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Draft Grade for 2016 Class
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bone_Collector wrote:
Reviewing our rookie class is definitely thread worthy. I don't know why everyone has to jump on DC.


You mean EA21 ?
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Mr Raider


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drafts like the ones with Carr and Mack or a receiver with top 5 potential in back to back years are rare and they lay the ground work for a rebuilding franchise to become competitive and witj that comes different expectations of your drafts because of the lower picks.

With that said we landed a safety that showed he has the ability to be a long the herm starter and I don't think it's crazy to think that KJ can make a few pro bowls. There's an argument to be made that he was our second or third most consistent defensive player all year, as a rookie DB that's impressive even on a poor defense. Hope the little nagging injuries don't continue though. I think it's fair to wonder why he wasn't starting week one if he was healthy.

Ward seemed like an odd pick, but I get it from the standpoint that they likely expected MEJ to play most of the year. We could have eased him in and rotated him at multiple positions on the DL. But as we know injuries happened and he was forced to be a starter. Didn't make many splash plays and was out of position a fair amount. He still has some potential obviously but he's not going to be a dominant player. He could be valuable though as a guy that can play multiple spots. Not writing him off yet, but need to see him take a step next season.

Calhoun had the injuries and bounced between LB and end, while playing behind Mack and Irvin. Again I think the idea was to get him some experience and hopefully have him behind Mack, Bruce and Aldon once he came back but that never happened and instead of getting some experience but not having to be relied on all season he was thrown in the deep end early. He was one of my favorite picks but he clearly was taking time to adjust. Again not writing him off after a season but I hope the staff got a good idea of strong suits and areas he needs to improve on and adjust accordingly. A year in the system and hopefully being able to rotate in with 3 other high level pass rushers next season could lead to a big jump.

Cook it was easy to see the reasoning and regardless of how he played the inuries to DC and McGloin showed why it was a good investment. He likely won't be a starter in the league though that might not be fair to say, I think he has a lot of value as a long term backup and as we saw this year that's an important piece to have. An offseason working in the offense should help.

Washington was a great pick. Running backs can be found all throughout the draft, but you still have to be happy when you find a back that can average 5+ a pop, can run inside, outside, catch the ball out of the backfield, and play special teams. I do think he can be a starter, he's thick even though he's short and he can run on the interior but his best role might be the COP like this year. He's a perfect fit in an offense that fits our franchise QB of high tempo, passing, spreading the defense out and running out of the shotgun. Looking forward to seeing him next season.

James showed some really good things while also showing he wasn't ready to be a starter and may never be, but as a 6th round pick that shouldn't be what's expected. If he develops into that great, but even if he's depth and a project that contributes on special teams thats a win for us.

Alexander legitimately looks like a potential long term starting RT, possibly even guard if we were to lose Gabe in a year. That's an A in the 7th round. He struggles with speed and twitchy guys but a lot of RT have that problem. At the very least he's valuable depth at T/G.

Where this draft really shines is the undrafted guys. Richard is just a great story and it's mind blowing that this guy not only wasn't drafted but also was a product of a tryout. He was phenomenal all season. Running, receiving, blocking, punt and kick returns, etc. He's small but he runs HARD, is tough to bring down, and if you give him an inch he produces big plays. Hes a long term fixture, even if he isn't a starter he's got Sproles type of potential as a do it all type that can take over a game in multiple areas. Already one of my favorites on the team.

After him you got guys like Latham, Kirkland, Cowher that all showed at the very least they can produce in some type of role. For a 12 win team having that many guys that can contribute as undrafted guys is a testament to the scouting department and GM.

Again the draft wasn't a home run full of franchise cornerstones but overall we got at least one starter with pro bowl potential, two RB that produced a lot of big plays and could be starters potentially, a potential long term starter at RT, a backup QB and two guys on defense that need more time and leave something to be desired but still have potential, and a bunch of other depth/role players that who knows just how good they can be. That's an above average draft IMO. And after the drafts we've had might not be perfect but it's the type of drafts that keep you competitive for a long time. But it's still only been a year, guys progress and regress, we'll know exactly what we have from all these guys in 2 or 3 more years. A lot of things to be encouraged about though, plus a few to have some concerns about.
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DC4_Life


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Raider wrote:
Drafts like the ones with Carr and Mack or a receiver with top 5 potential in back to back years are rare and they lay the ground work for a rebuilding franchise to become competitive and witj that comes different expectations of your drafts because of the lower picks.

