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What Happened to Preston Smith?
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10249
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle - you really think a Stanford graduate is dumb enough to put something into his body without knowing exactly what it is? Especially when he has access to a team nutritionist whose primary purpose is to answer any questions a player may have on supplements that may be banned?
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 18978
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Well, well, well Preston. Maybe not as terrible of a year as everyone thinks he had.

Quote:
9) Washington Redskins (2.83 average distance to quarterback)

The Washington defense was worked over on the ground this year, but their secondary and front seven are littered with talented players. Second-year edge defender Preston Smith is their best pass-rusher, ranking 16th in the NFL with 4.03 yards of distance to the quarterback at the time of throw or sack. Smith racked up 13 sacks over his first two seasons. Ryan Kerrigan led the team this year with 11 sacks. Both he and Trent Murphy finished above the NFL average in the Next Gen Stats individual pressure metric for edge players with 100-plus rush attempts. The biggest surprise for Washington had to be the play of defensive end Chris Baker, who ranked 16th among interior pass rushers with 4.29 average yards of distance to the quarterback. Baker heads into free agency this year after a strong season and will comm and attention if his current team cannot re-sign him.
Yep, as I said earlier in bud thread he was leading us in qb hurries at one time which actually sometimes can help others get sacks because Smiths hurry rushed the qb away from his side and towards Kerrigan/Murphy. Murphy took Smiths stats from last year, but that's not to say that smith was horrible. He got as much or more pressure than Kerrigan over the course of the season and did I vs good to great LTs all year except for Flowers whose avg at best.


And he did it without using PEDs!

The whole league is on PEDS and painkillers to play each week. I don't care that about it either, the player still has to outperform the others. Murphy just stupidly got caught like Trent did with weed.

I still think it was probably a supplement like amino acids or whatever from gnc or testosterone booster. I don't think he was really shooting up.


Dude, he put on weight and got faster lol. We all know what he was doing. I said it last year. He's just an idiot and got caught.
Ok dr Lavar have you seen his test results and what he actually got knocked for?

He was eating 8!full meals a day and taking protein shakes like crazy of course he's going to put on 20 pounds.

Anthony Lanier and RJF put on 15 to 20 pounds as did Kedric Golston last offseason too.

Let's not forget that Lane Johnson got freakin 10 games for amino acids which is just beyond my comprehension that's a joke!


I work out a lot. I know a lot more about it than most normal folks. You don't put on 20lbs and get faster. Not to mention he's long past his muscle building peak since he's been lifting for years. What he did wasn't normal and I told you that when it was happening and you argued it then. It was so incredibly obvious but people decided to put their heads in the sand.
Well I don't even know why I'm bothering posting this but I will. My cousin owns a gym and is a certified nutritionalist and person trainer as is my best friend. It's not like I'm talking out of butt either.

Murphy at first out on 20 pounds like most of our DL did last offseason - except Baker who lost 10 to 15 - so he got up to 285 and got stronger but then he was asked to shed the weight he gained when Galette got hurt which was probably some fat so that he weighed 285.

So, he did that but that doesn't mean he lost that strength. So he got stronger and bigger but then cut that 20 pounds, you don't think that will make you quicker if you do that?

He essentially got up to have the strength of a lineman but was asked to get his size down to that of an OLB again and he did. This made him quicker and faster and frankly he should have done this stuff his rookie year but word he said he didn't like to eat a lot and didn't know much about nutrition. You're not going to gain wait by just lifting weights - but you will get stronger - you gain wait by putting calories into your body. That's the part he added last offseason. He went from like 3,000 calories a day to double it or
More that's how he put on the weight. He was working out with the lineman so he got stronger.

Until I see some report that he did the cream in the clear like Barry bonds or shot himself up with anabolic steroids daily, I'll continue to believe that he was taking over the counter stuff and didn't realize it was banned like amino acids.
Ah yes, the old "I have a cousin that knows these things" defense.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Well, well, well Preston. Maybe not as terrible of a year as everyone thinks he had.

