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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also not sure where you got that Justis said that Fowler was an exception. I've talked to Justis quite a bit even before he ever came out with the FP formula. And his stance has ALWAYS been that Fowler is not a pass rusher.

He said that Fowler was one of his favorite nFP, but never that he would be a successful pass rusher. He argued that Fowler could be successful if you didn't expect a pass rush from him, even stating that he might be best if he bulked up and played inside like Muschamp had him doing early on. He had him ranked 6th out of the pass rushers that year.

https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/811385435876257792
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/724334469667131393
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/707300643610857472
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/649134277506940929
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/594681662757154816

His stance was always that Fowler can be a good player, but that he won't be a sack artist.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Also not sure where you got that Justis said that Fowler was an exception. I've talked to Justis quite a bit even before he ever came out with the FP formula. And his stance has ALWAYS been that Fowler is not a pass rusher.

He said that Fowler was one of his favorite nFP, but never that he would be a successful pass rusher. He argued that Fowler could be successful if you didn't expect a pass rush from him, even stating that he might be best if he bulked up and played inside like Muschamp had him doing early on. He had him ranked 6th out of the pass rushers that year.

https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/811385435876257792
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/724334469667131393
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/707300643610857472
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/649134277506940929
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/594681662757154816

His stance was always that Fowler can be a good player, but that he won't be a sack artist.


Yeah, I can see that. I think Fowler can become a solid guy in that department, but not as a 4-3 hand in the ground DE. If you put him at LB and move him around I think that's how he would accumulate his sack production. He won't ever be on Beasley's level, Fowler just got the love I feel like because he can really be disruptive in multiple parts of the game. Beasley was the work in progress in everything but pass rushing (which is what we wanted out of the draft, so I can't say I totally get it from Caldwell's perspective if that is how he decided on Fowler), but as a total player, I think Fowler can be pretty damn good.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Also not sure where you got that Justis said that Fowler was an exception. I've talked to Justis quite a bit even before he ever came out with the FP formula. And his stance has ALWAYS been that Fowler is not a pass rusher.

He said that Fowler was one of his favorite nFP, but never that he would be a successful pass rusher. He argued that Fowler could be successful if you didn't expect a pass rush from him, even stating that he might be best if he bulked up and played inside like Muschamp had him doing early on. He had him ranked 6th out of the pass rushers that year.

https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/811385435876257792
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/724334469667131393
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/707300643610857472
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/649134277506940929
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/594681662757154816

His stance was always that Fowler can be a good player, but that he won't be a sack artist.


Yeah, I can see that. I think Fowler can become a solid guy in that department, but not as a 4-3 hand in the ground DE. If you put him at LB and move him around I think that's how he would accumulate his sack production. He won't ever be on Beasley's level, Fowler just got the love I feel like because he can really be disruptive in multiple parts of the game. Beasley was the work in progress in everything but pass rushing (which is what we wanted out of the draft, so I can't say I totally get it from Caldwell's perspective if that is how he decided on Fowler), but as a total player, I think Fowler can be pretty damn good.
I've been harsh on Fowler, but I kinda agree. I don't think he's going to accumulate sacks or be overly disruptive, so that's the differentiating of opinion there. But he can be a good player. My contention is just that if you're taking a guy #3 overall, he needs to be able to generate pressure and be the game breaker that Beasley is, and I don't see that in Fowler. Can he be a Bruce Irvin type? Sure that's possible. But I just don't think that's the type of thing you want at #3.

And if he's gonna be best standing up, I just don't know how you get him in that role for even 50% of defensive snaps if you make him the SLB. Because I can't really see a way you'd want him on the field at LB over Telvin in nickel formations.

That's really my contention with him. We needed an every down pass rusher, the data said that Beasley was that guy, and we drafted a jack of all trades, master of none guy instead.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Also not sure where you got that Justis said that Fowler was an exception. I've talked to Justis quite a bit even before he ever came out with the FP formula. And his stance has ALWAYS been that Fowler is not a pass rusher.

He said that Fowler was one of his favorite nFP, but never that he would be a successful pass rusher. He argued that Fowler could be successful if you didn't expect a pass rush from him, even stating that he might be best if he bulked up and played inside like Muschamp had him doing early on. He had him ranked 6th out of the pass rushers that year.

https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/811385435876257792
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/724334469667131393
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/707300643610857472
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/649134277506940929
https://twitter.com/jumosq/status/594681662757154816

His stance was always that Fowler can be a good player, but that he won't be a sack artist.