With that said we landed a safety that showed he has the ability to be a long the herm starter and I don't think it's crazy to think that KJ can make a few pro bowls. There's an argument to be made that he was our second or third most consistent defensive player all year, as a rookie DB that's impressive even on a poor defense. Hope the little nagging injuries don't continue though. I think it's fair to wonder why he wasn't starting week one if he was healthy.

Ward seemed like an odd pick, but I get it from the standpoint that they likely expected MEJ to play most of the year. We could have eased him in and rotated him at multiple positions on the DL. But as we know injuries happened and he was forced to be a starter. Didn't make many splash plays and was out of position a fair amount. He still has some potential obviously but he's not going to be a dominant player. He could be valuable though as a guy that can play multiple spots. Not writing him off yet, but need to see him take a step next season.

Calhoun had the injuries and bounced between LB and end, while playing behind Mack and Irvin. Again I think the idea was to get him some experience and hopefully have him behind Mack, Bruce and Aldon once he came back but that never happened and instead of getting some experience but not having to be relied on all season he was thrown in the deep end early. He was one of my favorite picks but he clearly was taking time to adjust. Again not writing him off after a season but I hope the staff got a good idea of strong suits and areas he needs to improve on and adjust accordingly. A year in the system and hopefully being able to rotate in with 3 other high level pass rushers next season could lead to a big jump.

Cook it was easy to see the reasoning and regardless of how he played the inuries to DC and McGloin showed why it was a good investment. He likely won't be a starter in the league though that might not be fair to say, I think he has a lot of value as a long term backup and as we saw this year that's an important piece to have. An offseason working in the offense should help.

Washington was a great pick. Running backs can be found all throughout the draft, but you still have to be happy when you find a back that can average 5+ a pop, can run inside, outside, catch the ball out of the backfield, and play special teams. I do think he can be a starter, he's thick even though he's short and he can run on the interior but his best role might be the COP like this year. He's a perfect fit in an offense that fits our franchise QB of high tempo, passing, spreading the defense out and running out of the shotgun. Looking forward to seeing him next season.

James showed some really good things while also showing he wasn't ready to be a starter and may never be, but as a 6th round pick that shouldn't be what's expected. If he develops into that great, but even if he's depth and a project that contributes on special teams thats a win for us.

Alexander legitimately looks like a potential long term starting RT, possibly even guard if we were to lose Gabe in a year. That's an A in the 7th round. He struggles with speed and twitchy guys but a lot of RT have that problem. At the very least he's valuable depth at T/G.

Where this draft really shines is the undrafted guys. Richard is just a great story and it's mind blowing that this guy not only wasn't drafted but also was a product of a tryout. He was phenomenal all season. Running, receiving, blocking, punt and kick returns, etc. He's small but he runs HARD, is tough to bring down, and if you give him an inch he produces big plays. Hes a long term fixture, even if he isn't a starter he's got Sproles type of potential as a do it all type that can take over a game in multiple areas. Already one of my favorites on the team.

After him you got guys like Latham, Kirkland, Cowher that all showed at the very least they can produce in some type of role. For a 12 win team having that many guys that can contribute as undrafted guys is a testament to the scouting department and GM.

Again the draft wasn't a home run full of franchise cornerstones but overall we got at least one starter with pro bowl potential, two RB that produced a lot of big plays and could be starters potentially, a potential long term starter at RT, a backup QB and two guys on defense that need more time and leave something to be desired but still have potential, and a bunch of other depth/role players that who knows just how good they can be. That's an above average draft IMO. And after the drafts we've had might not be perfect but it's the type of drafts that keep you competitive for a long time. But it's still only been a year, guys progress and regress, we'll know exactly what we have from all these guys in 2 or 3 more years. A lot of things to be encouraged about though, plus a few to have some concerns about.
+1 I agree with most of this. If Reggie hits on 2nd or 3rd with a stud this class looks alot better but it happens. Our defense really needed those guys to be factors. As you said, players could develop.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Raider wrote:
Drafts like the ones with Carr and Mack or a receiver with top 5 potential in back to back years are rare and they lay the ground work for a rebuilding franchise to become competitive and witj that comes different expectations of your drafts because of the lower picks.

