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Khalil Mack wins Defensive Player of the Year
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1429
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:

Aaron Donald realistically and Kwann Short on an overpay.


I'll give you Donald. Let's assume he's going to be the highest paid defender.
Von Miller became the highest paid defender this season and got 125k over 6 years more than Suh (the previously highest paid defender), one year after Suh's contract. That's a 20K/Year raise. Should we believe the next guys to top that contract are going to get a 2M/Year raise? I guess it could happen but there's nothing that could lead anyone to predict such a raise.


There are a few reasons why his contract could jump up.

1) Playoff run: Players get paid a premium as a key player on winning teams.

2) Justin Houston 2015 6yr $101 million vs Von Miller 2016 6yr $114 million. Clowney, Donald, and Ansah could all get huge deals before we resign Mack.

3) A top player does not need to beat Miller's contract. Lower tiered players could get over paid causing Mack's value to increase. Kwann Short, Poe, and Jason Pierre-Paul could all get deals that would increase the price for top tiered players.


1. The contract used as reference here is Von Miller's. He was coming off a SB win. If there's such thing as a bonus for team results, he got it.

2.Miller got the highest contract for a defender. The contract his agent wanted to top was Suh's. Someone will get more soon but it won't go much higher than that.

3.You're going to be looking at odds when trying to preview how the market could evolve. The odds of a second tier player getting the top defender contract is low.


Your rebuttal of #2 confirms the reason for my #1 point.

#2 - Do want to see how contracts have increased from 2014 to 2016. We could see a large bump (I do not think as big) from 2016 to 2018. With the amount of cap teams have this year I could easily see myself scratching my head trying to justify why teams are paying players. Olivier Vernon might look like a good deal.

#3 - Do really think players like JPP($15-16), Short ($17-1Cool, and Ansah ($16-17) getting big contracts is not going to push Mack's higher in the next 2 years. I even forgot Sheldon Richardson. If he can get his stuff together he will sign a large contract also. If Clowney stays healthy and builds off of what we saw at the end of the year what do think he gets? If they exercise his 5th year option it might be close $15 million. 2017 numbers for the transition tag are estimated to be $14 for DE and $12.4 for LB.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
G wrote:
Option #4 I fully explain the situation to both Carr and Mack. They will be Raiders and were willing to Franchise and 5th year option. However we'd like to sign both now to let everyone feel secure and happy. So long-term deals that average the years and savings into 5th year and franchising options. I tell them these offers are here all season to sign if you want...
OR
Carr franchises next season and Mack is 5th year opt'd and then we will do deals. I think both might sign team friendly that means less per season now with security and knowing they will be taken care of long-term.
I'd not sign any top notch FA's and wait for cuts and discounted FA's that want to be a part of us on the rise.
I'd like to offer Gabe Jackson a decent deal as it gives us more flexibility with Osemele, who I'd move to RT depending on FA's or draft.


So option #4 is let the player decide out of option #1-3.


I look at it as a hybrid and being upfront and honest with the player.
We all want to feel Important. Giving both 5 yr 100mil extensions that kick in after the 5th year expires gives them security NOW instead of getting 5 year 125 mil two years from now. Maybe it would be more or maybe players gets bad injury in contract year like Brees and doesn't feel wanted.
Mack and Carr seem like they WANT to be Raiders and lead us into a bright winning future. Were letting them have the choice to sign now a bit cheaper or take the chance for more later. I think they'd both be happy especially knowing they are both needed/wanted for our future and will be taken care of $$$
Personally I think the NFL has peaked and when TV contracts come up they won't be rising like before, unless a new network tries to jump into the fray.
If both signed we'd have cap to get decent FA's as the bonus would spread over the extra year for Carr and two for Mack.


Good way to explain it and I see where your going but it still comes down to the player choosing to resign to the terms of one of those first 3 options. It's just giving the player the choice and in affect the assurance that they are valued. This also makes the assumption that the players are smart logical and in control of the process of the decision. It would also highlight the kind of management we have and how they trust, for lack of a better word, the cornerstone players Carr and Mack have turned out to be. Speaks to the culture Reggie and JDR are building being lead and supported by good men. Interesting to think. Could being getting to deep but whatever.

With all that said, I still see the signing of both this year as the most agreeable option IMO. I think you agreed with that earlier as well.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1429
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
G wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
G wrote:
Option #4 I fully explain the situation to both Carr and Mack. They will be Raiders and were willing to Franchise and 5th year option. However we'd like to sign both now to let everyone feel secure and happy. So long-term deals that average the years and savings into 5th year and franchising options. I tell them these offers are here all season to sign if you want...
OR
Carr franchises next season and Mack is 5th year opt'd and then we will do deals. I think both might sign team friendly that means less per season now with security and knowing they will be taken care of long-term.
I'd not sign any top notch FA's and wait for cuts and discounted FA's that want to be a part of us on the rise.
I'd like to offer Gabe Jackson a decent deal as it gives us more flexibility with Osemele, who I'd move to RT depending on FA's or draft.


