two with the $ it would have cost to keep Baker for this season.

Quote:
All this team needed to do was build the defense, they already had a top 5, super bowl caliber offense but instead he created holes all over the roster. We went into this off-season with loads of cap space, a couple guys we needed to re-sign and clear upgrades that we could bring in on defense. This whole off-season has been one major step back.
Well for one, we haven't had our draft yet. Two, we upgraded our FS position and I believe our run defense improved with the addition of McClain and McGee. They're not flashy guys but they have been good run defenders.

Quote:
Overpaid Vernon Davis, let two pro bowl caliber receivers walk and then signed two bottom tier DL to pretty good contracts. All of this has proven where our future is headed under Bruce. He's going to trade back in the draft, pick some guy a couple rounds too early and we'll be lucky to win 6-games. There is literally no hope with he and Dan in charge.
We let 4 guys go who would have cost us $28.9 million to retain. They were all going to be 30 or are already over 30.

We re-signed Davis ($3.3 cap hit in 2017) & Hood ($1.3 2017 cap hit)signed two DL (younger than and cheaper than Baker and RJF, they cost $6.9 2017 cap hit), Swearinger ($3.5 cap hit), Pryor ($6 cap hit) cheaper than Garçon & Djax 2017 cap hits. $21 million in cap hits for the guys we signed for 2017.

Everyone we signed except for Davis and Hood are younger than the guys we are getting rid of and they are all cheaper.

We are continuing the theme of building through the draft by not overpaying for other teams free agents. The players we have added in the last 3 drafts and offseasons will continue to have bigger roles as they continue to develop.
So many things are silly about your post:

- Yes Baker is 29 years old, but McClain is 28 and McGee is 27. How is that a big enough difference to ignore that Baker is the superior player?

- You seem hung up on Baker's $6 mil cap hit for this season, like that somehow makes it a better contract than what we gave the two we signed. The contract Baker signed is a much better deal for the Bucs than the two deals we signed:

Chris Baker

http://overthecap.com/player/chris-baker/2134

3-year deal, $15.75 mil total money, $6 mil guaranteed, $0 signing bonus

Year 1 - $3 mil base salary (guaranteed), $3 mil roster bonus (guaranteed) - $6 mil cap total
Year 2 - $4.875 mil base salary, $0 bonus - $4.875 cap total
Year 3 - $4.875 mil base salary, $0 bonus - $4.875 cap total

Stacey McGee

http://overthecap.com/player/stacy-mcgee/2352

5-year deal, $25.0 mil total money, $6.25 mil guaranteed, includes $4.0 mil signing bonus

Year 1 - $2.25 mil base salary (guaranteed), $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $3.190 mil cap total
Year 2 - $3.75 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $4.80 cap total
Year 3 - $3.75 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $4.80 cap total
Year 4 - $4.75 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $5.80 cap total
Year 5 - $5.25 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $6.30 cap total

Terrell McClain

http://overthecap.com/player/terrell-mcclain/1687/

4-year deal, $21.0 mil total money, $7.25 mil guaranteed, includes $5.0 mil signing bonus

Year 1 - $1.25 mil base salary (guaranteed), $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $3.735 mil cap total
Year 2 - $3.25 mil base salary, $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $4.75 cap total
Year 3 - $4.00 mil base salary, $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $5.75 cap total
Year 4 - $5.00 mil base salary, $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $6.75 cap total

- The combined guaranteed money of these two players is $13.5 mil compared to Chris Baker's $6 mil guaranteed.

- In 2018, Chris Baker will count $4.875 mil against the Bucs cap, while these two players will count $9.55 mil against the Redskins cap in 2018.

- All of Baker's guaranteed money is in Year 1, the Bucs can cut him after this year with absolutely no repercussions. If the Redskins cut Stacey McGee and Terrell McClain in 2018 the Redskins would have a combined $6.95 mil in dead cap space.

- Chris Baker was a proven starter in our defense. We have no idea how these guys will project to our defense. So we should be signing them at a discount, or lower money, than the guy who was a proven starter. We didn't, we seriously overpaid for both of these guys.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Here's the thing, I don't see how the front office can sell this as the team improving? Baker is better than both guys that we paid not to mention there was real opportunities to upgrade this defense which Bruce completely disregarded to overpay two guys that basically made everyone around the league scratch their heads.
Baker is better currently but Baker is going to be 30, these two are still in their primes. Baker's cap his is almost twice as much in 2017. Basically we added these two with the $ it would have cost to keep Baker for this season.

Quote:
All this team needed to do was build the defense, they already had a top 5, super bowl caliber offense but instead he created holes all over the roster. We went into this off-season with loads of cap space, a couple guys we needed to re-sign and clear upgrades that we could bring in on defense. This whole off-season has been one major step back.
Well for one, we haven't had our draft yet. Two, we upgraded our FS position and I believe our run defense improved with the addition of McClain and McGee. They're not flashy guys but they have been good run defenders.

Quote:
Overpaid Vernon Davis, let two pro bowl caliber receivers walk and then signed two bottom tier DL to pretty good contracts. All of this has proven where our future is headed under Bruce. He's going to trade back in the draft, pick some guy a couple rounds too early and we'll be lucky to win 6-games. There is literally no hope with he and Dan in charge.
We let 4 guys go who would have cost us $28.9 million to retain. They were all going to be 30 or are already over 30.

We re-signed Davis ($3.3 cap hit in 2017) & Hood ($1.3 2017 cap hit)signed two DL (younger than and cheaper than Baker and RJF, they cost $6.9 2017 cap hit), Swearinger ($3.5 cap hit), Pryor ($6 cap hit) cheaper than Garçon & Djax 2017 cap hits. $21 million in cap hits for the guys we signed for 2017.