With that said we landed a safety that showed he has the ability to be a long the herm starter and I don't think it's crazy to think that KJ can make a few pro bowls. There's an argument to be made that he was our second or third most consistent defensive player all year, as a rookie DB that's impressive even on a poor defense. Hope the little nagging injuries don't continue though. I think it's fair to wonder why he wasn't starting week one if he was healthy.

Ward seemed like an odd pick, but I get it from the standpoint that they likely expected MEJ to play most of the year. We could have eased him in and rotated him at multiple positions on the DL. But as we know injuries happened and he was forced to be a starter. Didn't make many splash plays and was out of position a fair amount. He still has some potential obviously but he's not going to be a dominant player. He could be valuable though as a guy that can play multiple spots. Not writing him off yet, but need to see him take a step next season.

Calhoun had the injuries and bounced between LB and end, while playing behind Mack and Irvin. Again I think the idea was to get him some experience and hopefully have him behind Mack, Bruce and Aldon once he came back but that never happened and instead of getting some experience but not having to be relied on all season he was thrown in the deep end early. He was one of my favorite picks but he clearly was taking time to adjust. Again not writing him off after a season but I hope the staff got a good idea of strong suits and areas he needs to improve on and adjust accordingly. A year in the system and hopefully being able to rotate in with 3 other high level pass rushers next season could lead to a big jump.

Cook it was easy to see the reasoning and regardless of how he played the inuries to DC and McGloin showed why it was a good investment. He likely won't be a starter in the league though that might not be fair to say, I think he has a lot of value as a long term backup and as we saw this year that's an important piece to have. An offseason working in the offense should help.

Washington was a great pick. Running backs can be found all throughout the draft, but you still have to be happy when you find a back that can average 5+ a pop, can run inside, outside, catch the ball out of the backfield, and play special teams. I do think he can be a starter, he's thick even though he's short and he can run on the interior but his best role might be the COP like this year. He's a perfect fit in an offense that fits our franchise QB of high tempo, passing, spreading the defense out and running out of the shotgun. Looking forward to seeing him next season.

James showed some really good things while also showing he wasn't ready to be a starter and may never be, but as a 6th round pick that shouldn't be what's expected. If he develops into that great, but even if he's depth and a project that contributes on special teams thats a win for us.

Alexander legitimately looks like a potential long term starting RT, possibly even guard if we were to lose Gabe in a year. That's an A in the 7th round. He struggles with speed and twitchy guys but a lot of RT have that problem. At the very least he's valuable depth at T/G.

Where this draft really shines is the undrafted guys. Richard is just a great story and it's mind blowing that this guy not only wasn't drafted but also was a product of a tryout. He was phenomenal all season. Running, receiving, blocking, punt and kick returns, etc. He's small but he runs HARD, is tough to bring down, and if you give him an inch he produces big plays. Hes a long term fixture, even if he isn't a starter he's got Sproles type of potential as a do it all type that can take over a game in multiple areas. Already one of my favorites on the team.

After him you got guys like Latham, Kirkland, Cowher that all showed at the very least they can produce in some type of role. For a 12 win team having that many guys that can contribute as undrafted guys is a testament to the scouting department and GM.

Again the draft wasn't a home run full of franchise cornerstones but overall we got at least one starter with pro bowl potential, two RB that produced a lot of big plays and could be starters potentially, a potential long term starter at RT, a backup QB and two guys on defense that need more time and leave something to be desired but still have potential, and a bunch of other depth/role players that who knows just how good they can be. That's an above average draft IMO. And after the drafts we've had might not be perfect but it's the type of drafts that keep you competitive for a long time. But it's still only been a year, guys progress and regress, we'll know exactly what we have from all these guys in 2 or 3 more years. A lot of things to be encouraged about though, plus a few to have some concerns about.


