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Gus Bradley & Defensive Changes

 
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ohiogenius


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 5660
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Gus Bradley & Defensive Changes Reply with quote

Looks like the Chargers have hired Gus Bradley for the DC position.

How do you see where the current defensive players fit in as far as his scheme is concerned.

Also who would you like to get resigned, signed in FA and drafted defensively?
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BwickBrownie wrote:
cortes02 wrote:
Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9430
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote this up elsewhere, but I have a full breakdown here....but the answer is, the defense isn't really going to be all that different.

Alright so I'm going to break it down by position and who's probably going to play there, and the roles and stuff they have.

I'm going to start with the key to this defense, and its the 5T (or 4T) DE. So the interesting thing about this, is that there's two very different ways you can have this guy play, that changes the entire defense. The first, is how the Seahawks did it when Bradley was the DC there. They had a DL that had Red Bryant, a 6'4" 330lb man, playing the 4T DE spot. In that case, they have the DE start head up on the OT, and be responsible for the gaps to both sides of him. The other way takes a special kind of player to do. That way is using him as more of a 1 gap 5T DE. This is the position that the Seahawks currently use Michael Bennett in, and the 49ers adjusted their defense to fit Justin Smith for. This is how we'll use it most likely, because Bosa is that special of a player. This guy needs to be able to take on blocks from the OT/TE and make plays to either side of the OT, but really is only responsible for 1 gap (which is the C gap, or outside the tackle/inside the TE). This guy has to be extremely powerful, but also have elite movement skills and the ability to disengage and keep himself clean to make plays to that side. Ideally you want him to be able to make plays inside of the OT, but it doesn't kill you if he doesn't, because there's a LB responsible for that gap behind him. This guy also is used a lot to move around and rush the passer. Like Bennett, he'll generally kick inside and rush the passer as a 3T while a LB steps down/is brought in to rush the passer on the outside of him. This role is basically tailor made for Bosa's skillset. Many people have the idea that he's going to play the LEO, and they're wrong, for reasons I'll mention when I get to the Leo part of the breakdown.

The NT is pretty simple, but it's a little bit different than most. What they have the NT do, is play shaded to the side of the 5T, but slant so he's facing the C from the side. As most NT's do, in the run game, he's responsible for both gaps to each side of the C. The Idea behind the slant, is that he will blow back the C into the gap on the other side, basically making him responsible for only 1, bigger gap. The shading towards the 5T means that on most run plays, the double team on the NT is going to come from the OG on that side, basically giving the 5T a one on one matchup vs the OT, and some space to work.

On the other side of the NT, they generally have a DT lined up as either a 2T or a 3T DT, and this guy tends to play both roles more frequently. The idea is for him to squeeze the gap between him/the OG lined up in front of him and the NT/C, so you're taking 3 gaps, and making it 2 gaps for 2 guys to fill. The NT, and the 3T/2T basically change responsibility based on the play. At any time, either one could be the 1 gap player or the two gap player, depending on who is responsible for the gap between the C and OG, but the Ideal is that they take away the gap to defend there because of the allignment and their strength off the ball.

On the outside (on the same side as the 2/3 Tech), You have the Leo. Generally this guy is an explosive, pure speed rusher. You see it with Cliff Avril, and Ngakoue this year, and they've had success with Clemons in this position before. You really want a guy who is explosive upfield and gets around the edge. Because he's lined up so wide, and the 3T inside of him is responsible for the gap inside of the OT, he really is only there in the run game to keep contain, which means you can get a player that isn't that great vs the run, but you really want a nearly elite pass rusher for this spot. Because Bosa is such a valuable run defender, this position isn't great for him, and its why he's better off playing the 5T. He's an elite player in both aspects and it takes away from his playmaking ability for his only job to be playing contain vs the run. Attaochu fits really, really well in this role IMO, but he's gotta stay healthy, which is an issue. For that reason (and the fact that we don't really have anyone behind him), it wouldn't surprise me if we went out and drafted a guy to play with him in the earlier rounds.

Now moving to the LB group. And first up is the Sam LB role. This is the role you see/saw Bruce Irvin play in Seattle, and now in Oakland. This guy rotates between off ball LB and speed edge rusher based on the down and distance, and alignment. But for the same reason Seattle let Irvin walk, its not tough to find a guy to fit in here. The impact he has just isn't worth a guy in that $10m range. This is why I think we let Ingram walk... Ingram would be a very good fit for the position, but for the difference in salary and what we're getting from them on the field, Emmanuel is probably the better option to play there IMO. We could go after someone in the middle rounds of the draft too, there's a lot of options here, but this is generally a guy you want playing on a rookie salary, because you're going to get better use out of your money elsewhere IMO.

