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No Change At Coordinators
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 1004
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have said, Harbaugh just tied himself to Mornhinweg and Pees. If Ravens miss the playoffs next year, Bisciotti have to step in and decide whether to keep Harbaugh at the expense of the coordinators or get rid of them all and start over.
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jpeter15


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
As others have said, Harbaugh just tied himself to Mornhinweg and Pees. If Ravens miss the playoffs next year, Bisciotti have to step in and decide whether to keep Harbaugh at the expense of the coordinators or get rid of them all and start over.


I wonder if that is the case or if he uses them to save himself next year at their expense. I felt that was what Billick did by keeping Cavanaugh as the OC for way too long.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Harbaugh can't use them as a shield since the coordinator decisions are up to him. He said so in the press conference today. I really hope Bisciotti steps in after next season and demands changes.

Coaching is paramount in the NFL. Teams aren't going to win without it being good, the lone exception is having a HoF QB leading the offense as long as the defense isn't trash. Don't have a lot of optimism for the Ravens in 2017 because of that. They certainly do not have good coaching for the two most important facets of the game, and Harbaugh has no influence so...

It's a shame that the Ravens will probably be just meh enough that they won't end up with a higher draft pick. Barring widespread injuries of course, which always plagues this team for some reason.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:


Exactly.

Looks like Jon is going down with the ship, if need be. It's funny how we joke about how rampant nepotism is in sports, but then we see examples like this time and time again and all we can do is shake our heads at the sad reality of it.

And it's a shame too because Harbaugh is a good coach in many regards, but easily his biggest drawback has been his blind loyalty to his friends. Just looking back at Harbaugh's tenure, some of his most successful teams have simply been because he went away from his friends. It's like the man would rather enjoy working with his friends than putting a team together composed of co-workers he doesn't really have a friendship with. You just can't do that in football; unless your friends happen to be some of the best assistants around...and these guys are not that.
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Matts4313 wrote:
For years the argument has been, mostly, Peyton V Joe V Brady as the GOAT QB.

Flacco?
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Brian McFarland ‏@RavensSalaryCap 12h12 hours ago
Brian McFarland Retweeted Vince Scaccio
Thing is, despite detractors here in BAL, he's highly thought of league-wide, so he can likely bet on himself & still find a new gig in '18


Sadly that's true too and it sucks for the Ravens and their fans. Harbaugh would get a chance somewhere else very quickly. Maybe if he went to a team with a GM and/or owner that demanded better coordinators and/or schemes he would be a great coach again. As it is... nope. Can't call him that right now with so much bad coaching on the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3469
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I just feel like it's déjà vu all over again. A year ago, we were hoping Pees would be gone, taking his soft [inappropriate/removed] defensive system with him. But Harbs prizes loyalty above competence, and I guess having a good statistical defense this year has given him all the ammo he needs to keep his buddy.

As for Mornhinweg, I'm a little less annoyed. I mean, who else were they going to get? What else could they try, to get the offense working consistently? Changing OC again could be just as bad as keeping him. They probably need a change in everything, from coaches to players to front office, to ever have anything better than an average offense.

I still can't believe how an organisation that claims to want to be the best is so prepared to accept mediocrity in the vital roles of developing players and schemes. At some point, you have to realise their rhetoric is completely empty.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
As for Mornhinweg, I'm a little less annoyed. I mean, who else were they going to get? What else could they try, to get the offense working consistently? Changing OC again could be just as bad as keeping him. They probably need a change in everything, from coaches to players to front office, to ever have anything better than an average offense.

I still can't believe how an organisation that claims to want to be the best is so prepared to accept mediocrity in the vital roles of developing players and schemes. At some point, you have to realise their rhetoric is completely empty.


They could have gotten somebody who doesn't suck, or at least one that hasn't proven he sucks yet. The offense is going to change this offseason regardless because Mornhinweg will be installing his own scheme. And if not the team is dead in the water before free agency even begins... not that Marty's offense is anything worth having faith in.

If Harbaugh gets canned next offseason I wonder if Ozzie uses that as a natural breaking point and retires himself. DeCosta's time is coming soon and he's only going to turn down multiple job opportunities every year for so long.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping the coordinators/trainers is basically accepting the current state of the ravens. They could just as well go into next year with the exact same roster and hope for better results.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
As for Mornhinweg, I'm a little less annoyed. I mean, who else were they going to get? What else could they try, to get the offense working consistently? Changing OC again could be just as bad as keeping him. They probably need a change in everything, from coaches to players to front office, to ever have anything better than an average offense.