Good post, though I respectfully disagree with the Cook pick, I think it was a waste of a 4th and 5th for a player we sincerely hope never to see again (I mean that in a good way as in Carr is healthy Smile )

As for the OP, I think it's a decent thread that deserves its place - it's always interesting to hear projections and thoughts on rookies - it is football's future after all!
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Heart of Oak


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.
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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward, who I always thought reminded me of Malik Jackson, actually had a better/similar rookie year than Jackson did. Hopefully he develops into even half the player he is. Definitely not giving up on him yet.

I mean most wrote off McGee and he developed in a fine player. Way, way to early to write these guys off yet, though I understand the impatience and disappointment with his performance as a second round pick. He's just extremely raw
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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully Calhoun develops on a similar trajectory as Dee Ford did. Really liked him coming out of college, it's hard to get into a rhythm when you're just spelling guys like Mack and Irvin for a few plays a game
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Rich7sena


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Ward, who I always thought reminded me of Malik Jackson, actually had a better/similar rookie year than Jackson did. Hopefully he develops into even half the player he is. Definitely not giving up on him yet.

I mean most wrote off McGee and he developed in a fine player. Way, way to early to write these guys off yet, though I understand the impatience and disappointment with his performance as a second round pick. He's just extremely raw

This is the "positivity" conclusion I came up with after comparing their measurables (nearly identical), but there's very little in Ward's game in college which suggested he'd be as good as Malik. Dude loved getting pushed back in the run game in college and that's exactly what happened to him as a rookie.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heart of Oak wrote:
Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.


Agree with the crux of your point, however, and I said this in the draft thread - if the guy takes three years to develop into a starter then in my book he's not a good value 2nd round pick unless he puts up a number of Pro Bowl type seasons thereafter (especially for a team that is rebuilding and will need contribution for him imminently) and should have been drafted quite a bit lower - I guess for me, I'm grading the player and the value of the pick combined.

Now, if you think from what you've seen he has All Pro potential then I guess it's worth the wait, but for me, I just don't see him as being any more than a starter who flashes now and then. A see a little Tommy Kelly in him for some reason and he was an UDFA for a reason. If Ward plays out of his skin in future and is a key cog of the D then I guess I'll have been wrong and will be glad to have been proven so Smile
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Heart of Oak


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.


Agree with the crux of your point, however, and I said this in the draft thread - if the guy takes three years to develop into a starter then in my book he's not a good value 2nd round pick unless he puts up a number of Pro Bowl type seasons thereafter (especially for a team that is rebuilding and will need contribution for him imminently) and should have been drafted quite a bit lower - I guess for me, I'm grading the player and the value of the pick combined.

Now, if you think from what you've seen he has All Pro potential then I guess it's worth the wait, but for me, I just don't see him as being any more than a starter who flashes now and then. A see a little Tommy Kelly in him for some reason and he was an UDFA for a reason. If Ward plays out of his skin in future and is a key cog of the D then I guess I'll have been wrong and will be glad to have been proven so Smile


I absolutely agree and for what it is worth I was not a fan of the Ward pick. My approach, in terms of my expectations, to the draft would be something like (by round):

1 - Star player
2 - Really good starter day 1
3 - Good Starter day 1
4 - Role player / border line starter (middle of first season or second season)
5 onwards - start to address glaring needs or gamble on measurables

and by that logic Ward is a 4th / 5th round pick. The biggest issue I had with the pick was that Derrick Henry was sitting there and was taken the very next pick (could easily let Murray go this off-season and had a starter on a rookie contract). Other guys I liked on the board at the time were Jason Spriggs (OT), Su'a Cravens (LB), Tyler Boyd (WR), Vonn Bell (S) and even Darian Thompson (S) who went in the 3rd round.
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DC4_Life


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heart of Oak wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.


Agree with the crux of your point, however, and I said this in the draft thread - if the guy takes three years to develop into a starter then in my book he's not a good value 2nd round pick unless he puts up a number of Pro Bowl type seasons thereafter (especially for a team that is rebuilding and will need contribution for him imminently) and should have been drafted quite a bit lower - I guess for me, I'm grading the player and the value of the pick combined.