Everyone we signed except for Davis and Hood are younger than the guys we are getting rid of and they are all cheaper.

We are continuing the theme of building through the draft by not overpaying for other teams free agents. The players we have added in the last 3 drafts and offseasons will continue to have bigger roles as they continue to develop.
So many things are silly about your post:

- Yes Baker is 29 years old, but McClain is 28 and McGee is 27. How is that a big enough difference to ignore that Baker is the superior player?

- You seem hung up on Baker's $6 mil cap hit for this season, like that somehow makes it a better contract than what we gave the two we signed. The contract Baker signed is a much better deal for the Bucs than the two deals we signed:

Chris Baker

http://overthecap.com/player/chris-baker/2134

3-year deal, $15.75 mil total money, $6 mil guaranteed, $0 signing bonus

Year 1 - $3 mil base salary (guaranteed), $3 mil roster bonus (guaranteed) - $6 mil cap total
Year 2 - $4.875 mil base salary, $0 bonus - $4.875 cap total
Year 3 - $4.875 mil base salary, $0 bonus - $4.875 cap total

Stacey McGee

http://overthecap.com/player/stacy-mcgee/2352

5-year deal, $25.0 mil total money, $6.25 mil guaranteed, includes $4.0 mil signing bonus

Year 1 - $2.25 mil base salary (guaranteed), $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $3.190 mil cap total
Year 2 - $3.75 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $4.80 cap total
Year 3 - $3.75 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $4.80 cap total
Year 4 - $4.75 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $5.80 cap total
Year 5 - $5.25 mil base salary, $800k prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $6.30 cap total

Terrell McClain

http://overthecap.com/player/terrell-mcclain/1687/

4-year deal, $21.0 mil total money, $7.25 mil guaranteed, includes $5.0 mil signing bonus

Year 1 - $1.25 mil base salary (guaranteed), $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $3.735 mil cap total
Year 2 - $3.25 mil base salary, $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $4.75 cap total
Year 3 - $4.00 mil base salary, $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $5.75 cap total
Year 4 - $5.00 mil base salary, $1.25 mil prorated bonus, $250k roster bonus - $6.75 cap total

- The combined guaranteed money of these two players is $13.5 mil compared to Chris Baker's $6 mil guaranteed.

- In 2018, Chris Baker will count $4.875 mil against the Bucs cap, while these two players will count $9.55 mil against the Redskins cap in 2018.

- All of Baker's guaranteed money is in Year 1, the Bucs can cut him after this year with absolutely no repercussions. If the Redskins cut Stacey McGee and Terrell McClain in 2018 the Redskins would have a combined $6.95 mil in dead cap space.

- Chris Baker was a proven starter in our defense. We have no idea how these guys will project to our defense. So we should be signing them at a discount, or lower money, than the guy who was a proven starter. We didn't, we seriously overpaid for both of these guys.
Yes, I am hung up on this years cap number. You are right.

I don't think we overpaid though. If we had given them Hatcher, Bowen or Cofield type contracts I would have thought we overpaid but I don't think we overpaid.

People have talked for 2 years how Baker is just the best player on a bad defensive line, how he takes plays off and doesn't always hustle. I would rather Baker still be here with McClain, McGee and Hood rotating along side him but I think his loss is being overrated because he was a funny guy and a fan favorite.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19352
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Yes, I am hung up on this years cap number. You are right.

I don't think we overpaid though. If we had given them Hatcher, Bowen or Cofield type contracts I would have thought we overpaid but I don't think we overpaid.

People have talked for 2 years how Baker is just the best player on a bad defensive line, how he takes plays off and doesn't always hustle. I would rather Baker still be here with McClain, McGee and Hood rotating along side him but I think his loss is being overrated because he was a funny guy and a fan favorite.
At that price wouldn't it have been better to bring Baker back and sign just one of McClain or McGee?
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lavar703


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baker is better than the two guys we signed and overpaid.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes, I am hung up on this years cap number. You are right.

I don't think we overpaid though. If we had given them Hatcher, Bowen or Cofield type contracts I would have thought we overpaid but I don't think we overpaid.

People have talked for 2 years how Baker is just the best player on a bad defensive line, how he takes plays off and doesn't always hustle. I would rather Baker still be here with McClain, McGee and Hood rotating along side him but I think his loss is being overrated because he was a funny guy and a fan favorite.
At that price wouldn't it have been better to bring Baker back and sign just one of McClain or McGee?
I think they're projecting that McClain and McGee will continue to improve the next few years while Baker won't. I guess we'll see. I don't think anyone can answer that for sure right now.
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Dashing


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 8922
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
Call me not worried.

But I expect a winning season next yr.
However we do it.
I think so also. Our S position is improved. At worst our DL is a push vs the last 2 years and our redzone targets are better.

Free agency isn't over, there are still some good DL and LBs available to make our front 7 better and we have the draft.
Have you even watched McClain or McGee play?

Go watch their highlights (I know it's just highlights but it's all I know how to get), rewatch the games we played vs the Cowboys last year. They're run stuffers and they're relentless.

Terrell McClain, Run Stuffer:

https://youtu.be/oz3loZzy5MY

What Stacy McGee brings to the Redskins:

https://youtu.be/ILFTwsioreM


Dude seems like your the only one soooo glad to have these guys!!! Not many others are buying your cool aid. Stop tryna force people to buy this BS!!!!!



I agree with you . I think a lot of you guys gotta relax a bit and give these guys a chance they are way superior to a David Briton or a RJF .

They just aren't flashy guys .
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Dashing


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 8922
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are overrating baker way to much.
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Dashing


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 8922
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Baker is better than the two guys we signed and overpaid.


He was as inconsistent and honestly wasn't that impressive .

His best play was the big hit on Eli and I honestly think Baker isn't an impact player .
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