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2016 AFC Divisional Play-off GDT Steelers @ Chiefs
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Biggest Keys to Steelers Victory
Win Turnover Battle
33%
 33%  [ 6 ]
Ben throw for 300 yards
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Bell rush for 100 yards and have 50 yards receiving
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
Defense come up big against Smith, Kelce, Ware and Hill
50%
 50%  [ 9 ]
Get the ball last and score
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 18

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the bell ringer


Joined: 21 Dec 2016
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="1BackInBlackFan"]
JLambert58 wrote:
1BackInBlackFan wrote:
Crap. Touissant is in concussion protocol. Now who will return the kickoff to the 12 yard line?


lol good one.

Justin Gilbert's college stats as a kick returner:

102 returns for 2681 yards, averaging 26.3 yards per return & 6 TDs

Can anyone tell me why he's not had a chance to do it for the Steelers?


Exactly. I never understood this either. Confused[/quote




Considering what we have...I agree as well. I also think that Ayers should be getting some return action...especially on punt returns.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may get your wish. Gilbert was used to cover Kelce in the 1st game. Expect Gilbert to be active to do the same thing.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 10250
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Story line not getting much attention is that the Chiefs run defense has been leakier than you'd expect given their talent. 26th in yards and 24th in YPC.

Roethlisberger on his radio show relayed some interesting things. On the third series against the Dolphins, he said they didn't intend to pass at all unless they had to/third and long. My hunch is they were worried about the quick strikes and wanted to possess the ball for the defense. I don't really agree with that approach when you are talking about the first/second quarter myself and what you were doing was working.

Then in the second half we saw that passing attack completely out of rhythm. Roethlisberger stated that the last throw/interception, a young WR not named ran the wrong route and screwed things up. Keeping that passing attack in rhythm is important for 60 minutes in a game like this.

He further mentioned how important it will be for the offense to have a good tempo. They need plays in, they need to be at the line in time for the offense to communicate.

I worry that on the road the offense will play it too close to the vest. I worry about young WR's getting taken out of the game for stretches. I worry about Todd Haley's unwillingness or inability to coordinate his passing offense and rushing attack.

With this run game, things have to open up in the passing attack. There's no reason they can't run and pass on the same series. But the only way that seems to work is when they are in that no-huddle shotgun with Roethlisberger checking into runs at the line.

The KC game earlier in the year was one of the few this season where the play action was used to good effect. And there's no reason that shouldn't be the case this week. But Todd needs to make that happen. I'm all for running it, but you can't take your HOF QB and All Pro WR out of the game for entire drives doing it.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1693
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:

Steelers were 7-1 when they forced 2 or more turnovers. They were 4-4 when they forced less than 2 and 1-2 when they forced none.


Interesting stat I saw on General.

Turnover battle will be huge in this game. Defense needs to keep rolling with same intensity that they did against the fins.
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JLambert58


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Story line not getting much attention is that the Chiefs run defense has been leakier than you'd expect given their talent. 26th in yards and 24th in YPC.

Roethlisberger on his radio show relayed some interesting things. On the third series against the Dolphins, he said they didn't intend to pass at all unless they had to/third and long. My hunch is they were worried about the quick strikes and wanted to possess the ball for the defense. I don't really agree with that approach when you are talking about the first/second quarter myself and what you were doing was working.

Then in the second half we saw that passing attack completely out of rhythm. Roethlisberger stated that the last throw/interception, a young WR not named ran the wrong route and screwed things up. Keeping that passing attack in rhythm is important for 60 minutes in a game like this.

He further mentioned how important it will be for the offense to have a good tempo. They need plays in, they need to be at the line in time for the offense to communicate.

I worry that on the road the offense will play it too close to the vest. I worry about young WR's getting taken out of the game for stretches. I worry about Todd Haley's unwillingness or inability to coordinate his passing offense and rushing attack.

With this run game, things have to open up in the passing attack. There's no reason they can't run and pass on the same series. But the only way that seems to work is when they are in that no-huddle shotgun with Roethlisberger checking into runs at the line.

The KC game earlier in the year was one of the few this season where the play action was used to good effect. And there's no reason that shouldn't be the case this week. But Todd needs to make that happen. I'm all for running it, but you can't take your HOF QB and All Pro WR out of the game for entire drives doing it.


