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Who Should Be Our Next Head Coach?
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Whose Your Choice for the Broncos Next Head Coach?
Vance Joseph
22%
 22%  [ 8 ]
Kyle Shanahan
42%
 42%  [ 15 ]
Dave Toub
34%
 34%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 35

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bobdevine


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 3025
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One story that I'd like to see is the connection from the Broncos to Adam Gase for the hiring of Vance Joseph. Was there a "back door" channel from Elway to Gase? What I've heard so far is that Gase praised Joseph for keeping the team together in spite of injuries. Was there more?
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both Denver and Rams fans seem pretty sure about getting Philips as DC.
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broncofan48


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
Both Denver and Rams fans seem pretty sure about getting Philips as DC.


Aren't the Rams better set up to be a 4-3?
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
This is Josh McDaniels all over again.


The reason the mac hire failed is because we were coming off a team with an elite offense and terrible D yet hired an offensive guy. He ignored the D so it stayed horrible and he tried to mould the offense into his own style with disastrous consequences.

The same thing is going to happen now. The offense will be neglected whilst the good parts of the defense will be dismantled.

It's a sad day.


The reason the Mac hire failed was because he had full control of personnel at 31 years old. Period. Stop.

There are other reasons why - such as his personality, but the organization was structured in a way that whatever coach was hired to run EVERYTHING was going to fail. As 95% of coaches hired to run everything do.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.


I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.

For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently.


I understand where you and others are coming from with this, but then what's even the point of the forum, you know? Yes, none of us are involved with the coaching search to the level where we know how the candidates act in front of a panel or in the locker room, but as fans we can still use the evidence that qualified a person for a job in the first place- the performance of the units they oversaw.

It's 100% true that there's not a direct correlation between unit success and HC success- as George pointed out on Twitter- but my personal belief is that if your units don't perform well under your leadership- it sounds like there's more at play.

El, I think your example of Teryl Austin from a past thread is a great one. Detroit's D isn't the best, but his ability to absolutely maximize that talent makes him intriguing. Vance Joseph has spend most of his life developing DBs- which is fine- but most of the DBs he's developed aren't even good. Johnathan Joseph, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Pacman Jones- these guys were all first round picks- they are slightly above average players in the league. Joe Woods has had more success than Vance Joseph has in this area and seems to be equally as well regarded. DB coaches are responsible for developing a core unit, but even as DC you are responsible for roughly half the team- a major reason many coordinators are considered for HC jobs. Yet, Miami's D wasn't particularly impressive this year, and gave up, what, 5 or 6 30 point games? Understood they had injuries, but so does every team.

I personally would have preferred someone whop has managed an entire side of the ball for longer than one year. I think the success rate is higher with more experience. Going from overseeing a unit of 6-8 players, to 25, to an entire team and practice squad in two years is a huge jump. I'm just a little skeptical.


You're going to have to do a lot more research on Miami's defense. Before the season started I wasn't sure they'd win a game - and picked them to lose to Cleveland because of what I thought of the defense. Not that my opinion matters, but that's just a group that I thought would get completely walked on by opposing offenses.

Go beyond all the first rounders you called out and look at Miami's DB's if you want to evaluate Vance Joseph's impact on personnel. Byron Maxwell got a huge contract thanks to Earl Thomas. Vance Joseph made that guy look like he was actually deserving of his salary. Other than that he had a secondary full of rookies, and they developed quickly and you can definitely say he got the most out of the talent he had to work with in Miami. If you told me Miami was going to land a playoff spot this year or have a .500 record I would have laughed in your face. Remarkable what Gase and Vance got done there this year. People need to dig deeper into the Miami situation Vance was in, it's being badly mis-evaluated.
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co_ray


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.


I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.

For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently.


I understand where you and others are coming from with this, but then what's even the point of the forum, you know? Yes, none of us are involved with the coaching search to the level where we know how the candidates act in front of a panel or in the locker room, but as fans we can still use the evidence that qualified a person for a job in the first place- the performance of the units they oversaw.

It's 100% true that there's not a direct correlation between unit success and HC success- as George pointed out on Twitter- but my personal belief is that if your units don't perform well under your leadership- it sounds like there's more at play.

El, I think your example of Teryl Austin from a past thread is a great one. Detroit's D isn't the best, but his ability to absolutely maximize that talent makes him intriguing. Vance Joseph has spend most of his life developing DBs- which is fine- but most of the DBs he's developed aren't even good. Johnathan Joseph, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Pacman Jones- these guys were all first round picks- they are slightly above average players in the league. Joe Woods has had more success than Vance Joseph has in this area and seems to be equally as well regarded. DB coaches are responsible for developing a core unit, but even as DC you are responsible for roughly half the team- a major reason many coordinators are considered for HC jobs. Yet, Miami's D wasn't particularly impressive this year, and gave up, what, 5 or 6 30 point games? Understood they had injuries, but so does every team.

I personally would have preferred someone whop has managed an entire side of the ball for longer than one year. I think the success rate is higher with more experience. Going from overseeing a unit of 6-8 players, to 25, to an entire team and practice squad in two years is a huge jump. I'm just a little skeptical.


You're going to have to do a lot more research on Miami's defense. Before the season started I wasn't sure they'd win a game - and picked them to lose to Cleveland because of what I thought of the defense. Not that my opinion matters, but that's just a group that I thought would get completely walked on by opposing offenses.

