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champ11


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT is not even close to the player that OBJ is.

OBJ had a rough one today, though. Disappointing.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
DT is not even close to the player that OBJ is.

OBJ had a rough one today, though. Disappointing.



Gonna be hearing it about that Miami trip for a while now.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


Demaryius Thomas is far from the problem on the Broncos currently. The guy has an excellent chance to be Denver's all-time leading receiver. He had a down year but still amassed nearly 1100 yards and 5TDs with a passing game that was incredibly inconsistent (to be generous).

Considering the makeup on the offense, we're lucky Demaryius Thomas and Sanders are here. The WR corp is an absolute joke.

The latter point is one with which I agree.

The former, however, who cares about career stats? It's a pass-first league now and DT's stats were SOOOOOOOOO inflated thanks to the Peyton-Gase offense.

Now, Elway had to pay him as failing to do so could have caused problems with the players in the locker room. But DT has been barely average since Peyton left. Emmanuel Sanders the best WR on this team and it isn't close.


There are residual effects that you're not factoring if we were to lose DT. I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better football player than Demaryius, but I don't think he makes nearly the impact without a presence that has to be accounted for by the defense across from him.

DT's not among the elite, but he frees up our secondary options to make big plays and have a bigger impact. With the rise of cornerback talent league wide, you probably don't want to be in a situation where Manny is the #1 and gets covered by #1's with safety help. DT's physical presence demands a #1 corner's attention. Don't underestimate the value in that when there's another very talented receiver on the field such as Manny.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT had some really really good games this year. He just isn't the player people thought he was. He's never been that guy, IMO.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


Demaryius Thomas is far from the problem on the Broncos currently. The guy has an excellent chance to be Denver's all-time leading receiver. He had a down year but still amassed nearly 1100 yards and 5TDs with a passing game that was incredibly inconsistent (to be generous).

Considering the makeup on the offense, we're lucky Demaryius Thomas and Sanders are here. The WR corp is an absolute joke.

The latter point is one with which I agree.

The former, however, who cares about career stats? It's a pass-first league now and DT's stats were SOOOOOOOOO inflated thanks to the Peyton-Gase offense.

Now, Elway had to pay him as failing to do so could have caused problems with the players in the locker room. But DT has been barely average since Peyton left. Emmanuel Sanders the best WR on this team and it isn't close.


There are residual effects that you're not factoring if we were to lose DT. I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better football player than Demaryius, but I don't think he makes nearly the impact without a presence that has to be accounted for by the defense across from him.

DT's not among the elite, but he frees up our secondary options to make big plays and have a bigger impact. With the rise of cornerback talent league wide, you probably don't want to be in a situation where Manny is the #1 and gets covered by #1's with safety help. DT's physical presence demands a #1 corner's attention. Don't underestimate the value in that when there's another very talented receiver on the field such as Manny.

I don't disagree. There's no argument that DT, by his sheer physical presence, opens things up.

But the point I was making is that the stats DT put up has over-inflated his value, and thus his contract, and that stats are not the measure of a WR.

I equated ODB to DT because both are bigger stars than their production and impact warrants. If ODB didn't play on the East Coast (or for Dallas) he wouldn't be the household name he is. The best WR in that game today was carted off the field in the first quarter with broken ribs.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


That investment will actually work out great. OBJ is an elite player who produces at an elite level. DT has elite physical traits, but he's not elite as a football player the way that OBJ is. The production he puts up for a guy his size is insane, he's better on jump balls than guys who have 6 inches on him. Yea his personality kinda sucks, but he'll be worth what the Giants pay to keep him.

OBJ sucked today, he did have drops. Eli also missed throws like the one on the drive before halftime where OBJ ran a fantastic route to get open. Eli had a bad year this year, I'd say that was more the reason for OBJ's lull in production this year.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


Demaryius Thomas is far from the problem on the Broncos currently. The guy has an excellent chance to be Denver's all-time leading receiver. He had a down year but still amassed nearly 1100 yards and 5TDs with a passing game that was incredibly inconsistent (to be generous).

Considering the makeup on the offense, we're lucky Demaryius Thomas and Sanders are here. The WR corp is an absolute joke.

The latter point is one with which I agree.

The former, however, who cares about career stats? It's a pass-first league now and DT's stats were SOOOOOOOOO inflated thanks to the Peyton-Gase offense.