Now, if you think from what you've seen he has All Pro potential then I guess it's worth the wait, but for me, I just don't see him as being any more than a starter who flashes now and then. A see a little Tommy Kelly in him for some reason and he was an UDFA for a reason. If Ward plays out of his skin in future and is a key cog of the D then I guess I'll have been wrong and will be glad to have been proven so Smile


I absolutely agree and for what it is worth I was not a fan of the Ward pick. My approach, in terms of my expectations, to the draft would be something like (by round):

1 - Star player
2 - Really good starter day 1
3 - Good Starter day 1
4 - Role player / border line starter (middle of first season or second season)
5 onwards - start to address glaring needs or gamble on measurables

and by that logic Ward is a 4th / 5th round pick. The biggest issue I had with the pick was that Derrick Henry was sitting there and was taken the very next pick (could easily let Murray go this off-season and had a starter on a rookie contract). Other guys I liked on the board at the time were Jason Spriggs (OT), Su'a Cravens (LB), Tyler Boyd (WR), Vonn Bell (S) and even Darian Thompson (S) who went in the 3rd round.
I still remember really wanting Cravens and Henry... hindsight is 20/20.. in the 3rd who else was there
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SBXISBXVSBXVIII


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DC4_Life wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.


Agree with the crux of your point, however, and I said this in the draft thread - if the guy takes three years to develop into a starter then in my book he's not a good value 2nd round pick unless he puts up a number of Pro Bowl type seasons thereafter (especially for a team that is rebuilding and will need contribution for him imminently) and should have been drafted quite a bit lower - I guess for me, I'm grading the player and the value of the pick combined.

Now, if you think from what you've seen he has All Pro potential then I guess it's worth the wait, but for me, I just don't see him as being any more than a starter who flashes now and then. A see a little Tommy Kelly in him for some reason and he was an UDFA for a reason. If Ward plays out of his skin in future and is a key cog of the D then I guess I'll have been wrong and will be glad to have been proven so Smile


I absolutely agree and for what it is worth I was not a fan of the Ward pick. My approach, in terms of my expectations, to the draft would be something like (by round):

1 - Star player
2 - Really good starter day 1
3 - Good Starter day 1
4 - Role player / border line starter (middle of first season or second season)
5 onwards - start to address glaring needs or gamble on measurables

and by that logic Ward is a 4th / 5th round pick. The biggest issue I had with the pick was that Derrick Henry was sitting there and was taken the very next pick (could easily let Murray go this off-season and had a starter on a rookie contract). Other guys I liked on the board at the time were Jason Spriggs (OT), Su'a Cravens (LB), Tyler Boyd (WR), Vonn Bell (S) and even Darian Thompson (S) who went in the 3rd round.
I still remember really wanting Cravens and Henry... hindsight is 20/20.. in the 3rd who else was there

Anyone who wasn't drafted in the 1st or 2nd round
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DC4_Life


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote:
DC4_Life wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.


Agree with the crux of your point, however, and I said this in the draft thread - if the guy takes three years to develop into a starter then in my book he's not a good value 2nd round pick unless he puts up a number of Pro Bowl type seasons thereafter (especially for a team that is rebuilding and will need contribution for him imminently) and should have been drafted quite a bit lower - I guess for me, I'm grading the player and the value of the pick combined.

Now, if you think from what you've seen he has All Pro potential then I guess it's worth the wait, but for me, I just don't see him as being any more than a starter who flashes now and then. A see a little Tommy Kelly in him for some reason and he was an UDFA for a reason. If Ward plays out of his skin in future and is a key cog of the D then I guess I'll have been wrong and will be glad to have been proven so Smile


I absolutely agree and for what it is worth I was not a fan of the Ward pick. My approach, in terms of my expectations, to the draft would be something like (by round):