I still can't believe how an organisation that claims to want to be the best is so prepared to accept mediocrity in the vital roles of developing players and schemes. At some point, you have to realise their rhetoric is completely empty.


They could have gotten somebody who doesn't suck, or at least one that hasn't proven he sucks yet. The offense is going to change this offseason regardless because Mornhinweg will be installing his own scheme. And if not the team is dead in the water before free agency even begins... not that Marty's offense is anything worth having faith in.

If Harbaugh gets canned next offseason I wonder if Ozzie uses that as a natural breaking point and retires himself. DeCosta's time is coming soon and he's only going to turn down multiple job opportunities every year for so long.


The point I'm making is, the Ravens have a pretty terrible record of hiring OCs. Kubiak was the only one who wasn't crap, and even he didn't have the offense lighting anyone up. They were just competent.

So why anyone has any faith in things actually improving if they fire Mornhinweg, I don't know. They'll just hire someone else, and we'll just see the exact same offensive problems next year. Receivers dropping passes, the O-line making stupid mistakes, the QB making stupid mistakes.

They need to change the entire culture of offense at the organisation, and a whole series of OCs has not managed to do it. At this point, I don't know what would.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl 1h1 hour ago
#Ravens let go Asst OL coach Todd Washington and Director of Strength & Conditioning Bob Rogucki, sources said.


Quote:
Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl 1h1 hour ago
Ravens now in market for 3 coaches (Asst OL, Strength and conditioning, QBs).


That's the wrong OL coach they needed to fire.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an expedient and scapegoat firing, to avoid Harbaugh having to get rid of Castillo. How can the assistant O-line coach be worthy of firing, if the actual O-line coach isn't?
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scapegoat is a word that came to mind.
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Harding


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean Pees defense has collapsed two years in a row. His 'exotic blitzes' that some in the media report he has are laughable. Until week 16, it was a challenge to even find a defensive play where the lineman performed a stunt or any type of play design where it wasn't 4 (or 3 Rolling Eyes ) guys just pushing forward.

I look at the Vikings and other teams and how they run there defense and it is a million times better than Pees. Firstly, the corners and safeties aren't 20 yards deep (which still did not limit the big plays). Just having guys at the line of scrimmage and not knowing who is blitzing would help. send a double A gap look every now and then. Use stunts and odd looks. I guess I am just asking too much. I just miss our old defense.

We need Jimmy to be healthy. Losing him meant safeties had to play towards corners and deeper which screwed up our run defense (although I only say mildly as the front seven still need to do there job). Corner is a huge need this off-season. The FO can not ignore it again. Surely not.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harding wrote:
Dean Pees defense has collapsed two years in a row. His 'exotic blitzes' that some in the media report he has are laughable. Until week 16, it was a challenge to even find a defensive play where the lineman performed a stunt or any type of play design where it wasn't 4 (or 3 Rolling Eyes ) guys just pushing forward.

I look at the Vikings and other teams and how they run there defense and it is a million times better than Pees. Firstly, the corners and safeties aren't 20 yards deep (which still did not limit the big plays). Just having guys at the line of scrimmage and not knowing who is blitzing would help. send a double A gap look every now and then. Use stunts and odd looks. I guess I am just asking too much. I just miss our old defense.

We need Jimmy to be healthy. Losing him meant safeties had to play towards corners and deeper which screwed up our run defense (although I only say mildly as the front seven still need to do there job). Corner is a huge need this off-season. The FO can not ignore it again. Surely not.


I am absolutely with you. Dean Pees relies heavily on the 4 pass rushers to beat their man. 2 to push the pocket with some interior pressure and the 2 outside pressuring the QB to force quick throws. This way cornerbacks can sit back 7-12 yards and make the tackle, break up the pass or interrupt the route forcing 3 down and 4-5 yards. When the pass rush isn't there, the concept collapse and he can't adjust.
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OleXmad


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harbaugh is still a top 10 HC in this league, Pees definitely has his problems but the defense stepped up this year (Until we needed them the most, Damn you Pittsburgh) Even if harbaugh misses the playoffs, I don't think Biscotti would fire him.
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