Great news about KC's run D. Didn't realize it was that bad. Doesn't it seem like Bell getting 100 yds on the ground is practically effortless? We've been spoiled by how freakin good he is (with his 5 - 7 buddies) Hopefully they can exploit that weakness.

Good point about the play action. It really has been underutilized for sure. With the best back in the league, you've got to take advantage of that. Two extra steps from a defender is the difference between a great play and no play.

Ben & Haley have had great plays, great series and even great halves but there always seems to be that point in the game when things go sideways, either Ben throws a pick or the playcalling is a headscratcher. I think NOW would be a great time to put together a complete game for both together.

We have had almost no trick plays this season. I think this would be a great game to unleash some throwback Randle-El type stuff. I'd like to see Bell throw a TD. (Going back to that Marcus Allen comparison)

Keep them off balance and on guard. Keep AB involved for 4 quarters. Spread the ball around: get the ball in Ayers hands, use Jesse James & Cobi Hamilton as chain movers across the middle and throw it deep to DHB a few times to keep them honest. I think these things will help Ben have a good game.
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warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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Location: Richmond Va
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need a deep shot at Marcus peters early. He stinks at that, and a complete pass his way early makes them skew coverage. I would somehow make it so he draws DHB or Coates early and take a super deep shot early.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 5551
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLambert58 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
Smith has the fastest release time (avg. something like 1.8 seconds after the snap). The pressure won't be there often. So, it's imperative to negate the Run and press those Wrs. Obviously Kelce is the main target. I'm not sure what the game plan is here but perhaps Davis draws that responsibility throughout. Could be tough sledding for the Rookie. He certainly has the athletic ability to keep up with him but Kelce is a wily Veteran. It'll prolly be Zone coverage anyways. Crying or Very sad


That's scary fast. DBs and LBs will have to keep a tight lid on coverage for as longs as possible to keep Smith out of that quick rhythm.


what happened last time we played though? We got to the QB a fair amount IIRC. It was like our wake up party fro the D IIRC. It will be a continuation, or will it be 1.8 sec which is impossible to get at?

We have different players playing, so do they, which will make this a close game IMO. If our 3b's are lighting it up, then I doubt5 KC will be able to rebound. Then consider how our D has been lately. Any stats for our D minus the browns game over the last 6 weeks or so?
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="the bell ringer"]
1BackInBlackFan wrote:
JLambert58 wrote:
1BackInBlackFan wrote:
Crap. Touissant is in concussion protocol. Now who will return the kickoff to the 12 yard line?


lol good one.

Justin Gilbert's college stats as a kick returner:

102 returns for 2681 yards, averaging 26.3 yards per return & 6 TDs

Can anyone tell me why he's not had a chance to do it for the Steelers?


Exactly. I never understood this either. Confused[/quote




Considering what we have...I agree as well. I also think that Ayers should be getting some return action...especially on punt returns.


Probably can't tell you why Gilbert hasn't returned unless he isn't healthy enough for that duty. Same people make that decision as the ones that left Ben and AB in there Rolling Eyes

Agree that Gilbert should do returns and p[lay some nickel IMO. Maybe they were saving him as they did with Harrison? Could be part of a motive tomlin and co has, something we will learn eventually.

If Gilbert avg was 20 yards, that would be good on punts wouldn't it? I don't expect KR's though, the kickers should be able to go thru the end zone unless the wind is bad.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 5551
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Story line not getting much attention is that the Chiefs run defense has been leakier than you'd expect given their talent. 26th in yards and 24th in YPC.

Roethlisberger on his radio show relayed some interesting things. On the third series against the Dolphins, he said they didn't intend to pass at all unless they had to/third and long. My hunch is they were worried about the quick strikes and wanted to possess the ball for the defense. I don't really agree with that approach when you are talking about the first/second quarter myself and what you were doing was working.

Then in the second half we saw that passing attack completely out of rhythm. Roethlisberger stated that the last throw/interception, a young WR not named ran the wrong route and screwed things up. Keeping that passing attack in rhythm is important for 60 minutes in a game like this.

He further mentioned how important it will be for the offense to have a good tempo. They need plays in, they need to be at the line in time for the offense to communicate.