Now, Elway had to pay him as failing to do so could have caused problems with the players in the locker room. But DT has been barely average since Peyton left. Emmanuel Sanders the best WR on this team and it isn't close.


There are residual effects that you're not factoring if we were to lose DT. I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better football player than Demaryius, but I don't think he makes nearly the impact without a presence that has to be accounted for by the defense across from him.

DT's not among the elite, but he frees up our secondary options to make big plays and have a bigger impact. With the rise of cornerback talent league wide, you probably don't want to be in a situation where Manny is the #1 and gets covered by #1's with safety help. DT's physical presence demands a #1 corner's attention. Don't underestimate the value in that when there's another very talented receiver on the field such as Manny.

I don't disagree. There's no argument that DT, by his sheer physical presence, opens things up.

But the point I was making is that the stats DT put up has over-inflated his value, and thus his contract, and that stats are not the measure of a WR.

I equated ODB to DT because both are bigger stars than their production and impact warrants. If ODB didn't play on the East Coast (or for Dallas) he wouldn't be the household name he is. The best WR in that game today was carted off the field in the first quarter with broken ribs.


As far as stats go, there is something to say for the fact that DT's stats are always there. I'm not saying he doesn't disappear at times, or that he isn't soft, but there is absolutely something to say for a guy who always finds his way into top tier production amongst NFL receivers.

I do think we tend to dwell on the negatives with DT because they do get annoying. We take the guy for granted, 1100 yards is almost a guaranteed minimum with DT, and around here we tend to think it's an automatic for any number one option in Denver.

As far as Odell Beckham goes, that's your opinion, but it's pretty far off. What he does on the field is remarkable. Has nothing to do with where he plays, it's 2017 everyone has equal access to media. For example I haven't watched a non playoff NBA game in like 3 years and and I, living on the east coast, know who Giannis Antetokounmpo is, how good he is, how old he is, and have access to his highlights in a ton of different places... and he plays in the most irrelevant basketball (and everything else) market in the United States. The east coast bias is tired and played out. New media gets talent recognized no matter the market it's playing in... or does Jeremy Kerley deserve more recognition for being the 49ers number 1 receiver but just doesn't get it because of east coast media bias? When every American has 24/7 access to a screen, you can't really make the "coastal bias" argument anymore.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


Demaryius Thomas is far from the problem on the Broncos currently. The guy has an excellent chance to be Denver's all-time leading receiver. He had a down year but still amassed nearly 1100 yards and 5TDs with a passing game that was incredibly inconsistent (to be generous).

Considering the makeup on the offense, we're lucky Demaryius Thomas and Sanders are here. The WR corp is an absolute joke.

The latter point is one with which I agree.

The former, however, who cares about career stats? It's a pass-first league now and DT's stats were SOOOOOOOOO inflated thanks to the Peyton-Gase offense.

Now, Elway had to pay him as failing to do so could have caused problems with the players in the locker room. But DT has been barely average since Peyton left. Emmanuel Sanders the best WR on this team and it isn't close.


There are residual effects that you're not factoring if we were to lose DT. I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better football player than Demaryius, but I don't think he makes nearly the impact without a presence that has to be accounted for by the defense across from him.

DT's not among the elite, but he frees up our secondary options to make big plays and have a bigger impact. With the rise of cornerback talent league wide, you probably don't want to be in a situation where Manny is the #1 and gets covered by #1's with safety help. DT's physical presence demands a #1 corner's attention. Don't underestimate the value in that when there's another very talented receiver on the field such as Manny.

I don't disagree. There's no argument that DT, by his sheer physical presence, opens things up.

But the point I was making is that the stats DT put up has over-inflated his value, and thus his contract, and that stats are not the measure of a WR.

I equated ODB to DT because both are bigger stars than their production and impact warrants. If ODB didn't play on the East Coast (or for Dallas) he wouldn't be the household name he is. The best WR in that game today was carted off the field in the first quarter with broken ribs.


As far as stats go, there is something to say for the fact that DT's stats are always there. I'm not saying he doesn't disappear at times, or that he isn't soft, but there is absolutely something to say for a guy who always finds his way into top tier production amongst NFL receivers.

I do think we tend to dwell on the negatives with DT because they do get annoying. We take the guy for granted, 1100 yards is almost a guaranteed minimum with DT, and around here we tend to think it's an automatic for any number one option in Denver.

