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Looking At Our Team Long Term For Cap Space
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 7652
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSlim wrote:
If we're relying on last season success in the passing game for future success, then I think we're setting up ourselves to fail.

Even with Mariota's success, I don't know how you could watch our WRs and feel we don't need more talent there.


Want more talent there, yes.

Need it as in we'll fail without it? No.

As it sits right now we have Matthews, Walker and Murray as 3 options. Henry proved useful out of the backfield too but given Murray is our lead back I won't count him.

Drafting a guy like Davis or Williams adds potentially another. Drafting Howard(which we almost seem certain to do at this point given we let Fasano go for practically nothing) would add another as well.

Then you have Sharpe who has a chance to be a decent enough player in this league.

Those options allow you to skip on forcing yourself to sign a guy in FA.
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ironlion


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not our money. It's the billionaire owners money. Hence why I have no problem with them spending money. It's theirs to spend not mine. But hey at least we have lots of cap space in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, aaaaaaand 2022. I'd hate to pay pro bowlers this year in case we need to sign someone to a contract in 5 years from now.
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Buckeyeboy89


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
Not to diminish his play at all, but Mariota should probably play a full season first before even thinking of a new contract.


Totally agree
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ragevsuall17


Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick update on our cap situation:

As of right now, we have about 48M in cap space.

That number doesn't include figures for guys like Williams, Weems, and Cassell... someone posted on another thread that Williams contract was for a total of about 18M, but I haven't seen any details anywhere... like I said, the Titans are slow about releasing official info... and they obviously are airtight with leaks...

I suspect us to have about 35M after those contracts are announced and taking our rookie pool into account.

Cutting McCourty would give us 7M, Searcy 4.5M, Douglas 3.7M... if they see the need to save some money. I'm going to go with numbers assuming we don't make any significant moves (either cuts, or new signings/extensions)

Currently, we have 123M on the books for 2018... add 15M for the Cassell and Williams numbers in addition to Lewan's option, that will be activated in May.

If the cap continues growing the way it has, it will sit at about 176M. We will roll the 35M over (again, not taking into account any moves, as noted above), giving us a total cap of 211M. With an estimated 138M in commitments (not counting any new FA contracts/trades/extensions), we will have ~73M in cap space.



FWIW, we're going into next season with more cap money than the Jags... for the first time in what seems like forever. Currently they have about 38M in cap space if you take the rookie pool into account. So while they'll have a little more than us in carryover, they already have 143M accounted for next year... and that's not counting the option for Bortles. Without Bortles' extension, we should have about 5M more than them... if they activate the option, we'll have about 15-20M more cap space than them. Both teams have several contracts they can get out of to save additional cap space in '18, but that's getting way ahead of ourselves.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0634521462580973948-4

Williams contract details.

Gross.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0634521462580973948-4

Williams contract details.

Gross.


Its really a 1yr/7M contract (5M cap hit in '17)... but yeah, even seeing it like that is pretty disgusting. He was horrible against the run last year... wonder what they see him adding to the team... is it worth more than a receiver or a CB at a similar investment would have meant to this team.

Of course, watch him have a good year... not likely but possible... He's young, had potential, and been part of good- great defenses...

They must have a plan... but I didn't see the fit or need... especially when a similar investment could have improved our secondary situation...
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They must have a plan... but I didn't see the fit or need... especially when a similar investment could have improved our secondary situation...
This is my main problem with the signing. The money we gave to Williams is similar to the money guys like Pryor, Claiborne and Carr signed for.

I mean, it's a million less than what Dontari Poe and Bennie Logan signed for. And he's not even close to their league at NT.

Williams and Cyprien combine for $3 million more per year than what Tony Jefferson got from the Ravens.

There are just so many other places $7 million could have been used that would have actually benefitted the team more than on a nose tackle that probably isn't even an upgrade over Austin Johnson.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
Quote:
They must have a plan... but I didn't see the fit or need... especially when a similar investment could have improved our secondary situation...
This is my main problem with the signing. The money we gave to Williams is similar to the money guys like Pryor, Claiborne and Carr signed for.

I mean, it's a million less than what Dontari Poe and Bennie Logan signed for. And he's not even close to their league at NT.

Williams and Cyprien combine for $3 million more per year than what Tony Jefferson got from the Ravens.

There are just so many other places $7 million could have been used that would have actually benefitted the team more than on a nose tackle that probably isn't even an upgrade over Austin Johnson.


I'm going to trust the film study they have done.
Tony Jefferson had the "name." But when you look at production is Jefferson a superior player?
Cyperien more starts

Cyperien 4 year totals
453 combined tackles
341 total tackles
112 assisted tackles
2.0 sacks
15 passed defended
2 Ints
4 Forced fumbles

Jefferson 4 year totals
277 combined tackles
225 total tackles
52 assisted tackles
5.0 sacks
11 pass defended
2 Ints
6 forced fumbles

I'll trust the personnel department in maybe they said they can get a similar player to Jefferson for a lesser cost and still get some other players.

I can agree with the idea that they could have went after another corner. But looking at the pool, I can understand them not going all out on some of the guys.
Still a couple guys out there on the cheap heap that could come compete. We shall see.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Cyperien 4 year totals
453 combined tackles
341 total tackles
112 assisted tackles
2.0 sacks
15 passed defended
2 Ints
4 Forced fumbles

Jefferson 4 year totals
277 combined tackles
225 total tackles
52 assisted tackles
5.0 sacks
11 pass defended
2 Ints
6 forced fumbles

C'mon KT, you know better than this. Bulk stats are so thoroughly unimportant for the safety position.

