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Does Von have any trade value?
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 8704
Location: USA
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Helicopter wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
^^^Kukiak and Mike Shanahan were the best at closing out games...if they had a lead with mid-way through the 4th quarter, forget about it...they win.


Only when they had a running game. The second half flops became unbearable. He couldn't adjust to save his life.


What are you talking about? During the Super Bowl year, all the Broncos did was adjust...it seemed like they were losing at half-time in virtually every game...and by the fourth quarter the Broncos were closing in to either tie or take a lead...and once they did take the lead, the game was over. Kubiak and Shanahan know how to manage a game...there is no doubt about that.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
The Patriots are able to do what they do because Belichick is a genius.

He is the greatest coach in the history of the game when it comes to adapting not only to the players on his roster, but what the rest of the league is doing. He's won football games and championships in so many different ways and with so many different schemes. Belichick doesn't adhere to any specific scheme or system, like many coaches in this league, he takes what his roster gives him and puts his players in a position to succeed.

If you look at the Patriots since he has taken over they've won by being a smash mouth running team with a dominant 3/4 defense. They've won out of the shotgun and the vertical passing game. They've dinked and dunked to wins. They've played 3/4, hybrid, and 4/3 alignments. The Patriots are a different team almost every year.

The Patriots wouldn't have 5 SB's without Brady, but IMO, they probably still would have 2 or 3. I don't think the Patriots have 1 without Belichick.



I'd have to agree with everything you said. And the greatest thing about Bill B in my mind is he's able to field a top 5 roster yearly despite having poor resources to do so. I mean people say hiw drafting is so critical which it is a Bill B has had success picking bottom 5 every year. I'd love to know the Patriots average first round pick since he's been there.

Heck his success rate in the first round since he's been there is probably 20% or less the guy is amazing.


I would argue that Bill Belichick has rarely, if ever, had a Top 5 roster in terms of pure talent. He does, however, coach his players up to maximize what they can contribute. In fact, I would say Belichick is also not an especially good drafter. He has some hits, but relative to other teams, his draft record is poor.

Also underrated is how great their home field advantage is. Foxborough is cold and damp and loud. That makes for a tough environment.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-belichick-nfl-draft-new-england-patriots/

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4797150/most-notable-trades-among-bill-belichicks-121-with-patriots


I don'tknow how you can say he's a below average gm the guy is dealt a bottom 5 pick every year. And he knows that's not a recipe for success so he trades picks for future picks, trades for moss , and Welker, trades branch for a 1st, and Cassel for a second.


If he tradesJimmy G for a firsthe truly is a mastermind.


I was the biggest Paxton Lynch And Dak Prescott supporter last year I liked Paxton better but Elway couldof finnagled the Cowboys for a future first round pick and a third. And if we drafted Dak and had two first in this draft we'd be in tremendous shape.


Bill B turns water into wine even if he yields a top 10 roster that is crazy considering Pats are always in the post season.


Just trading players for picks doesn't make him a tremendous GM. You still need to hit on the picks. He doesn't do that as well as some other GMs, but he is a significantly better coach than anyone else which makes up for it. Yes, he is able to pull off trades but point me to some of his great draft classes in terms of raw talent?

I don't quite understand the second part of your post. I loved Dak Prescott, I was all aboard that train before his senior season even started, but you're playing with some major revisionist history. Sure we "might" have been able to get him and get two firsts, but who's to say Dallas would have definitively offered one up? Also, Dak is playing behind the best OL, in a simplified offense with a tremendous RB. Why would he have suddenly succeeded in Denver, who everyone agrees needs an entire new OL? He wouldn't have succeeded, and he wouldn't have seen the field. Dak only played because Romo got hurt. It's WAY too early to start claiming Lynch is better or worse than Dak.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Also, Dak is playing behind the best OL, in a simplified offense with a tremendous RB. Why would he have suddenly succeeded in Denver, who everyone agrees needs an entire new OL? He wouldn't have succeeded, and he wouldn't have seen the field. Dak only played because Romo got hurt. It's WAY too early to start claiming Lynch is better or worse than Dak.


Great points. They should be pretty obvious to most but apparently they aren't.

I'd love to see both Siemian and Lynch behind a good OL. They both took a real beating behind our OL. Enough so that it affected their play.

It's quite possible, maybe probable that either one would have played as well as or better in Prescotts situation. We'll never know, but comparing results of the three in 2016 is "apples and oranges".

Hopefully we get an idea of how our young QB's do behind a good OL this year.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small sample size, but Lynch got great protection in that TB game where Siemian got hurt, and he was flinging the ball all over the field.

One area where Lynch really intrigues me is that intermediate to long distance accuracy. It's rare for younger guys to be accurate in that 10-20 yard range, but I think Lynch surpasses Siemian there just because his arm is naturally stronger. The problem is, his footwork is a mess. If Lynch can make 80% of the progress Trevor made in his 1st to 2nd year, he's going to be the starter and we're going to make the playoffs.
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The Helicopter


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
The Helicopter wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
^^^Kukiak and Mike Shanahan were the best at closing out games...if they had a lead with mid-way through the 4th quarter, forget about it...they win.


Only when they had a running game. The second half flops became unbearable. He couldn't adjust to save his life.


What are you talking about? During the Super Bowl year, all the Broncos did was adjust...it seemed like they were losing at half-time in virtually every game...and by the fourth quarter the Broncos were closing in to either tie or take a lead...and once they did take the lead, the game was over. Kubiak and Shanahan know how to manage a game...there is no doubt about that.


Post SB years and the steady decline that followed. They used to fly out of the gate and then barely hang on or lose because they couldn't adjust.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Helicopter wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
The Helicopter wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
^^^Kukiak and Mike Shanahan were the best at closing out games...if they had a lead with mid-way through the 4th quarter, forget about it...they win.


Only when they had a running game. The second half flops became unbearable. He couldn't adjust to save his life.


What are you talking about? During the Super Bowl year, all the Broncos did was adjust...it seemed like they were losing at half-time in virtually every game...and by the fourth quarter the Broncos were closing in to either tie or take a lead...and once they did take the lead, the game was over. Kubiak and Shanahan know how to manage a game...there is no doubt about that.


Post SB years and the steady decline that followed. They used to fly out of the gate and then barely hang on or lose because they couldn't adjust.


I am going to have to disagree with you. I was pretty confident in Shanahan and Kubes ability to close out a game. With Fox I was always worried. Alas, we can argue all day long about this...neither Shanahan or Kubes is the coach any longer.
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