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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 291
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope we make all the cuts we on this forum have spoken about ala Webb doom wright Lewis zuttah and Arrington. If we do our biggest need in my opinion are

1.safety
2.center
3.cornerback
4.pass rush
5.receiver

If we can have a good to great offensive line and give flacco time we have weapons all over the field to have a top 10 offense and if we can add playmakers in the backend ala Malik Hooker and cover a bit better a bit longer we have a good front seven now that can bring the pressure in my opinion.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 802
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
I really hope we make all the cuts we on this forum have spoken about ala Webb doom wright Lewis zuttah and Arrington. If we do our biggest need in my opinion are

1.safety
2.center
3.cornerback
4.pass rush
5.receiver

If we can have a good to great offensive line and give flacco time we have weapons all over the field to have a top 10 offense and if we can add playmakers in the backend ala Malik Hooker and cover a bit better a bit longer we have a good front seven now that can bring the pressure in my opinion.


Based of that, it could look something like

1. Jamal Adams
2. Ethan Pocic
3. Kevin King
4. Devonte Fields
5. Ryan Switzer

I could go for that
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11354
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't really get the fascination with cutting Webb, at all. He transitioned to safety about as well as we could have hoped. Didn't really get burned much. You aren't going to find a better safety on the market for the $5.5M we'll save, ignoring the comp pick ramifications of signing a FA, which Ozzie won't ignore.

Basically you just created a massive hole in the starting lineup which I guess people are thinking we'd fill with Hooker or Adams in the draft, but beyond the problems with locking yourself in to a position or being dependent on a rookie panning out immediately, both of those guys have pretty good chances to be gone before we pick.

And no, I don't think he accepts a pay cut to stay on the team. We don't have leverage to make him. He'll get close to the same money in the seller's market of FA, and/or more years. Extension is a possibility, but I don't think the additional years will be lower than $4M per, and pushing back cap hits isn't like a magic way to get money.
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OleXmad


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
I really hope we make all the cuts we on this forum have spoken about ala Webb doom wright Lewis zuttah and Arrington. If we do our biggest need in my opinion are

1.safety
2.center
3.cornerback
4.pass rush
5.receiver

If we can have a good to great offensive line and give flacco time we have weapons all over the field to have a top 10 offense and if we can add playmakers in the backend ala Malik Hooker and cover a bit better a bit longer we have a good front seven now that can bring the pressure in my opinion.


Safety is not a big issue, Safety depth is an issue but the starters are set (Webb wasn't brilliant but he's still a solid starter who can play CB when needed)

I don't see center being a position we need to replace, Zuttah is a solid C (and cheap) and we definitely need another starting CB before we need a center, Adding another young pass rusher once when we cut doom would be a solid move as well.

Ozzie will sign a veteran WR who gets cut (Brandon Marshall etc.) or trade for one, or Go after someone like Pierre Garcon.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 10726
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
Safety is not a big issue, Safety depth is an issue but the starters are set (Webb wasn't brilliant but he's still a solid starter who can play CB when needed)

I don't see center being a position we need to replace, Zuttah is a solid C (and cheap) and we definitely need another starting CB before we need a center, Adding another young pass rusher once when we cut doom would be a solid move as well.

Ozzie will sign a veteran WR who gets cut (Brandon Marshall etc.) or trade for one, or Go after someone like Pierre Garcon.


Safety is an issue because Weddle and Webb are both going to be 32 during this upcoming season. That's not a position you draft a rookie the year you need one to start and expect him to be competent right away. They take time to develop so getting one now, preferably a FS since Lardarius is closer to being done than Eric, makes a lot of sense. Especially if Hooker is there at 16.

Zuttah sucks. He was really bad this year but the center conversion projects (Urschel and Jensen) didn't go so well and all of the injuries elsewhere along the line made it hard for the Ravens to bench him during this season. The line needs to be upgraded and it's not a coaching thing alone, although getting rid of Castillo is huge. With Stanley, Yanda, and Lewis set as three starters getting in a different center and right tackle (assuming Wagner bolts in free agency) is a good amount of change that could get things turned around.

Definitely agree that a veteran wide receiver is more likely to be added than drafting one. Seems to be Baltimore's preferred method and the team has some bigger pressing issues that need to be addressed early in the draft.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3301
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Ravens aren't happy with Urschel taking over from Zuttah (and they can't be, otherwise he'd have done so this season), then I want them to try and find a starting Center in this draft.

Pocic or Elflein are projected to go in the 2nd round at the moment, and I would be happy with either of them falling to the Ravens. They've said they want the O-line to be the source of strength for the offense, and that has to start with the Center.

Meanwhile, it does not look like a good Offensive Tackle class this year, which makes me happier that the Ravens got Stanley last year (a move I didn't like, but feel I've been proved wrong on). So finding a RT in the mid-rounds will be tough. At least if you want him to start any time soon.

It looks like Wagner would be the best deal the Ravens could do in FA. If he goes, then I can't see a FA signing who could replace him.

And with the other big FA, Brandon Williams, the Ravens could get lucky... or super unlucky. It looks like quite a stacked FA batch, on the D-line. So Williams could get overlooked in favour of bigger names like JPP, Calais Campbell, Dontari Poe, Kawann Short and Nick Fairley. Or he could end up as part of a mad scramble for teams to pay big money for big guys.

As for a veteran WR, I could see the Ravens going for someone like Jeremy Kerley. Kenny Stills is hitting FA too, and I still like him as a player. But I imagine Miami can tie him up fairly cheaply.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 802
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, it all starts with the offensive line, so if we have to spend FA money on someone, it should be RT. I really like Brandon Williams, and while Carl Davis despite his physical upside may never amount to anything and Michael Pierce might be best in a backup role, I'd rather have the FO keep Wagner if it comes down to him and Williams.