At the Mike (Middle) LB spot, Perryman's going to be a perfect fit. You want a guy who's aggressive coming forward and can fill holes well. You don't need anyone spectacular for this role, and I think Perryman is a good fit. Bradley had a similar player in Lofa Tatupu play this role in Seattle, and Paul Pozluzney does similar things in Jax. So this seems to be a good spot for him.

At Weakside LB, you have a pretty big array of guys who fit. Ideally, you want a guy who can run, and is rangy to chase plays down. You see a lot of different guys at this position. In Seattle, they have 6'4" 250lb KJ Wright, who's still very athletic and can chase down plays, but has the length and size to take on OL, which is where I could definitely see Josh Perry fitting in. Atlanta also uses Da'Vondre Campbell in this role, who is similar in terms of skillset to Perry. Also in ATL and Jax (the two other Seattle disciple D's), you have Dion Jones (who also plays MLB from time to time) and Telvin Smith, who are both guys that can FLY to the ball and make plays. That's exactly where Jatavis Brown and Korey Toomer (who funny enough, was drafted by Bradley in Seattle) fit in.

The secondary is where it gets tough. Lowery is probably going to play the same role he did last year if we don't bring someone else in. He split time between playing an in the box kind of role and as a deep half S. He's probably going to be shaded more towards an in the box role this year, but that's assuming we don't get someone else. Addae will be interesting to see, since he doesn't really fit either of those roles traditionally. He's not a rangy Centerfield type S, and isn't the big, enforcer type S you want at SS in this defense (Chancellor, Cyprien, and Neal play this role in Sea/Jax/Atl respectively, all 6'+ and 210+). It'll be interesting to see what we do here. There's some good options in each role in the draft, and I could see us going after Hooker in the first, because of how valuable that role is on this D (Bradley went out and spent for Gipson last year, Seattle used a top 15 pick on Earl Thomas). I would love to see what Budda Baker could do in this role though, he gets to the ball QUICK. But Bradley has the green light to essentially redo this position group when he gets here, which will be fun to see what he does.

CB is the most interesting one though, since the guys we have, are the polar opposite of that he's used in Seattle and Jax. We have small, explosive, athletic CB's rather than the long, physical athletic CB's that he has experience with. Not saying the defense can't work this way (while its not working real well for them, IMO more due to talent than scheme, the Falcons run with some smaller CB's like we have in Alford/Trufant). So it's yet to be seen how he'll transition his D to fit our CB's, since that's a group we HAVE to keep in tact and build around.

Alright, so that was way longer than I wanted it to be, but there it is....
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Highboltage55


Joined: 27 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Duffman, I am impressed with your knowledge of PC/Gus's 4-3 Under.

Some of the comments over @ BFTB are a little mind boggling... "Perryman should play the SLB", or even "Toomer should play the SLB".

Perryman seems like an ideal fit at MLB, although he is not quite as rangy or coverage based like Bobby Wagner (stud!). Tatupu and Poz are more realistic comparisons, although I am sure Myles Jack is going to supplant Poz shortly.

Perry actually does seem like a guy who can compare to KJ Wright (I didn't even think of this), this whole time I felt like Jatavis would play the WOLB-do you think their is any possibility of him converting to Strong Safety? Hypothetically if that DID happen, we could "kill" multiple birds with one stone. Imagine (and I feel this COULD be realistic) a Defense consisting of:

SSDE (LE)-Bosa
NT-Mebane
3T-Liuget
LEO-Attaouchu

SLB/OTTO-*TJ Watt (2nd Rd. Pick)
MLB-Perryman
WOLB-Perry

CB-Verrett
CB-Hayward

FS-*Malik Hooker
SS-Jatavis Brown

-Obviously in this situation Ingram leaves in Free Agency and we use an early pick for his successor, TJ Watt. Hooker seems like an ideal fit at FS (or Budda Baker), although I think Adams could also be versatile enough to play FS or SS. With the possibility of Jatavis playing SS (although I believe he will stick at Linebacker) it would make more sense to go with Hooker @ 7.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9430
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highboltage55 wrote:
Great post Duffman, I am impressed with your knowledge of PC/Gus's 4-3 Under.