Quote:
9) Washington Redskins (2.83 average distance to quarterback)

The Washington defense was worked over on the ground this year, but their secondary and front seven are littered with talented players. Second-year edge defender Preston Smith is their best pass-rusher, ranking 16th in the NFL with 4.03 yards of distance to the quarterback at the time of throw or sack. Smith racked up 13 sacks over his first two seasons. Ryan Kerrigan led the team this year with 11 sacks. Both he and Trent Murphy finished above the NFL average in the Next Gen Stats individual pressure metric for edge players with 100-plus rush attempts. The biggest surprise for Washington had to be the play of defensive end Chris Baker, who ranked 16th among interior pass rushers with 4.29 average yards of distance to the quarterback. Baker heads into free agency this year after a strong season and will comm and attention if his current team cannot re-sign him.
Yep, as I said earlier in bud thread he was leading us in qb hurries at one time which actually sometimes can help others get sacks because Smiths hurry rushed the qb away from his side and towards Kerrigan/Murphy. Murphy took Smiths stats from last year, but that's not to say that smith was horrible. He got as much or more pressure than Kerrigan over the course of the season and did I vs good to great LTs all year except for Flowers whose avg at best.


And he did it without using PEDs!

The whole league is on PEDS and painkillers to play each week. I don't care that about it either, the player still has to outperform the others. Murphy just stupidly got caught like Trent did with weed.

I still think it was probably a supplement like amino acids or whatever from gnc or testosterone booster. I don't think he was really shooting up.


Dude, he put on weight and got faster lol. We all know what he was doing. I said it last year. He's just an idiot and got caught.
Ok dr Lavar have you seen his test results and what he actually got knocked for?

He was eating 8!full meals a day and taking protein shakes like crazy of course he's going to put on 20 pounds.

Anthony Lanier and RJF put on 15 to 20 pounds as did Kedric Golston last offseason too.

Let's not forget that Lane Johnson got freakin 10 games for amino acids which is just beyond my comprehension that's a joke!


I work out a lot. I know a lot more about it than most normal folks. You don't put on 20lbs and get faster. Not to mention he's long past his muscle building peak since he's been lifting for years. What he did wasn't normal and I told you that when it was happening and you argued it then. It was so incredibly obvious but people decided to put their heads in the sand.
Well I don't even know why I'm bothering posting this but I will. My cousin owns a gym and is a certified nutritionalist and person trainer as is my best friend. It's not like I'm talking out of butt either.

Murphy at first out on 20 pounds like most of our DL did last offseason - except Baker who lost 10 to 15 - so he got up to 285 and got stronger but then he was asked to shed the weight he gained when Galette got hurt which was probably some fat so that he weighed 285.

So, he did that but that doesn't mean he lost that strength. So he got stronger and bigger but then cut that 20 pounds, you don't think that will make you quicker if you do that?

He essentially got up to have the strength of a lineman but was asked to get his size down to that of an OLB again and he did. This made him quicker and faster and frankly he should have done this stuff his rookie year but word he said he didn't like to eat a lot and didn't know much about nutrition. You're not going to gain wait by just lifting weights - but you will get stronger - you gain wait by putting calories into your body. That's the part he added last offseason. He went from like 3,000 calories a day to double it or
More that's how he put on the weight. He was working out with the lineman so he got stronger.

Until I see some report that he did the cream in the clear like Barry bonds or shot himself up with anabolic steroids daily, I'll continue to believe that he was taking over the counter stuff and didn't realize it was banned like amino acids.


A few things:

1) If they are saying you can put on 20 lbs in one offseason and get faster, and do it without PEDs, they are rither lying, or need to turn their certifications back in

2) Yes, you can gain weight. But you're not going to pack on 30 lbs in one offseason and get faster. Its not all going to be muscle. And it will not be "fast twitch" muscle hes adding

3) This is a thread about Preston, correct? Why are we talking about Trent? Do it over there in his thread.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I can't remember specific names but the sentiment was out there because up until that point, Baker had proven less than these too.