I worry that on the road the offense will play it too close to the vest. I worry about young WR's getting taken out of the game for stretches. I worry about Todd Haley's unwillingness or inability to coordinate his passing offense and rushing attack.

With this run game, things have to open up in the passing attack. There's no reason they can't run and pass on the same series. But the only way that seems to work is when they are in that no-huddle shotgun with Roethlisberger checking into runs at the line.

The KC game earlier in the year was one of the few this season where the play action was used to good effect. And there's no reason that shouldn't be the case this week. But Todd needs to make that happen. I'm all for running it, but you can't take your HOF QB and All Pro WR out of the game for entire drives doing it.


I agree with running the ball for entire drives, it can break the will of a team. Ben can say all he wants, we all know that when the running game gets going with Bell, we win - that is FACT.
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TXsteeler


Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted Ben throws for more than 300 because that means Ben isn't injured.

As far as Alex Smith's snap-to-throw time, I suspected that means he doesn't get very many air yards, and at 26th in the league it turns out I was right. This is good because we tend to get wrecked by throws in the 20-40 yard range, if he is forced to throw early, they won't be getting those sorts of throws in.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with running the ball for entire drives, it can break the will of a team. Ben can say all he wants, we all know that when the running game gets going with Bell, we win - that is FACT.


There's an element of chicken and the egg to this argument. When the team is up multiple scores, they're going to run it more. When they are trailing most of the game, like say Miami game 1, the pass/run ratio is going to be skewed. I think it's a mistake to enter games with predetermined numbers you are trying to hit in either the run or passing game.

In some of Bell's biggest games, like last week, the team came out throwing to secure the lead. That includes against Buffalo.

Right now the team looks balanced on paper, but they basically have two different offenses they run. The shotgun-spread and their 2-TE/6 OL sets.

If we look at where most of Roethlisberger's turnovers have come from, it's been when they're in the latter running the ball. Which shouldn't be the case. Even when Bell is running well, teams aren't biting on play fakes. Even when the team comes out in heavy packages, teams are still playing pass first.

The real straw that stirs the drink is the HOF QB. I came into this season saying that the OL and ground game would have to play a big time role with the WR situation and people were skeptical of me (not you, 3Rivers). There's too much talent on the OL and with Bell not to run it. But the run success cannot come at the expense of the passing game.

That *is not* going to fly against NE.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:
I agree with running the ball for entire drives, it can break the will of a team. Ben can say all he wants, we all know that when the running game gets going with Bell, we win - that is FACT.


There's an element of chicken and the egg to this argument. When the team is up multiple scores, they're going to run it more. When they are trailing most of the game, like say Miami game 1, the pass/run ratio is going to be skewed. I think it's a mistake to enter games with predetermined numbers you are trying to hit in either the run or passing game.

In some of Bell's biggest games, like last week, the team came out throwing to secure the lead. That includes against Buffalo.

Right now the team looks balanced on paper, but they basically have two different offenses they run. The shotgun-spread and their 2-TE/6 OL sets.

If we look at where most of Roethlisberger's turnovers have come from, it's been when they're in the latter running the ball. Which shouldn't be the case. Even when Bell is running well, teams aren't biting on play fakes. Even when the team comes out in heavy packages, teams are still playing pass first.

The real straw that stirs the drink is the HOF QB. I came into this season saying that the OL and ground game would have to play a big time role with the WR situation and people were skeptical of me (not you, 3Rivers). There's too much talent on the OL and with Bell not to run it. But the run success cannot come at the expense of the passing game.

That *is not* going to fly against NE.


with he talent on this roster, we can do either Cool I would prefer running first, breaking the will, but if pass is it, then go pass Very Happy I just prefer watching games when the run is established and the oL has taken over the game, This in turn tends to keep the D fresh and more aggressive, a style I prefer greatly to this passing . I like a mix of passing though and the league is different now and that is what fans are watching in 2017.

The Pats could be an interesting game. Will belechick focus more on AB or Bell? What if Green returns? We have to get past KC, which won't be easy IMO.

What did you make of Bell setting a team record for rushing yards in his first playoff game? Bell is unique in his adapted style. He changed his weight, and style to suit the team he is on. Tomlinson spoke highly of Bell, and no wonder why Smile I can see Bell being our MVP on offence these playoffs.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What did you make of Bell setting a team record for rushing yards in his first playoff game? Bell is unique in his adapted style. He changed his weight, and style to suit the team he is on. Tomlinson spoke highly of Bell, and no wonder why Smile I can see Bell being our MVP on offence these playoffs.