Go beyond all the first rounders you called out and look at Miami's DB's if you want to evaluate Vance Joseph's impact on personnel. Byron Maxwell got a huge contract thanks to Earl Thomas. Vance Joseph made that guy look like he was actually deserving of his salary. Other than that he had a secondary full of rookies, and they developed quickly and you can definitely say he got the most out of the talent he had to work with in Miami. If you told me Miami was going to land a playoff spot this year or have a .500 record I would have laughed in your face. Remarkable what Gase and Vance got done there this year. People need to dig deeper into the Miami situation Vance was in, it's being badly mis-evaluated.


Dolphins fan here.

Just to add on, he displays all the qualities you would want in a Head Coach. Players respect him, they buy in with him.

He also dealt with a number of significant injuries. Koa Misi(starting LB), Reshad Jones(Pro Bowl Safety) Isa Abdul Quiddus(Starting Safety), Earl Mitchell for half the year(Starting DT), Xavien Howard(Starting CB), etc... The defense was a bunch of second teamers for much of the year except the couple of big name guys on the D-Line. yet, we won 10 games with a roster expected to win 6 at most. Tony Lippett played like a bonafide starting CB after being drafted in the 5th round a couple of years ago. We got production from Bacarri Rambo, who we signed off the street during the season. I could go on, but you get my point.

Great hire! And I will miss him
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

co_ray wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.


I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.

For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently.


I understand where you and others are coming from with this, but then what's even the point of the forum, you know? Yes, none of us are involved with the coaching search to the level where we know how the candidates act in front of a panel or in the locker room, but as fans we can still use the evidence that qualified a person for a job in the first place- the performance of the units they oversaw.

It's 100% true that there's not a direct correlation between unit success and HC success- as George pointed out on Twitter- but my personal belief is that if your units don't perform well under your leadership- it sounds like there's more at play.

El, I think your example of Teryl Austin from a past thread is a great one. Detroit's D isn't the best, but his ability to absolutely maximize that talent makes him intriguing. Vance Joseph has spend most of his life developing DBs- which is fine- but most of the DBs he's developed aren't even good. Johnathan Joseph, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Pacman Jones- these guys were all first round picks- they are slightly above average players in the league. Joe Woods has had more success than Vance Joseph has in this area and seems to be equally as well regarded. DB coaches are responsible for developing a core unit, but even as DC you are responsible for roughly half the team- a major reason many coordinators are considered for HC jobs. Yet, Miami's D wasn't particularly impressive this year, and gave up, what, 5 or 6 30 point games? Understood they had injuries, but so does every team.

I personally would have preferred someone whop has managed an entire side of the ball for longer than one year. I think the success rate is higher with more experience. Going from overseeing a unit of 6-8 players, to 25, to an entire team and practice squad in two years is a huge jump. I'm just a little skeptical.


You're going to have to do a lot more research on Miami's defense. Before the season started I wasn't sure they'd win a game - and picked them to lose to Cleveland because of what I thought of the defense. Not that my opinion matters, but that's just a group that I thought would get completely walked on by opposing offenses.

Go beyond all the first rounders you called out and look at Miami's DB's if you want to evaluate Vance Joseph's impact on personnel. Byron Maxwell got a huge contract thanks to Earl Thomas. Vance Joseph made that guy look like he was actually deserving of his salary. Other than that he had a secondary full of rookies, and they developed quickly and you can definitely say he got the most out of the talent he had to work with in Miami. If you told me Miami was going to land a playoff spot this year or have a .500 record I would have laughed in your face. Remarkable what Gase and Vance got done there this year. People need to dig deeper into the Miami situation Vance was in, it's being badly mis-evaluated.


Dolphins fan here.

Just to add on, he displays all the qualities you would want in a Head Coach. Players respect him, they buy in with him.

He also dealt with a number of significant injuries. Koa Misi(starting LB), Reshad Jones(Pro Bowl Safety) Isa Abdul Quiddus(Starting Safety), Earl Mitchell for half the year(Starting DT), Xavien Howard(Starting CB), etc... The defense was a bunch of second teamers for much of the year except the couple of big name guys on the D-Line. yet, we won 10 games with a roster expected to win 6 at most. Tony Lippett played like a bonafide starting CB after being drafted in the 5th round a couple of years ago. We got production from Bacarri Rambo, who we signed off the street during the season. I could go on, but you get my point.

Great hire! And I will miss him


Thanks! I talk with my friend frequently about the Dolphins as that's his team. He raves about Gase and Vance. Looking at Vance's jobs - there's really not holes in the resume. The most important thing from a head coach is respect and buying in - this guys players buy into what he sells them. It's clear he gets the most from the talent he's had in front of him. I fully expect he'll continue to in Denver.
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bobdevine


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joseph is now HC.

Quote:
It's official. Excited to announce Vance Joseph as head coach of the Denver Broncos!

https://twitter.com/johnelway/status/819268615564382215
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 8671
Location: USA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
This is Josh McDaniels all over again.


The reason the mac hire failed is because we were coming off a team with an elite offense and terrible D yet hired an offensive guy. He ignored the D so it stayed horrible and he tried to mould the offense into his own style with disastrous consequences.

The same thing is going to happen now. The offense will be neglected whilst the good parts of the defense will be dismantled.

It's a sad day.


The reason the Mac hire failed was because he had full control of personnel at 31 years old. Period. Stop.

There are other reasons why - such as his personality, but the organization was structured in a way that whatever coach was hired to run EVERYTHING was going to fail. As 95% of coaches hired to run everything do.


What??? No way man!!! Come on...hey sus!
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how he uses the word, advancement.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like there will be some contrivance on the offensive side of the ball in terms of being an attacking offense.
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