And these two just got contracts that are 2.5x bigger than what Baker did (and got less than what Baker got in the same market). Even taking into account the expansion in the salary cap, you have to agree that's an awfully big jump.
It's also 4 years later. So this is the Kirk Cousins argument. His contract could cost more than a Rodger's but that doesn't mean that Kirk is better than Rodgers. The market is determining how much he'll get paid by someone.


Already addressed. There is a difference going from 5y/$110M contract to a 5y/$125M-130M (18.2% growth), and going from 3y/$9M to 4y/$21M (133.3% growth). Heck, McClain got $11M in guarantees, so not only did he get 52% guaranteed, he also got more in guarantees than Baker's previous entire contract.

The salary cap doesn't explain that big of a jump. The dysfunction tax might.

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Also, while Baker may have proven less than these two, he was an in-house talent. They knew what they had in Baker. With these two, we have no idea.
that's where he pro scouts come in like Alex Santos ands others and McCloughan before he was let go. Anyone watching these two last year could see they were trending upward and their deals are structured in a way that Mccgee could be gone in a year and McLain in 2, just like we did with Paea.


So, we should celebrate that guys they got for 4 and 5 year deals already have outs at the 1 and 2 year marks? How are these guys different than say signing Bruton or Culliver then?

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Im comparing effort and talent level, that scout is comparing strength and a player who has 2 more years of experience.


Quote:
Let's ignore McClain for a bit, since he nominally would have been playing next to Baker.
So ignore my point, oh how convient for you! Laughing


Okay, I'll address it.

I believe your ability to evaluate players is ... lacking ... if you think Baker is less talented than McClain or McGee. However, that's my take. Let's try some neutral sources, but ones whose job it is to cover football:

NFL.com Top 101 Free Agents (you may need to click "Full Top 101")
Baker = 26th
McClain = 93rd
McGee = unranked

ProFootballTalk Hot 100 Free Agents
Baker = 29th
McClain = unranked
McGee = unranked

Rotoworld 2017 NFL Free Agent list
Baker = 6th best Defensive Lineman
McClain = 28th best Defensive Lineman
McGee = 12th best Defensive Lineman

So, three separate sources, all ranking Baker as significantly more value as a free agent than McClain and McGee. Care for me to continue?

turtle28 wrote:
Bakers cap hit is $6 mil this year, twice as much as McClain and nearly 3 times as much as McGee.


Because the vast majority of his contract guarantees are falling in year one (guaranteed salary in 2017 and a roster bonus in 2017, followed by a chance of portion of 2018 salary to be guaranteed). So, arguably, the Bucs deal with Baker is better since they can get out of his contract after one year with no dead cap. That is something that we cannot say with McClain or McGee

Further, if we're going to use cap number as symbol of team virtue, let's take a look at them over the life of the contracts:
Baker
2017 - $3M salary (guaranteed), $3M roster bonus (guaranteed) = $6M cap value
2018 - $4.875M salary (guarantees on 5th day of league year) = $4.875M cap value
2019 - $4.875M salary = $4.875M cap value

McClain
2017 - $2.25M salary (guaranteed), $1.25M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $3.75M [NOTE: OTC, for reasons I don't fully grok, has his cap number at $3,734,375, which makes no sense with the aforementioned entries]
2018 - $3.25M salary, $1.25M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $4.75M cap value
2019 - $4M salary, $1.25M signing bonus portion, $0.5M roster bonus = $5.75M cap value
2020 - $5M salary, $1.25M signing bonus portion, $0.5M roster bonus = $6.75M cap value

McGee
2017 - $2.25M salary (guaranteed), $0.8M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $3.3M [NOTE: Again, OTC has a weird cap number of $3,190,625]
2018 - $3.75M salary, $0.8M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $4.8M
2019 - $3.75M salary, $0.8M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $4.8M
2020 - $4.75M salary, $0.8M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $5.8M
2021 - $5.25M salary, $0.8M signing bonus portion, $0.25M roster bonus = $6.3M


First, note that McGee's number is nearly the same as McClain's, so they both have half of Baker's cap number this year. Second, note that after this year, it equalizes out and then they surpass Baker's cap in years 3 and beyond.