I wouldn't want to take anything from Bell. He's a guy who should be touching the ball 30 times a game in some capacity. I am perfectly fine with 10 play drives that are all runs that end in all TD's. But there's repercussions to shutting down the passing attack for stretches of the game.

Most of Roethlisberger's interceptions in the second half of this season have come from times when its 2-TE's/6 OL packages. It's pretty clear to me that there's issues there.

I think Belichick will play pass first and try to take away Brown, and focus on situational football against Bell. .
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Dcash4


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:

What did you make of Bell setting a team record for rushing yards in his first playoff game? Bell is unique in his adapted style. He changed his weight, and style to suit the team he is on. Tomlinson spoke highly of Bell, and no wonder why Smile I can see Bell being our MVP on offence these playoffs.


I wouldn't want to take anything from Bell. He's a guy who should be touching the ball 30 times a game in some capacity. I am perfectly fine with 10 play drives that are all runs that end in all TD's. But there's repercussions to shutting down the passing attack for stretches of the game.

Most of Roethlisberger's interceptions in the second half of this season have come from times when its 2-TE's/6 OL packages. It's pretty clear to me that there's issues there.

I think Belichick will play pass first and try to take away Brown, and focus on situational football against Bell. .


I dont know that the bolded is necessarily true. The majority (6 of the 8 ) interceptions ben has thrown since the win streak started came from the shotgun. The other two were against the ravens in what were some of the most horrific passes I have ever seen Ben make.

Even then, the formations dont really tell a full story. Our struggle in the passing game is far and away due to lack of talent/diversity outside of AB.

This offense is completely different (and rightfully so) to what it was in weeks 1-5 and all of last year. The deep threat is a major part of gameplan and this year we lacked that option for 3/4 of the year due to Injuries to Coates and DHB.

Coates was tied for first in the league with plays over 40+ yards with 6....he only played 5 healthy games. That shows you the role that he and that position were going to play in the offense.

As a team last year, we had 21 such plays - leading the NFL. This year - 10. The biggest change - Wheaton, Bryant, and DHB accounted for 13 of those plays and their presence allowed Brown to have 8 of his own. Coates filled that void, then cut his hand off. DHB got hurt as well. We missed what was a huge part of our success and those cogs were never replaced (thanks, Green).

Being run focused has come from looking at the team they have, looking at where their success can come from, and saying "we cant be that team we thought we were".

No one is scared of Cobi Hamilton. No one is scared of Eli Rogers. They sure as hell are not scared of Jesse James. The pass game isnt dangerous outside of Brown. They realized the way teams played us and that the guys outside of Brown cant win 1 on 1 consistently enough to spread it out and attack - and they decided to give it to one of the best players in the league and commit assets to doing so.

And Belichick will absolutely have a game plan for us and I think he will follow the Raven model when they beat us. Bracket Brown with 2 (sometimes 3) guys and load the box. Thats what I do - until someone shows me Cobi Hamilton can beat me at a reasonable consistency, you can have him singled up all day. Thats as close to best of both worlds as you can get against us. You commit numbers to Bell and numbers to focus to Brown.

My goal for the Steelers is that DHB/Coates are one week healthier and more able to contribute. The passing game misses that deep threat and if we get that back all of a sudden in the divisional series? This offense will be tough to stop.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I dont know that the bolded is necessarily true. The majority (6 of the 8 ) interceptions ben has thrown since the win streak started came from the shotgun. The other two were against the ravens in what were some of the most horrific passes I have ever seen Ben make.


While some of my observations from memory here are wrong, as you have pointed out, there's more than 2 interceptions thrown from under center. 5 of the 8 I believe were shotgun.

Both Ravens interceptions came on plays where Roethlisberger was under center. At least the second one had only 1 WR - Eli Rodgers - on the field at the time. Then there was the third Buffalo interception which was, again, definitely under center/off play action. That's at least three.

Those were also where the passing game struggled the most (the three quarters against Baltimore and second half of Buffalo). And then the second half of this Miami game.

The passing game hasn't looked good in those moments despite the rushing success.
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