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Jamal Adams/Mike Williams vs. Berry/Jeffery (FA vs. Draft)

 
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Jamal Adams/Mike Williams vs. Berry/Jeffery (FA vs. Draft) Reply with quote

The purpose here is to have a more in-depth discussion on which route you prefer and think the Titans should and/or will take.

I've wrestled back and forth about which way is the best way to go about it. Is it better to spend money on a vet like Berry who has maybe 3-4 more years of truly productive(prime) play or sign Jamal Adams who could possibly give us 10 years of productive play.
Same with the WR position and CB position.

Do you attack the free agency field and go after top talent (if they hit the market) spend top dollar for the "proven" product but shorter span of talent?
or
Do you go get "your own" version of that player? Do we get our own Eric Berry and draft a guy like Jamal Adams? Do we try to get our own CB standout and draft Lattimore/Jones..etc.

We have this money, but do we go hard after guys and try to fill that need or draft guys who MAYBE could be their equivalent and get more years at a cheaper rate now?

I think it's an interesting decision for Robinson. Of course it could be made for him depending on who actually hits free agency.
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Last edited by KingTitan on Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ironlion


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the love of god spend some damn money. I'm so sick of this franchise being so damn cheap. Cue up the cap hell era of 2002 comments. Guess what we almost won a super bowl then. Our owners are so damn cheap. Of course they don't want to spend the money cause it stays in their pocket.

I totally understand not being insane and blowing the money on crap player. This year looks like it could potentially be the year where there truly are a ton of good to great FAs. Especially at CB.

I don't want anything to do with alshon. Let's buy a defense and draft young offensive talent to surround Marcus with to grow together. Give me Thomas at 5 to lock up pass rush for the next 10 years and spend every other pick on offense. WR, WR, TE, and a ultra fast RB(Murray will be gone after this year).

JRob has done an unreal job in one year, I think this year he pulls off the moves to make the Titans a dynasty type team.
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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me?

I'd prefer Berry/Jeffery although Jeffery's contract would have to be heavily team friendly.

What I think they'll actually do?

Go through the draft. For one, Berry isn't going anywhere. I've said it numerous times, the Chiefs will lock him up. I think if he was to become a FA, we'd be knocking down the door. I'd like to knock out a few needs way before the draft. Maybe sign a top level CB and WR and target S/ILB/TE/CB in the draft.
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Chocolateman78


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironlion wrote:
For the love of god spend some damn money. I'm so sick of this franchise being so damn cheap. Cue up the cap hell era of 2002 comments. Guess what we almost won a super bowl then. Our owners are so damn cheap. Of course they don't want to spend the money cause it stays in their pocket.

I totally understand not being insane and blowing the money on crap player. This year looks like it could potentially be the year where there truly are a ton of good to great FAs. Especially at CB.

I don't want anything to do with alshon. Let's buy a defense and draft young offensive talent to surround Marcus with to grow together. Give me Thomas at 5 to lock up pass rush for the next 10 years and spend every other pick on offense. WR, WR, TE, and a ultra fast RB(Murray will be gone after this year).

JRob has done an unreal job in one year, I think this year he pulls off the moves to make the Titans a dynasty type team.


And this flawed argument rears its head again. Show me examples of the Titans being cheap. Because I'll show you plenty to the contrary. They paid Casey, paid McCourty, signed Orakpo, signed Ben Jones, signed Rishard Mathews, we extended Walker early this season, traded for and paid Murray. Paid good money for a bad safety in Searcy and a bad corner in Perish Cox. Even under Webster, as big of a bust as he was... they made Andy Levitre the leagues highest paid guard. In fact our "cheap" owner went out of her way to fire a terrible HC in Whiz, even though his contract was fully guaranteed and they will still pay him for another 2 years.

So where exactly has this team failed to spend money? Because alot of people used to make this claim and it sounds just as senseless then as it does now.
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Chocolateman78


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the subject at hand. If Berry is available, you take him. He's too good. No matter how sweet the comparison maybe, nobody can for sure say that Adams will amount to what Berry has become.