So option #4 is let the player decide out of option #1-3.


I look at it as a hybrid and being upfront and honest with the player.
We all want to feel Important. Giving both 5 yr 100mil extensions that kick in after the 5th year expires gives them security NOW instead of getting 5 year 125 mil two years from now. Maybe it would be more or maybe players gets bad injury in contract year like Brees and doesn't feel wanted.
Mack and Carr seem like they WANT to be Raiders and lead us into a bright winning future. Were letting them have the choice to sign now a bit cheaper or take the chance for more later. I think they'd both be happy especially knowing they are both needed/wanted for our future and will be taken care of $$$
Personally I think the NFL has peaked and when TV contracts come up they won't be rising like before, unless a new network tries to jump into the fray.
If both signed we'd have cap to get decent FA's as the bonus would spread over the extra year for Carr and two for Mack.


Good way to explain it and I see where your going but it still comes down to the player choosing to resign to the terms of one of those first 3 options. It's just giving the player the choice and in affect the assurance that they are valued. This also makes the assumption that the players are smart logical and in control of the process of the decision. It would also highlight the kind of management we have and how they trust, for lack of a better word, the cornerstone players Carr and Mack have turned out to be. Speaks to the culture Reggie and JDR are building being lead and supported by good men. Interesting to think. Could being getting to deep but whatever.

With all that said, I still see the signing of both this year as the most agreeable option IMO. I think you agreed with that earlier as well.


Carr does not have a 5th year option since he was a second round pick. Also from what I have read we would have to wait until Mack's 5th year is over to extend him. When you pick up the 5th year option no other money or options can be added. we would have to make this decision before the draft this year. We can still negotiate an extension up until March 2018 but after that the contract kicks in. The benefit of the 5th year is an extra 10 months to negotiate a contract.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
Also from what I have read we would have to wait until Mack's 5th year is over to extend him. When you pick up the 5th year option no other money or options can be added.


Luck's option was picked up and the Colts re-signed him in june one year later (before his 5th season) so i guess there's no such deadline.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
Also from what I have read we would have to wait until Mack's 5th year is over to extend him. When you pick up the 5th year option no other money or options can be added.


Luck's option was picked up and the Colts re-signed him in june one year later (before his 5th season) so i guess there's no such deadline.


I must have misread something but I did find this.

Many terms allowed in other contracts are prohibited from the fifth-year option. These terms include option bonuses, option exercise fees, option nonexercise fees, option buyouts, or any other compensation that stems from the team exercising or declining the 5th-year option (Sec. 7 (d), 31).

When a team exercises the option, it becomes guaranteed for injury only. If the player is on the teamís opening-day Active/Inactive roster for the option year, his salary becomes fully guaranteed for skill, cap, and injury.

The payments are not considered Rookie Salary and do not count toward League or Club Rookie Pools or Allocations. The playerís salary is also not subject to the 25% Rule.

The salary of the option year is also the only payment a player is eligible to receive for football services outside of minimum offseason workout per diems and compensation for non-football related team activities.
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Speed_Wrench


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6113
Location: Bay area
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Scary thing is we have to pay that


His Agent is gonna want the highest paid defensive player contract ever.. Confused but I'll gladly pay anything to keep Mack.


Yeah, I have been looking at the 3 options that we have with Mack.

Option 1 is we go the way that Denver handled Miller. We let him play out the 4th year of his contract at with a 6mil cap hit. Then we exercise the 5th yr option on him next year for around 12.7mil. Then we franchise tag him for 14-15mil. Denver ended up signing Von longterm before the season started tho which reduced the first year cap hit from that 15mil to 11.5mil. The next 5 years his cap hit is around 20mil. The down side for Mack here is it pushes his chance at another big deal out 2 more years. He'd be 32 before he was a free agent again if we keep him the whole deal.

Option #2 is we just sign him sign him to an extension this year. Mack loves this option because he not only gets the huge signing bonus but also gets to hit FA again at 30 at the latest. I can see a deal around 6yrs 115mil with the first yr being worth around 12mil in base, signing bouns and roster bonus together. This helps the Raiders as well because we know his cap hit and we can make him the highest paid player without having to see what Donald or Clowney get later.

Option #3 is of course is we let him play his 4th yr on the deal and then sign him to the 5th yr option next yr while we work on a deal. We have all of 2018 to hammer out a deal. This option only helps the team because they get the cheap cap hit in 2017 to possibly add more pieces on upfront contracts before Mack's huge salary hits the books in 2018. Mack agent is also put to the test to get a deal done to avoid the Franchise tag.