Some of the comments over @ BFTB are a little mind boggling... "Perryman should play the SLB", or even "Toomer should play the SLB".

Perryman seems like an ideal fit at MLB, although he is not quite as rangy or coverage based like Bobby Wagner (stud!). Tatupu and Poz are more realistic comparisons, although I am sure Myles Jack is going to supplant Poz shortly.

Perry actually does seem like a guy who can compare to KJ Wright (I didn't even think of this), this whole time I felt like Jatavis would play the WOLB-do you think their is any possibility of him converting to Strong Safety? Hypothetically if that DID happen, we could "kill" multiple birds with one stone. Imagine (and I feel this COULD be realistic) a Defense consisting of:

SSDE (LE)-Bosa
NT-Mebane
3T-Liuget
LEO-Attaouchu

SLB/OTTO-*TJ Watt (2nd Rd. Pick)
MLB-Perryman
WOLB-Perry

CB-Verrett
CB-Hayward

FS-*Malik Hooker
SS-Jatavis Brown

-Obviously in this situation Ingram leaves in Free Agency and we use an early pick for his successor, TJ Watt. Hooker seems like an ideal fit at FS (or Budda Baker), although I think Adams could also be versatile enough to play FS or SS. With the possibility of Jatavis playing SS (although I believe he will stick at Linebacker) it would make more sense to go with Hooker @ 7.


Honestly, while it would be interesting, I doubt we pull the trigger on it. There's the whole thing that goes "you don't move a playmaker farther away from the ball". I agree with that. You ahve a guy who's shown he can be an impact LB, don't move him away for an unproven guy to take his spot. Also Perry has proven basically nothing yet. As of right now you don't do it IMO.

I think we end up signing Cyprien personally. He's a good fit in that enforcer role, and if you can get him more disciplined, you have a VERY good player. Bradley drafted him in nearly the 1st round 4 years back. You match him with the athletic LB's we have, and I'll love it, plus the potential for Hooker? That'd make a nearly elite D IMO.

I'm scared of what Jags fans are saying that Bradley refused to adjust his defense, and forced that DE spot into a 2 gap 4T role, regardless of who was there. Even with Malik Jackson (who isn't all that great as a pass rusher, but has some pass rush ability), he refused to let them do anything but 2 gap. Hopefully he'll allow Bosa to play that Michael Bennett or even Adrian Clayborne role, where its more of a 1 gap 5T than a 2 gap 4T that Quinn has mostly used, but if he doesn't I'm going to be MUCH more skeptical about this hire.

I'd also much rather use one of our first picks on an OL or something an keep Emmanuel as that Sam LB role. There's some guys later that I feel like we could get to play that role too. Guys like Tyus Bowser, Hassean Reddick and a few others could play that role pretty well.
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ohiogenius


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 5660
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well being at 7 is a great spot for what this defense needs

Someone like a Solomon Thomas, assuming he runs fast, would be a player you could put at SSDE allowing for Bosa to be the LEO

Or you could get that rangy safety in Adams or Hooker.

I can see Cyprien being a realistic FA target as Duffman suggested.
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BwickBrownie wrote:
cortes02 wrote:
Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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Neutral


Joined: 08 Mar 2013
Posts: 1932
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does the secondary look like when Bradley's defenses use 5 DB or 6 DB packages?
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chargerbuckeye


Joined: 09 Oct 2014
Posts: 1445
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highboltage55 wrote:
Great post Duffman, I am impressed with your knowledge of PC/Gus's 4-3 Under.

Some of the comments over @ BFTB are a little mind boggling... "Perryman should play the SLB", or even "Toomer should play the SLB".

Perryman seems like an ideal fit at MLB, although he is not quite as rangy or coverage based like Bobby Wagner (stud!). Tatupu and Poz are more realistic comparisons, although I am sure Myles Jack is going to supplant Poz shortly.

