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The 2017 NFL Draft Thread
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
CardsNCats wrote:
This is a great class for corners so we can get someone who can play at 13 there for sure.


With Adoree Jackson declaring, this is one of the best CB classes I've seen scene since joining FF, which was 12 long years ago. That's how good these kids are.


Jackson in our defensive scheme at corner will be a train wreck.

I'm also iffy on investing another top 15 pick on a corner given Peterson is hanging around, but I'd guess thistles would be the time to do it given the quality of the class and then the corner coming off their rookie deal just as Peterson would possibly be hitting his physical decline period.

We need to think about the future of our big receiver, but again first round I'm iffy, a lot of resource already invested in that spot and early WRs and CBs tend to be some of the most volatile in terms of success by failure.

Personally I'd rather find a #2 corner in free agency. But as I said a first round corner is definitely something I'm open to.

I'm also firmly off the Foster hype train. Great player, unsure of his impact here in a defense that doesnt need great guys inside to be elite.

I'd be excites for Mahomes if we went in that direction. Just don't think we do.
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Cardsfan1121


Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally disagree on Foster. He is a playmaking ILB who we desperately need. He eeminds me a lot of patrick willis. I dont mind Kevin Minter, but Foster would be a major upgrade.

I like Mahomes tools, but he needs a lot of refining. He has a great arm, but the system he played in is concerning (air raid). If we take a QB i prefer Kizer (he needs work like all of these qbs). He is the most pro ready, however it would be ideal for him to sit behind Carson for a season. He fits what Bruce likes in QBs. Big kid, big time arm, athletic. People are gonna point to ND's record and some bad throws but i would argue the talent level on his offense was down. Kizer is an option at #13 if certain guys are off the board. Mahomes is a rd 2 or 3 option.

We could go in a number of directions at 13, and CB is near the top of the list. This is a great CB class so we could get a very good prospect in rd 2 ( T. White, K. King etc).

This is a terrible OL class (its good we dont need an OT) i hope we can develop Toner or sign a FA for RG. I dont really want to waste a pick in this OL class
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Corner free agency market is rather thin this year. Which means thank God its a strong corner draft this year.

Also count me in on the Mahomes love
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
CardsNCats wrote:
This is a great class for corners so we can get someone who can play at 13 there for sure.


With Adoree Jackson declaring, this is one of the best CB classes I've seen scene since joining FF, which was 12 long years ago. That's how good these kids are.


Jackson in our defensive scheme at corner will be a train wreck.

I'm also iffy on investing another top 15 pick on a corner given Peterson is hanging around, but I'd guess thistles would be the time to do it given the quality of the class and then the corner coming off their rookie deal just as Peterson would possibly be hitting his physical decline period.

We need to think about the future of our big receiver, but again first round I'm iffy, a lot of resource already invested in that spot and early WRs and CBs tend to be some of the most volatile in terms of success by failure.

Personally I'd rather find a #2 corner in free agency. But as I said a first round corner is definitely something I'm open to.

I'm also firmly off the Foster hype train. Great player, unsure of his impact here in a defense that doesnt need great guys inside to be elite.

I'd be excites for Mahomes if we went in that direction. Just don't think we do.


My apologies, my comment didn't read well. I'm not advocating taking Jackson (Certainly not at 13), even though I love the skillset, nor did I mean to indicate he's a usable player for this defense, I just wanted to note that his addition to this class makes it surely the most talent rich I've seen in a given year. The DB class as a whole is phenomenal.