My faith in our defense doing anything proper is very low.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3301
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
To me, it all starts with the offensive line, so if we have to spend FA money on someone, it should be RT. I really like Brandon Williams, and while Carl Davis despite his physical upside may never amount to anything and Michael Pierce might be best in a backup role, I'd rather have the FO keep Wagner if it comes down to him and Williams.

My faith in our defense doing anything proper is very low.


I agree. Wagner should be the number one priority. He is more important to the success of the team than Brandon Williams, as good as Williams is. And one position I have faith in the Ravens to consistently find starting calibre talent is the D-line.

But I think they might have room for both, if they manage the cap ruthlessly this off-season (read: cut a bunch of guys who cost too much).
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 10726
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, I think you guys are overrating Wagner by a good bit. He's solid but that's that's s far as I would go. It just happens that he's still going to be the best right tackle in free agency so his price is going to come at a premium.

I really don't think it would be the smartest move by the Ravens to dump top money into a player of his calibre. And I doubt they do if Wagner goes looking for the most money (like he should). Rick wouldn't be that hard to replace in the draft, especially with Yanda sitting at right guard and being a big boon to anybody next to him at right tackle.

Sucks for continuity on the offensive line but if Baltimore starts going overpaying their average players when they're almost always a team that's up against the cap it's going to really hurt in the long-run.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 33069
Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I don't know, I think you guys are overrating Wagner by a good bit. He's solid but that's that's s far as I would go. It just happens that he's still going to be the best right tackle in free agency so his price is going to come at a premium.

I really don't think it would be the smartest move by the Ravens to dump top money into a player of his calibre. And I doubt they do if Wagner goes looking for the most money (like he should). Rick wouldn't be that hard to replace in the draft, especially with Yanda sitting at right guard and being a big boon to anybody next to him at right tackle.

Sucks for continuity on the offensive line but if Baltimore starts going overpaying their average players when they're almost always a team that's up against the cap it's going to really hurt in the long-run.


agreed 100%.

if we are going to sink, say $9m/yr into a player, I'd much rather spend it on our elite NT rather than our perhaps slightly above average RT.
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. . . Flacco is right. . .
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 802
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I don't know, I think you guys are overrating Wagner by a good bit. He's solid but that's that's s far as I would go. It just happens that he's still going to be the best right tackle in free agency so his price is going to come at a premium.

I really don't think it would be the smartest move by the Ravens to dump top money into a player of his calibre. And I doubt they do if Wagner goes looking for the most money (like he should). Rick wouldn't be that hard to replace in the draft, especially with Yanda sitting at right guard and being a big boon to anybody next to him at right tackle.

Sucks for continuity on the offensive line but if Baltimore starts going overpaying their average players when they're almost always a team that's up against the cap it's going to really hurt in the long-run.


With that philosophy, we are going to let Rick Wagner and Brandon Williams walk and take our chances on old veterans in FA and we will face the same issues as this year.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3301
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wagner was the #4 rated pass blocking RT this year (run blocking probably wasn't anything special, just like the rest of the O-line). That isn't easy to replace, either in FA or the draft.

Remember Michael Oher on skates, getting Joe killed and killing drives with penalties? You have good Tackles, you don't let them go unless you have to. And I don't think the Ravens have to.

If they do, because they think paying the going rate for a consistent, reliable RT who protects his QB well is too much of a luxury? Then they'll continue to have the same issues they have now.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:

If they do, because they think paying the going rate for a consistent, reliable RT who protects his QB well is too much of a luxury? Then they'll continue to have the same issues they have now.


This is the thing though... He's likely the best RT in FA this year.

Is it worth paying a "consistent, reliable RT" top 3 (possibly higher) money?

It's all about what he's going to seek. Obviously the Ravens would love for him to stay. But, it has to be worth the money.
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. . . Flacco is right. . .
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 10726
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
With that philosophy, we are going to let Rick Wagner and Brandon Williams walk and take our chances on old veterans in FA and we will face the same issues as this year.


I wouldn't classify Williams as the same calibre of player as Wagner though. Brandon is elite at his position. Worth spending the money on.

Wagner, despite his #4 pass protection ranking this year, just isn't up there like that as an overall player. But he's going to get paid like he is. If Baltimore is able to get him for around the same $6 million a year on average that most of the top right tackles are making then great, bring him back. That's a good deal for a guy leading his position on the free agent market. But there are going to be a few teams with bunches of cap space. I think Rick is going to get a good chunk more than that.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 802
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Danand wrote:
With that philosophy, we are going to let Rick Wagner and Brandon Williams walk and take our chances on old veterans in FA and we will face the same issues as this year.


I wouldn't classify Williams as the same calibre of player as Wagner though. Brandon is elite at his position. Worth spending the money on.

Wagner, despite his #4 pass protection ranking this year, just isn't up there like that as an overall player. But he's going to get paid like he is. If Baltimore is able to get him for around the same $6 million a year on average that most of the top right tackles are making then great, bring him back. That's a good deal for a guy leading his position on the free agent market. But there are going to be a few teams with bunches of cap space. I think Rick is going to get a good chunk more than that.


I think we all know, that when it comes to the position, Brandon Williams ranks higher than on the NT list than Wagner does on the RT list.

And ofc we can't give Wagner Osemele-like-money, but at some point we have to pay guys who fills a need that has proven more difficult to replace.

If Harbaugh or anyone else speak of consistency as a reason to keep Mornhinweg, they should do the same with the offensive line which has been a revolving door with Yanda as the sole anchor.

As I see it, we have an opportunity to solidify our oline the next 3 years if we get a solution at center if we retain Wagner. That would be key to get an offense which doesn't suck or is average at best.
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