Perry actually does seem like a guy who can compare to KJ Wright (I didn't even think of this), this whole time I felt like Jatavis would play the WOLB-do you think their is any possibility of him converting to Strong Safety? Hypothetically if that DID happen, we could "kill" multiple birds with one stone. Imagine (and I feel this COULD be realistic) a Defense consisting of:

SSDE (LE)-Bosa
NT-Mebane
3T-Liuget
LEO-Attaouchu

SLB/OTTO-*TJ Watt (2nd Rd. Pick)
MLB-Perryman
WOLB-Perry

CB-Verrett
CB-Hayward

FS-*Malik Hooker
SS-Jatavis Brown

-Obviously in this situation Ingram leaves in Free Agency and we use an early pick for his successor, TJ Watt. Hooker seems like an ideal fit at FS (or Budda Baker), although I think Adams could also be versatile enough to play FS or SS. With the possibility of Jatavis playing SS (although I believe he will stick at Linebacker) it would make more sense to go with Hooker @ 7.


I'd Be wanking. But, I think we keep Ingram
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chargerbuckeye


Joined: 09 Oct 2014
Posts: 1445
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
Highboltage55 wrote:
Great post Duffman, I am impressed with your knowledge of PC/Gus's 4-3 Under.

Some of the comments over @ BFTB are a little mind boggling... "Perryman should play the SLB", or even "Toomer should play the SLB".

Perryman seems like an ideal fit at MLB, although he is not quite as rangy or coverage based like Bobby Wagner (stud!). Tatupu and Poz are more realistic comparisons, although I am sure Myles Jack is going to supplant Poz shortly.

Perry actually does seem like a guy who can compare to KJ Wright (I didn't even think of this), this whole time I felt like Jatavis would play the WOLB-do you think their is any possibility of him converting to Strong Safety? Hypothetically if that DID happen, we could "kill" multiple birds with one stone. Imagine (and I feel this COULD be realistic) a Defense consisting of:

SSDE (LE)-Bosa
NT-Mebane
3T-Liuget
LEO-Attaouchu

SLB/OTTO-*TJ Watt (2nd Rd. Pick)
MLB-Perryman
WOLB-Perry

CB-Verrett
CB-Hayward

FS-*Malik Hooker
SS-Jatavis Brown

-Obviously in this situation Ingram leaves in Free Agency and we use an early pick for his successor, TJ Watt. Hooker seems like an ideal fit at FS (or Budda Baker), although I think Adams could also be versatile enough to play FS or SS. With the possibility of Jatavis playing SS (although I believe he will stick at Linebacker) it would make more sense to go with Hooker @ 7.


Honestly, while it would be interesting, I doubt we pull the trigger on it. There's the whole thing that goes "you don't move a playmaker farther away from the ball". I agree with that. You ahve a guy who's shown he can be an impact LB, don't move him away for an unproven guy to take his spot. Also Perry has proven basically nothing yet. As of right now you don't do it IMO.

I think we end up signing Cyprien personally. He's a good fit in that enforcer role, and if you can get him more disciplined, you have a VERY good player. Bradley drafted him in nearly the 1st round 4 years back. You match him with the athletic LB's we have, and I'll love it, plus the potential for Hooker? That'd make a nearly elite D IMO.

I'm scared of what Jags fans are saying that Bradley refused to adjust his defense, and forced that DE spot into a 2 gap 4T role, regardless of who was there. Even with Malik Jackson (who isn't all that great as a pass rusher, but has some pass rush ability), he refused to let them do anything but 2 gap. Hopefully he'll allow Bosa to play that Michael Bennett or even Adrian Clayborne role, where its more of a 1 gap 5T than a 2 gap 4T that Quinn has mostly used, but if he doesn't I'm going to be MUCH more skeptical about this hire.

I'd also much rather use one of our first picks on an OL or something an keep Emmanuel as that Sam LB role. There's some guys later that I feel like we could get to play that role too. Guys like Tyus Bowser, Hassean Reddick and a few others could play that role pretty well.


I don't think we sign Cyprien. I think he ends up signing with the Dolphins to form a tandem with Reshad Jones
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious to see how much they adjust the roster to fit the scheme, or if they'll make him adjust the scheme to fit the roster. The move is expensive, playing in a 30k seat rented stadium kills income, and the Spanos conglomerate is cheap. I think we see one mid-level FA signing, and then they'll have to work with the roster that's there.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
I'm curious to see how much they adjust the roster to fit the scheme, or if they'll make him adjust the scheme to fit the roster. The move is expensive, playing in a 30k seat rented stadium kills income, and the Spanos conglomerate is cheap. I think we see one mid-level FA signing, and then they'll have to work with the roster that's there.


Aren't we at the point in the cba where regardless of what the numbers start out as you will pay like 95% of the cap anyway yet?
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