As far as Odell Beckham goes, that's your opinion, but it's pretty far off. What he does on the field is remarkable. Has nothing to do with where he plays, it's 2017 everyone has equal access to media. For example I haven't watched a non playoff NBA game in like 3 years and and I, living on the east coast, know who Giannis Antetokounmpo is, how good he is, how old he is, and have access to his highlights in a ton of different places... and he plays in the most irrelevant basketball (and everything else) market in the United States. The east coast bias is tired and played out. New media gets talent recognized no matter the market it's playing in... or does Jeremy Kerley deserve more recognition for being the 49ers number 1 receiver but just doesn't get it because of east coast media bias? When every American has 24/7 access to a screen, you can't really make the "coastal bias" argument anymore.

Yeah but that's people like you and me. We're relatively young and plugged in.

I can literally travel 30 miles east or 20 miles west and feel like I'm in a different country. I'm not trying to make things political, but it's that line of thinking that gets Trump elected. While we (you of the East Coast urban corridor and me of the Front Range urban corridor) can know who guys like Giannis Antetokounmpo and Jeremy Kerley are, but a lot of people still get their sports news from SportsCenter and not their iPhone. Older people and those living in "middle America" still get their world news from channel 9 and their community papers, not from Reddit or Salon. ODB, who is a remarkable talent, can be a household name while Jordy Nelson is not. How many "regular" football fans know who David Johsnon is? Some. How many know who Zeke Elliot is? All of them. That is an East Coast (or big-market) bias.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OBJ has, like, the best stats ever for a WR through however many games he has played. His production is remarkable.

He obviously gets a lot of media attention because he plays for NY and he's a celeb personality.
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broncosfan07


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah OBJ is a beast. He didn't show up today but it's hardly the first time a star had a bad playoff game or the last. Yeah he gets attention, some players have that brand that's going to garner more attention, so far it hasn't overshadowed his game.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
Yeah OBJ is a beast. He didn't show up today but it's hardly the first time a star had a bad playoff game or the last. Yeah he gets attention, some players have that brand that's going to garner more attention, so far it hasn't overshadowed his game.



4th result on google

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/15/odell-beckham-jr-becomes-fastest-player-to-record-/

he does everything for that qb and offense.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


Demaryius Thomas is far from the problem on the Broncos currently. The guy has an excellent chance to be Denver's all-time leading receiver. He had a down year but still amassed nearly 1100 yards and 5TDs with a passing game that was incredibly inconsistent (to be generous).

Considering the makeup on the offense, we're lucky Demaryius Thomas and Sanders are here. The WR corp is an absolute joke.

The latter point is one with which I agree.

The former, however, who cares about career stats? It's a pass-first league now and DT's stats were SOOOOOOOOO inflated thanks to the Peyton-Gase offense.

Now, Elway had to pay him as failing to do so could have caused problems with the players in the locker room. But DT has been barely average since Peyton left. Emmanuel Sanders the best WR on this team and it isn't close.


There are residual effects that you're not factoring if we were to lose DT. I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better football player than Demaryius, but I don't think he makes nearly the impact without a presence that has to be accounted for by the defense across from him.

DT's not among the elite, but he frees up our secondary options to make big plays and have a bigger impact. With the rise of cornerback talent league wide, you probably don't want to be in a situation where Manny is the #1 and gets covered by #1's with safety help. DT's physical presence demands a #1 corner's attention. Don't underestimate the value in that when there's another very talented receiver on the field such as Manny.

I don't disagree. There's no argument that DT, by his sheer physical presence, opens things up.

But the point I was making is that the stats DT put up has over-inflated his value, and thus his contract, and that stats are not the measure of a WR.

I equated ODB to DT because both are bigger stars than their production and impact warrants. If ODB didn't play on the East Coast (or for Dallas) he wouldn't be the household name he is. The best WR in that game today was carted off the field in the first quarter with broken ribs.


As far as stats go, there is something to say for the fact that DT's stats are always there. I'm not saying he doesn't disappear at times, or that he isn't soft, but there is absolutely something to say for a guy who always finds his way into top tier production amongst NFL receivers.

I do think we tend to dwell on the negatives with DT because they do get annoying. We take the guy for granted, 1100 yards is almost a guaranteed minimum with DT, and around here we tend to think it's an automatic for any number one option in Denver.