1 - Star player
2 - Really good starter day 1
3 - Good Starter day 1
4 - Role player / border line starter (middle of first season or second season)
5 onwards - start to address glaring needs or gamble on measurables

and by that logic Ward is a 4th / 5th round pick. The biggest issue I had with the pick was that Derrick Henry was sitting there and was taken the very next pick (could easily let Murray go this off-season and had a starter on a rookie contract). Other guys I liked on the board at the time were Jason Spriggs (OT), Su'a Cravens (LB), Tyler Boyd (WR), Vonn Bell (S) and even Darian Thompson (S) who went in the 3rd round.
I still remember really wanting Cravens and Henry... hindsight is 20/20.. in the 3rd who else was there

Anyone who wasn't drafted in the 1st or 2nd round
thanks Einstein
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 4261
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think as teams get better you have to adjust your expectations on draft picks. The team will be picking lower so really you getting a 2nd round player more than a 1st and a 3rd more than a 2nd. Unless the team trades up they won't be getting Mack/Cooper level players. When you get good you need depth and developmental players more than impact guys who dropped due to injuries or off the field issues.

Every draft class is also different as well take DJ Hayden's class for example, there weren't too many star players in it. Now look at the 2014 class the next year tons of good players spread out through the draft.

Now honestly I give the '16 draft a bit of a pass due to the team picking lower and the class not having as much depth. I think the team took Jihad Ward and Calhoun as developmental players because they expected MEJ to play more than 2 games in the season and having a good rotation on the DL. The team took Cook to have a guy with a first round talent sit and develop behind Carr/McGloin but once again injuries stuck. Washington was suppose to be the scat back who could be used on the perimeter, but then Richard came out of literally nowhere and played better. Honestly if you look at the '16 draft none of the guys where supposed to be starters even Joesph wasn't projected to start which is why the team signed Nelson and Allen.

Now due to the developmental nature of the '16 I personally feel that we as fans need to wait a season or two before really giving it a grade because the players could all get significantly better.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 7898
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heart of Oak wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
Definitely worth a thread. When I said it was too early to grade I was not knocking the value of discussing it - just saying that it is honestly too early to know with some of the players.

Take Jihad Ward as an example. If we judge him as a 2nd round pick and the impact he has had on the field in year 1 then the grade would be an F or something akin to that, but equally, he was drafted as 'being a bit raw' and 'needing some work' - none of which has really changed so the grade can only be reliably assessed after 2-3 years.

Even Jadeveon Clowney was a bit lacklustre his first two years with a total of 4.5 sacks and he was a #1 overall pick expected to just plug and play - but this season he has cemented himself as the special player that he was drafted to be. Not that I am saying Ward will be Clowney by any stretch of the imagination.


Agree with the crux of your point, however, and I said this in the draft thread - if the guy takes three years to develop into a starter then in my book he's not a good value 2nd round pick unless he puts up a number of Pro Bowl type seasons thereafter (especially for a team that is rebuilding and will need contribution for him imminently) and should have been drafted quite a bit lower - I guess for me, I'm grading the player and the value of the pick combined.

Now, if you think from what you've seen he has All Pro potential then I guess it's worth the wait, but for me, I just don't see him as being any more than a starter who flashes now and then. A see a little Tommy Kelly in him for some reason and he was an UDFA for a reason. If Ward plays out of his skin in future and is a key cog of the D then I guess I'll have been wrong and will be glad to have been proven so Smile


I absolutely agree and for what it is worth I was not a fan of the Ward pick. My approach, in terms of my expectations, to the draft would be something like (by round):

1 - Star player
2 - Really good starter day 1
3 - Good Starter day 1
4 - Role player / border line starter (middle of first season or second season)
5 onwards - start to address glaring needs or gamble on measurables

and by that logic Ward is a 4th / 5th round pick. The biggest issue I had with the pick was that Derrick Henry was sitting there and was taken the very next pick (could easily let Murray go this off-season and had a starter on a rookie contract). Other guys I liked on the board at the time were Jason Spriggs (OT), Su'a Cravens (LB), Tyler Boyd (WR), Vonn Bell (S) and even Darian Thompson (S) who went in the 3rd round.


You're asking for too much. Nobody hits on that many picks a draft. Nobody.
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El ramster wrote:
bertuzzi wrote:
Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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