My most ideal scenario would be signing Berry, Kenny Stills, Doyle and one of the FA corners (lets say Ryan) then doubling down with another corner with one of our 1sts (Lets say S. Jones), leaving the other 1st for us to get creative with (lets say Hassan Reddick.)

Gives us 2 new corners to compete with Sims for outside spots, with hopefully a restructured Mccourty playing a hybrid NB/FS/Rover position.

Safety would be set with Berry Byard and a resigned Stafford for ST and dime packages

Stills gives us a WR with something no one else has, speed. Him on the outside with Mathews would put Tajae in the slot which would likely benefit him. Hopefully Mathews can recruit him here.

Doyle is an athletic upgrade to Fasano

Reddick gives Lebeau a young explosive LB with dynamic pass rush abillity and some coverage skills.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going in to free agency this year, I don't even pay attention to who we can get in the draft. There are so many good players at different positions, we can get a solid player at an upgrade-able position regardless of who we sign.

I would target Jeffrey, Berry, Logan Ryan, Duron Harmon, several other FA CBs, several other FA WRs, Perry Riley and other FA LBs, and see which talented players we can bring to this team and then focus on who to take in the draft. Front load the contracts as much as possible to use up that ~26 million rollover cap we had that will not rollover to next year.

Jeffrey is likely looking at 13-14 mil per year. Ryan should be paid around 8-9 million. Amukamara around 5-6. Harmon around 3-4. Riley 2-4.

Players like Prince Amukamara and Perry Riley are ones that could start, and also could be rotated with other players on the team. Amukamara would be a solid #2 CB, but could also be used as our #3 and would get a lot of playing time. Riley could start beside Williamson, or if we draft Reuben Foster, he could replace Avery Williamson on passing downs.

I would love to add Alshon Jeffrey, Logan Ryan, Prince Amukamara, Duron Harmon, and go into the first round saying "which player fits our team the best?", not "which position do we need to fill?".
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ironlion


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
ironlion wrote:
For the love of god spend some damn money. I'm so sick of this franchise being so damn cheap. Cue up the cap hell era of 2002 comments. Guess what we almost won a super bowl then. Our owners are so damn cheap. Of course they don't want to spend the money cause it stays in their pocket.

I totally understand not being insane and blowing the money on crap player. This year looks like it could potentially be the year where there truly are a ton of good to great FAs. Especially at CB.

I don't want anything to do with alshon. Let's buy a defense and draft young offensive talent to surround Marcus with to grow together. Give me Thomas at 5 to lock up pass rush for the next 10 years and spend every other pick on offense. WR, WR, TE, and a ultra fast RB(Murray will be gone after this year).

JRob has done an unreal job in one year, I think this year he pulls off the moves to make the Titans a dynasty type team.


And this flawed argument rears its head again. Show me examples of the Titans being cheap. Because I'll show you plenty to the contrary. They paid Casey, paid McCourty, signed Orakpo, signed Ben Jones, signed Rishard Mathews, we extended Walker early this season, traded for and paid Murray. Paid good money for a bad safety in Searcy and a bad corner in Perish Cox. Even under Webster, as big of a bust as he was... they made Andy Levitre the leagues highest paid guard. In fact our "cheap" owner went out of her way to fire a terrible HC in Whiz, even though his contract was fully guaranteed and they will still pay him for another 2 years.

So where exactly has this team failed to spend money? Because alot of people used to make this claim and it sounds just as senseless then as it does now.


I guess what I'm saying is instead of signing mid level guys spend the money on at least one top tier free agent. I love the jrob team friendly way, just infuse 2 top level pro bowl type players. extending our good players is a completely different subject. We've been 20-40 mill under the cap the last few years. That's not spending the money to me. Overpaying for buffalo bill cast offs not what I'm looking for.
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Dionysus


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Jamal Adams/Mike Williams vs. Berry/Jeffery (FA vs. Draf Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
The purpose here is to have a more in-depth discussion on which route you prefer and think the Titans should and/or will take.