As far as Odell Beckham goes, that's your opinion, but it's pretty far off. What he does on the field is remarkable. Has nothing to do with where he plays, it's 2017 everyone has equal access to media. For example I haven't watched a non playoff NBA game in like 3 years and and I, living on the east coast, know who Giannis Antetokounmpo is, how good he is, how old he is, and have access to his highlights in a ton of different places... and he plays in the most irrelevant basketball (and everything else) market in the United States. The east coast bias is tired and played out. New media gets talent recognized no matter the market it's playing in... or does Jeremy Kerley deserve more recognition for being the 49ers number 1 receiver but just doesn't get it because of east coast media bias? When every American has 24/7 access to a screen, you can't really make the "coastal bias" argument anymore.

Yeah but that's people like you and me. We're relatively young and plugged in.

I can literally travel 30 miles east or 20 miles west and feel like I'm in a different country. I'm not trying to make things political, but it's that line of thinking that gets Trump elected. While we (you of the East Coast urban corridor and me of the Front Range urban corridor) can know who guys like Giannis Antetokounmpo and Jeremy Kerley are, but a lot of people still get their sports news from SportsCenter and not their iPhone. Older people and those living in "middle America" still get their world news from channel 9 and their community papers, not from Reddit or Salon. ODB, who is a remarkable talent, can be a household name while Jordy Nelson is not. How many "regular" football fans know who David Johsnon is? Some. How many know who Zeke Elliot is? All of them. That is an East Coast (or big-market) bias.


I get your point w the age gap and admittedly I didn't factor that in the point I was making about today's media consumption. But I think talent wins out... as far as offensive players like David Johnson and Zeke... I'd say even the older generation of sports fan is in on fantasy football now, so offensive names become household for the sports fan. Using the RB example though... be careful not to confuse "east coast bias" with winning team bias. Players driving winners garner more coverage and that's certainly fair, as the common fan is a front runner lol.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The giants are really blowing this. A couple awful defensive lapses to end the first half. The play calling is super disappointing on offense though. They can throw all over this packers secondary and they're staying way too balanced. This Packers secondary is asking to be exploited, yet McAdoo plays into their strength, the run d.

The drops - ODB's on what could have been a first & goal, his subsequent drop in the end zone and then Shepard's in the end zone on the next possession - it could have been, and should have been, 14-0 Giants at the end of the first instead of 3-0 Giants.

OBD is the East Coast's version of DT - elite talent who drops the easiest of passes in the biggest of moments. Go ahead and give him $18m/year Jerry Reese, ask Elway how well that investment has worked out here.


Demaryius Thomas is far from the problem on the Broncos currently. The guy has an excellent chance to be Denver's all-time leading receiver. He had a down year but still amassed nearly 1100 yards and 5TDs with a passing game that was incredibly inconsistent (to be generous).

Considering the makeup on the offense, we're lucky Demaryius Thomas and Sanders are here. The WR corp is an absolute joke.

The latter point is one with which I agree.

The former, however, who cares about career stats? It's a pass-first league now and DT's stats were SOOOOOOOOO inflated thanks to the Peyton-Gase offense.

Now, Elway had to pay him as failing to do so could have caused problems with the players in the locker room. But DT has been barely average since Peyton left. Emmanuel Sanders the best WR on this team and it isn't close.


Don't agree. Also, the rumblings out there that Emmanuel Sanders caused some discord in the locker room seem very real, considering he did the same thing in Pittsburgh.

People can say whatever about the "inflated offense" propping up his numbers. The reality is, you don't amass the numbers DT did by being an average player. He has some drop issues, but like I said, he put up good numbers in a year where our offense is a mess. We're able to keep two WRs because we are paying next to money to our QBs. Besides, having two pro-bowl receivers only helps a young QB.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seahawk fans must know what's it like to have John Fox coach them.

53 secs left and 3 TO's down 9, with ATL about to get the ball back, and they sit it down? When the SEA D hasn't been able to stop the ATL O?

OMG I'd be going nuts if I was a SEA fan right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just like that ATL is up 26-10. Full credit to ATL & Shanahan for exploiting the SEA D weaknesses, but Carroll's deciding to sit on the ball with 53 secs and 3 TO's, it may not be the difference, but just an awful decision. Even a FG given them a different outlook - they are realistically down 3 scores unless they are perfect in 2 2-pt converts.

Love Carroll in general, but today wasn't great for him.
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