Yeah, I can see that. I think Fowler can become a solid guy in that department, but not as a 4-3 hand in the ground DE. If you put him at LB and move him around I think that's how he would accumulate his sack production. He won't ever be on Beasley's level, Fowler just got the love I feel like because he can really be disruptive in multiple parts of the game. Beasley was the work in progress in everything but pass rushing (which is what we wanted out of the draft, so I can't say I totally get it from Caldwell's perspective if that is how he decided on Fowler), but as a total player, I think Fowler can be pretty damn good.
I've been harsh on Fowler, but I kinda agree. I don't think he's going to accumulate sacks or be overly disruptive, so that's the differentiating of opinion there. But he can be a good player. My contention is just that if you're taking a guy #3 overall, he needs to be able to generate pressure and be the game breaker that Beasley is, and I don't see that in Fowler. Can he be a Bruce Irvin type? Sure that's possible. But I just don't think that's the type of thing you want at #3.

And if he's gonna be best standing up, I just don't know how you get him in that role for even 50% of defensive snaps if you make him the SLB. Because I can't really see a way you'd want him on the field at LB over Telvin in nickel formations.

That's really my contention with him. We needed an every down pass rusher, the data said that Beasley was that guy, and we drafted a jack of all trades, master of none guy instead.


Definitely going to be interesting how we use him. I am fairly sure Wash is going to go to a traditional 4-3 scheme if he ends up our DC, and Fowler like I said with his hand on the ground I don't see making a large impact when it comes to pass rushing.

Poz played pretty well this year so I expect him to keep staying on til he falls off, and with Jack here I expect him to likely stick at the SLB (no way we continue trotting Skuta out there with Gus and that OTTO [inappropriate/removed] gone) because he does need to be on the field.

So yeah, not really sure how it'll all work out yet until we hear what defense Wash runs as well as where they plan to stick him. I am happy that he is going to work with Von Miller and co. over the offseason to improve some things but ultimately it's not very likely he ends up being what they likely had in mind for him.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So even with a #4 pick we have like 15 guys we want and no one can come close to agreeing Laughing
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So even with a #4 pick we have like 15 guys we want and no one can come close to agreeing Laughing
Seems like it's largely between best pass rusher available and Cook. Not much else I'm seeing.
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KhanYouDigIt


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if I'm late, don't consider myself a Draft junky but Solomon Thomas is gonna be in the discussion for the 4th pick come April, isn't he? That boy can play.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KhanYouDigIt wrote:
Sorry if I'm late, don't consider myself a Draft junky but Solomon Thomas is gonna be in the discussion for the 4th pick come April, isn't he? That boy can play.


At this point in time, seems a little high for him.

Tim Williams, Derek Barnett, Jamal Adams, Leonard Fournette, Dalvin Cook, Jonathan Allen, Myles Garrett, and probably a couple other names will be linked here in next few months imo.

I think it'll be one of the RB's or Allen/TWill/Barnett/Adams. Still a lot of options, but this draft has some serious talent at the top.
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AngryPirate


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With coughlin having a say now I could see us going wr with Mike williams.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So even with a #4 pick we have like 15 guys we want and no one can come close to agreeing Laughing
Seems like it's largely between best pass rusher available and Cook. Not much else I'm seeing.


Thought i saw some of Peppers and the Bama safety but could be wrong
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mijags


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malik Hooker or Jonathan Allen should be the pick @#4
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
So even with a #4 pick we have like 15 guys we want and no one can come close to agreeing Laughing
Seems like it's largely between best pass rusher available and Cook. Not much else I'm seeing.


Thought i saw some of Peppers and the Bama safety but could be wrong
I mentioned Peppers as a "LOL Jaguars" pick. Don't think anyone seriously wants him at 4.
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ohiogenius


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Jonathan Allen was there at 4 do you guys think the Jags would take him?

Or is he too similar to Malik Jackson?

Or is DT not a need?
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Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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FreeDaJags


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Allen is there we should take him. He is the best player in the draft, you find somewhere to play him.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeDaJags wrote:
If Allen is there we should take him. He is the best player in the draft, you find somewhere to play him.


This.

Truthfully I think he can play all across the line.
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