I've wrestled back and forth about which way is the best way to go about it. Is it better to spend money on a vet like Berry who has maybe 3-4 more years of truly productive(prime) play or sign Jamal Adams who could possibly give us 10 years of productive play.
Same with the WR position and CB position.

Do you attack the free agency field and go after top talent (if they hit the market) spend top dollar for the "proven" product but shorter span of talent?
or
Do you go get "your own" version of that player? Do we get our own Eric Berry and draft a guy like Jamal Adams? Do we try to get our own CB standout and draft Lattimore/Jones..etc.

We have this money, but do we go hard after guys and try to fill that need or draft guys who MAYBE could be their equivalent and get more years at a cheaper rate now?

I think it's an interesting decision for Robinson. Of course it could be made for him depending on who actually hits free agency.


Personally, I'm a big fan of growing your own talent vs. spending crazy money buying it in the FA market. I'd rather draft Jamal Adams than pursue Eric Berry. But if we do bring in Berry, you won't hear me complaining one bit. That would at least give us more wiggle room in the 1st round to go after a top CB or another area of need, or even just a BPA. Of course the more splashes he makes in FA, the more maneuvering we can do in the draft.

I'm not saying Robinson won't spend top dollar for a premier player in FA, it's just hard for me to see him doing it. I believe that he follows the Patriots type of business philosophy. He'll pay sensible money for solid players who fits our mold (i.e. Demarco Murray) and second tier-type talent to improve our depth. He'll use the big money on his own homegrown players when it's time to renew their contracts. And I'm all for that. I'm not sure if that's exactly his plan, but that's how it looks to me. If the guy is the fit we're looking for without killing the cap, then go for it.

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titans0021


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all in favor of going after someone like Berry or Jeffery as well as adding some other potential mid-level free agents.

I know this isn't what you're suggesting KT, but I've always found the idea that you either have to build through the draft or build through free agency kind of silly. The two certainly aren't mutually exclusive.

A bunch of the best teams have gone outside of the draft to add talent. New England certainly has, Atlanta was incredibly active in FA last offseason, Seattle hasn't been afraid to make moves, Miami has made a ton of FA splashes and just made the playoffs.

You can point to Pittsburgh and Green Bay, but Pittsburgh simply rarely has the cap room to attack FA and GB has only been to one SB in the last 15 years despite having a pair of HOF quarterbacks.

If Berry has interest in coming here, you go after him. I feel more confident in the top safeties in this class than I do the top receivers, so I'd probably pursue Alshon even harder. The more needs we can fill with established talent (and it's not like our defense couldn't use some young-ish, quality veterans), the more it opens up the draft for us. Not only to trade back from five, but to go BPA or move back even further at 18.

You fill safety and/or wide receiver, that makes Reuben Foster all the more attractive at 5 or 8 or 12 or wherever or first pick ends up being. We're a team that is on the cusp and can use talent anywhere we can get it. If it's in FA, great. If it's in the draft, awesome.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really feeling and hoping that we use a mix of both approaches. If a good deal comes about, we don't hesitate to do it.

Including trades.

I'd hope and think that Robinson is the kind of person that won't overpay for mediocre talent.
Also won't overdraft for it....

I read the interview with Atlanta's GM about the Juilo Jones trade. Belicheck was saying how he felt he could get the same WR in Jones in a guy later in the draft (Jonathan Baldwin). He was wrong, but it's that thinking that I think Robinson may implore some.

Yeah we could have drafted Tunsil and made him whatever, but he felt Conklin would be just as good or better in our system.

I'm looking for those examples, when trying to predict what he will do.
I don't think he will go after Jeffery. Just because he could take Mike Williams who has similar skills. I can see him going after (if available) Berry and one of the corners, simply because it's better quality there.

I doubt we chase a high level WR.
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VY


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Safety is definitely an either/or (draft or FA), so if Berry is out there and you can get him, that would be a great move. I hesitate a bit to have both your safeties (a rookie + Byard) be so inexperienced.

For WR, I'm guessing we'll go the draft route. Don't really think Jeffery will be a good fit here as every guy we have now is similar enough to him (albeit not as good).

CB I think we need to draft one high and sign a top FA. Can't get enough help there.
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