We've got a long way from now to 4/27 but I've got to believe that a bigger, taller WR who wins at the high point is going to be in strong consideration. Our offense is basically fueled by three things and three things only (Sad as that is to admit): David Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and 50-50 balls. That's really our offense in a nutshell and it describes much of the difference between this year and last. In 2015/2016, those 50-50 balls went in our favor more often than not. In 2016/2017, they didn't. And that's about the difference. Of course Carson was a factor there, of course the offense line was a factor there but Smokey not making any of those plays and the ridiculous regression of Michael Floyd were in large the determining factors in those 50-50 coin flips going against us as opposed to for us this season. We need a guy who can try and flip that coin back to where we want it. A guy like Mike Williams simply has to be in consideration if he's still around at 13.
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Corey Davis out of Western Michigan as another receiver who could be in play at 13
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Cardsfan1121


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like both Williams and Davis. I agree with Champ, we need a bigger WR not a speedster. We all know BA loves small fast wide receivers, but we need Fitz future replacement and i would be comfortable with either of these guys.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cardsfan1121 wrote:
I like both Williams and Davis. I agree with Champ, we need a bigger WR not a speedster. We all know BA loves small fast wide receivers, but we need Fitz future replacement and i would be comfortable with either of these guys.


We don't NECESSARILY need a big guy there but as a general rule, if you want win at the catch point, you're usually looking at someone 6'3" and above with a high level vertical. So yes, that's kinda who I'm locking in on right now.
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CardsNCats


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am falling in love with Marshon Lattimore. If Teez goes before us he is the corner I want the most.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cardsfan1121 wrote:
I totally disagree on Foster. He is a playmaking ILB who we desperately need. He eeminds me a lot of patrick willis. I dont mind Kevin Minter, but Foster would be a major upgrade


No doubt Foster is a massive upgrade player for player. It's just not a spot in this defense that is that important. We can upgrade easily. Spending a top 15 pick on upgrading that spot isn't smart team building to me.

Quote:
I like Mahomes tools, but he needs a lot of refining. He has a great arm, but the system he played in is concerning (air raid). If we take a QB i prefer Kizer (he needs work like all of these qbs). He is the most pro ready, however it would be ideal for him to sit behind Carson for a season. He fits what Bruce likes in QBs. Big kid, big time arm, athletic. People are gonna point to ND's record and some bad throws but i would argue the talent level on his offense was down. Kizer is an option at #13 if certain guys are off the board. Mahomes is a rd 2 or 3 option.


I'd say we will have Kizer higher on our team board than Mahomes. I just prefer Pat.

Namely because he is a guy who has consistently reacted well to pressure, both inside and outside the pocket, and has shown the ability to buy tome and create plays.

Kizer worries me in that his mechanics fall apart when he has to go off script. His feet don't sync back in with his arm and you get a lot of ugly balls.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I delve into QBs any further, I need to know if we're even considering someone that high at the position. With our short term window/outlook and BA's general "right now" mentality, I find it to be a long shot that we will. Should we? ABSOLUTELY. Will we? I'm not convinced.
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Cardsfan1121


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats where keim comes in Champ. We have to have a long term plan with every draft. I like Kizer but i would only want him at 13 if certain players are gone. I wouldnt mind Mahomes at 45 but he could really rise during the draft process because he has all the tools.

A lot depends on FA but we need to come out of this draft with a CB, WR, ILB, QB, and possibly S
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cardsfan1121 wrote:
Thats where keim comes in Champ. We have to have a long term plan with every draft. I like Kizer but i would only want him at 13 if certain players are gone. I wouldnt mind Mahomes at 45 but he could really rise during the draft process because he has all the tools.

A lot depends on FA but we need to come out of this draft with a CB, WR, ILB, QB, and possibly S


Not sure of your point. Not only has Steve Keim not shown any real incentive to invest the position on draft day, he's made it very clear that Carson is both the interim and 3 year window guy. Add to this that BA has shown time and time again that he won't play a guy if he doesn't feel like it (Too many examples to note) and you've got a situation that's going to be driven by our HC, which on the face of it isn't a terrible thing. The problem we face is that our window is short and our youth pipeline is short. We need a QB. Doesn't mean we'll take one at 13.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The next part of this is roster configuration. Steve Keim and Bruce Arians both have stated publicly that they don't adhere to the idea of carrying 3 active QBs. If we draft a QB, he has to be good enough and liked enough for BA to feel comfortable with cutting Drew Stanton, a personal favorite of his.

That means this decision will largely be dictated by our HC.
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