Otherwise, I'll just do this:

Michael Griffin, final four years as a starter with the Titans:
374 combined tackles
272 total tackles
102 assisted tackles
5.0 sacks
16 pass defended
8 interceptions
4 forced fumbles

Cyprien is exclusively useful in the box, so his tackle numbers will obviously be inflated as a result. Jefferson, while obviously a strong safety, has the versatility to play both spots and remain useful in coverage, which would have allowed Byard to rotate around and play to his strengths.

And for the record, we're comparing Jefferson's numbers in 31 starts to Cyprien's numbers in 60 starts. I would hope he would have an edge in most categories.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
Quote:
Cyperien 4 year totals
453 combined tackles
341 total tackles
112 assisted tackles
2.0 sacks
15 passed defended
2 Ints
4 Forced fumbles

Jefferson 4 year totals
277 combined tackles
225 total tackles
52 assisted tackles
5.0 sacks
11 pass defended
2 Ints
6 forced fumbles

C'mon KT, you know better than this. Bulk stats are so thoroughly unimportant for the safety position.

Otherwise, I'll just do this:

Michael Griffin, final four years as a starter with the Titans:
374 combined tackles
272 total tackles
102 assisted tackles
5.0 sacks
16 pass defended
8 interceptions
4 forced fumbles


Hey them first 4 years for Grif weren't all that terrible. lol Yeah he had Big Al and that pass rush helping him tremendously.
Yeah we have a little more exposure to Cyp since we played him two times a year.
We haven't seen Jefferson, so can we actually say he is tremendously better? Before this off-season, I wasn't hearing about this boss of a player Jefferson. It was all Honey Badger
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey them first 4 years for Grif weren't all that terrible. lol Yeah he had Big Al and that pass rush helping him tremendously.
Yeah we have a little more exposure to Cyp since we played him two times a year.
We haven't seen Jefferson, so can we actually say he is tremendously better? Before this off-season, I wasn't hearing about this boss of a player Jefferson. It was all Honey Badger

Oh, those are Griff's final four years here. I wanted to make sure I chose some terrible safety play for the comparison. Laughing

I think part of what got the national attention for Jefferson was that, for the first time, he showed that he had the versatility and ability to handle either safety spot. Which, to me, is what made him such a better option than a guy like Cyprien, who is incredibly limited in how he can be used as a safety on the field (though admittedly, he may have some value as a dime ILB).
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we shall see how they use him.
I'm guessing they felt they could have the similar player to Jefferson for a much cheaper price.

Like always.. We shall see Smile
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TT4Life7


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that Mariota and the passing game was able to set franchise records is more of a testament to Mariota's abilities as a QB then it is our offense not needing quality receivers. So because Mariota was still able to do well statistically that means we don't need a true no. 1 receiver? We shouldn't give him more weapons to grow with in order to help him reach that next level because our offense doesn't require them? Because Mariota put up some above average stats we dont need to try and get better there? What?

Mariota is effecient. He doesn't turn the ball over in the red zone and scores often when he's there. Thats why he was able to break franchise records (which wasnt that lofty to begin with compared to the rest of the NFL mind you), not because his receivers were good enough to get the job done.

There were more game than not when our receivers were so draped by defenders that I would cringe every time Mariota had to force a ball to one of them simply because he had no where else to go. We lack a legitimate, true no. 1 receiver that can consistently create seperation, get open, and make plays. We have a decent no. 2 but Mariota needs a legit guy on the outside that he can trust and go to for a large portion of his career. He's not Tom Brady where he can make average look great, and even then the Patriots still have the quantity over quality thing goin on. We have one decent receiver. Thats it and thats not good enough.

You cant make an argument and say our offense isnt a problem when we went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Obviously it wasnt good enough. 7 out of 16 games we scored 20 or less so there are still things on offense that need to be addressed and WR is clearly number 1. We're not a power house on offense and that the only reason we missed out on the playoffs was because of defense and ST. There were plenty of games that we lost because of the offense and a few low scoring games that we scraped by but still got a W.

If you want to make the argument that our offense doesnt require a top WR, then fine. Lets try the quantity approach and bring in a few good to above average guys and spread the ball around, but if you think its ok to have the likes of Rishard Mathews, Kendall Wright, Tajae Sharpe, and Harry Douglas as your developing franchise QBs WR group then idk what to tell you. Its even worse as it stands now, but theres​ still a few who'd rather go TE early instead because hes gonna be so great that he will single handedly make WRs on this offense irrelevant or something. I dont get it.

Of all the 2016 playoff teams, 10 out of the 12 have franchise QBs and only 3 teams dont have a true no. 1 receiver. Thats including the Patriots who have Edelman as well as a few above average guys, KC who still have Maclin and Tyreek, and the Lions who still have Tate and Marvin Jones. All of which are waaaaaaay better than Mariota's options.

When it pertains to this offseason, did we need to go after the top options in FA? No. I wouldn't have minded signing Alshon or Pryor to 1 year prove it deals, but thats not what the Titans wanted to do so whatever. But if we don't even try to find our future no. 1 early in this draft Im going to lose my mind.

Aside from that, I agree with what you're saying about being smart with our future money. I wasnt surprised with what JRob did this FA (or lack there of) because hes a "build through the draft" type of guy and has made that well known. He also doesn't want to be a team who could potentially be in cap hell in the future and be unable to pay his own guys when the time comes. Maybe he's so confident in his ability to hit on picks that he's assuming he'll need the space to sign future picks to future contracts? Laughing
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