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Quote:
Let's compare McGee and Baker since that's who Stacy is replacing. How do you figure he's got equivalent talent?
Talent, yes. McGee was a 6th round pick, Baker was an UDFA.


Brock Osweiler was drafted in the 3rd round of 2012. Kirk Cousins was drafted in the 4th round. Are we going to say that Osweiler is more talented than Kirk?

We both know that the draft is based on projecting talent. Once you get into the NFL, it's what you actually do. On that front, Baker smoked McGee.

Quote:
Also, we don't know that's McGee is replacing Baker yet exactly, do we?

McGee could be replacing Golston/Hood @ NT or RJF as our 2 gaping DE while McClain would replace Baker as the pass rushing 3 technique DE. I think that's more likely the case but we don't know for sure because I don't think it's been reported.


Let me help you with that (something I posted elsewhere ... see how easy it is to miss?): http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30516/as-redskins-re-shuffle-line-interest-remains-in-bennie-logan-others

John Keim wrote:
Saying hello: The Redskins view Terrell McClain as a nose tackle in base and a tackle in nickel.
...
Saying hello (part 2): Stacy McGee will play end in base and tackle in Washington's nickel package.


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I'm not even talking about the scheme anymore with you, it's beyond tiring explaining the similaties on what we now run and the 4-3 scheme.


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And as I have said many times before, then why keep the fiction of a 3-4 around?
So I guess you were against hiring Wade Phillips too.. he developed the scheme so we'd be running it if he was here.


I wasn't gung ho for hiring Phillips, no. If we had to stick with the 3-4, he would have been a good hire, but I wasn't upset to see him go. Actually the guy I wanted was Mike Pettine.

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Did you read what I posted in the other thread from 2 analysts? Or the articles I posted in each of the last 2 seasons.


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Which thread? I might have missed it. I have read how we have moved from a 2-gap to a 1-gap system ... and have seen no real improvements. Or that we run a 4 man front 70%+ of the time, but still think signing guys who are two-down run stoppers who cannot stop the run is a good idea.

But we'll get the talent. We just have to be patient. It will come ... now going into year 8. Our scouts and coaching staff is just about to turn a corner. Just need to sign some top quality free agents (uh oh) and draft some players (we'll see).
2017 Free Agency thread.

The difference between what we run and what Seattle runs for example is that we have 4 LBs and they have 3 LBs that are smaller than our 2 OLBs.

That's the difference between what we are doing - which the Broncos, Ravens, 49ers, Chargers, Cardinals (#1 d last year) and Bears - and that's it.


Interesting collection of teams there.
Seattle = 3rd PPG
Denver = 4th PPG
Baltimore = 9th PPG
Arizona = 14th PPG

Washington = 19th PPG
Chicago = 24th PPG
San Diego = 29th PPG
San Francisco = 32nd PPG

So, either really good or really bad. Hmm. Think

Quote:
We haven't gotten acquired enough talent - no matter the scheme, except for 2009 and 2011 - since 2004.

That's not a new issues. I said in another thread in 04 we added Taylor, Springs, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, Salavea, Ryan Clark and Phillip Daniels. We haven't seen that kind of infusion into our d in one offseason sense, it's been more offensive focused some then expect 09 & 11.


While I cannot point to anything, I suspect the front office folks and coaching staff have decided to focus on the offense to appease the Snyder.

Quote:
I mean if we sign Logan, Poe or Hankins and 1 ILB will you still be upset? I can't imagine you will be, if you will be then it seems you're just not going to be satisfied no matter what.


No, I wouldn't.

I'm also under no illusions that we'll get any of those free agents. That's where I differ from you: I realize that we've become a toxic cesspool to any top name free agent.

I will admit I was quite surprised that Pryor signed with us. Then I realized what he had done (realized the market wasn't as strong for him, so he took a single year deal to get a decent paycheck and try again the next year, hopefully with better stats) and figured that made the most sense for him. As I said, it was a simple mercenary move that will help only him.
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