I like option #2, we get it done at terms we have control over rather than having to respond to what another team pays someone else, Mack will not complain or act out if he suddenly is not the highest paid, He just wants to play football and the getting paid a lot of money to do it is just a bonus to him.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Scary thing is we have to pay that


His Agent is gonna want the highest paid defensive player contract ever.. Confused but I'll gladly pay anything to keep Mack.


Yeah, I have been looking at the 3 options that we have with Mack.

Option 1 is we go the way that Denver handled Miller. We let him play out the 4th year of his contract at with a 6mil cap hit. Then we exercise the 5th yr option on him next year for around 12.7mil. Then we franchise tag him for 14-15mil. Denver ended up signing Von longterm before the season started tho which reduced the first year cap hit from that 15mil to 11.5mil. The next 5 years his cap hit is around 20mil. The down side for Mack here is it pushes his chance at another big deal out 2 more years. He'd be 32 before he was a free agent again if we keep him the whole deal.

Option #2 is we just sign him sign him to an extension this year. Mack loves this option because he not only gets the huge signing bonus but also gets to hit FA again at 30 at the latest. I can see a deal around 6yrs 115mil with the first yr being worth around 12mil in base, signing bouns and roster bonus together. This helps the Raiders as well because we know his cap hit and we can make him the highest paid player without having to see what Donald or Clowney get later.

Option #3 is of course is we let him play his 4th yr on the deal and then sign him to the 5th yr option next yr while we work on a deal. We have all of 2018 to hammer out a deal. This option only helps the team because they get the cheap cap hit in 2017 to possibly add more pieces on upfront contracts before Mack's huge salary hits the books in 2018. Mack agent is also put to the test to get a deal done to avoid the Franchise tag.


I like option #2, we get it done at terms we have control over rather than having to respond to what another team pays someone else, Mack will not complain or act out if he suddenly is not the highest paid, He just wants to play football and the getting paid a lot of money to do it is just a bonus to him.


I do not think we can make that assumption. Carr himself said he is not looking to take a team friendly deal. Plus Mack will not be negotiating a deal. He wants to concentrate on football but in almost all cases if the agent does not do their job they will be shown the door.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 2998
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
BayRaider wrote:
CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Scary thing is we have to pay that


His Agent is gonna want the highest paid defensive player contract ever.. Confused but I'll gladly pay anything to keep Mack.


Yeah, I have been looking at the 3 options that we have with Mack.

Option 1 is we go the way that Denver handled Miller. We let him play out the 4th year of his contract at with a 6mil cap hit. Then we exercise the 5th yr option on him next year for around 12.7mil. Then we franchise tag him for 14-15mil. Denver ended up signing Von longterm before the season started tho which reduced the first year cap hit from that 15mil to 11.5mil. The next 5 years his cap hit is around 20mil. The down side for Mack here is it pushes his chance at another big deal out 2 more years. He'd be 32 before he was a free agent again if we keep him the whole deal.

Option #2 is we just sign him sign him to an extension this year. Mack loves this option because he not only gets the huge signing bonus but also gets to hit FA again at 30 at the latest. I can see a deal around 6yrs 115mil with the first yr being worth around 12mil in base, signing bouns and roster bonus together. This helps the Raiders as well because we know his cap hit and we can make him the highest paid player without having to see what Donald or Clowney get later.

Option #3 is of course is we let him play his 4th yr on the deal and then sign him to the 5th yr option next yr while we work on a deal. We have all of 2018 to hammer out a deal. This option only helps the team because they get the cheap cap hit in 2017 to possibly add more pieces on upfront contracts before Mack's huge salary hits the books in 2018. Mack agent is also put to the test to get a deal done to avoid the Franchise tag.


I like option #2, we get it done at terms we have control over rather than having to respond to what another team pays someone else, Mack will not complain or act out if he suddenly is not the highest paid, He just wants to play football and the getting paid a lot of money to do it is just a bonus to him.


I do not think we can make that assumption. Carr himself said he is not looking to take a team friendly deal. Plus Mack will not be negotiating a deal. He wants to concentrate on football but in almost all cases if the agent does not do their job they will be shown the door.


That's why option 2 is such an easy win for both sides. The agent makes him the highest paid defensive player, long term secure and gets him to a second deal as fast as reasonably possible plus it nullifies the risk of Mack getting hurt during the 5th yr option yr or franchise tag year. All wins for an agent.
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SBXISBXVSBXVIII


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Film analysts break down all 11 of Khalil Mack's sacks from 2016

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/film-analysts-break-down-all-11-of-khalil-macks-sacks-from-2016/
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