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Jimmie G and "buyer beware" from Pats
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sbrown


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 10585
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
I'm somewhere in between you two. I think Kaep staying wouldn't be the worst conclusion for 2017. But I do want to find a longterm answer, whether that be Garoppolo, another young veteran, or a draft pick in 2018. I'm done with Kaepernick (the player), but it's not like there's a lot of options on the shelves for the 2017 QB sale.


This is where I sit. There is NOT a rookie nor FA that I feel is an immediate upgrade to Kap. He has 1 year remaining on his contract, so does Jimmy G. So if Josh like Jimmy G, why trade assets for him when its plausible we can get him for nothing in free agency the following year. keep Kap and his cheap QB contract for 1 year, and use our Cap and drafts to fortify other positions until either our mid round drafted QB, or next seasons High round drafted QB or Jimmy G comes in.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I'm somewhere in between you two. I think Kaep staying wouldn't be the worst conclusion for 2017. But I do want to find a longterm answer, whether that be Garoppolo, another young veteran, or a draft pick in 2018. I'm done with Kaepernick (the player), but it's not like there's a lot of options on the shelves for the 2017 QB sale.


This is where I sit. There is NOT a rookie nor FA that I feel is an immediate upgrade to Kap. He has 1 year remaining on his contract, so does Jimmy G. So if Josh like Jimmy G, why trade assets for him when its plausible we can get him for nothing in free agency the following year. keep Kap and his cheap QB contract for 1 year, and use our Cap and drafts to fortify other positions until either our mid round drafted QB, or next seasons High round drafted QB or Jimmy G comes in.


Sometimes (and Josh has already shown he's subject to this), you just want your guy. No doubt, he would also see Jimmy G as a considerable upgrade over Kaepernick (I would assume) if he and the new GM made this trade. But given our team situation, I'm not going to put a leash on the new coach or GM and say that you need to stick with what we have, especially when what we have resulted in a 2-14 season. If Jimmy G is your guy that you think is a franchise guy, and the guy that you want to help you think you can win (sometimes, mindset is important), then by all means go get him (at a reasonable cost...which is not a first and a fourth). There's no guarantee he would have any desire to sign here as a free agent (small advantage to re-sign players in my opinion rather than get them on the open market).

I think that most already know what Kaepernick is - Jimmy G has a lot that is unknown (which could be both good and bad, obviously)
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3148
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Forge wrote:
For me, as I said in the other thread, it's very simple.

The idea of spending a second this year on Jimmy G for a year is superior to spending the #2 overall pick on one of these quarterbacks. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of these guys coming out. The contract situation for Jimmy G doesn't bother me since we won't be truly competitive for a few years and have nothing but money. If he craps the bed, we lose a second (maybe a conditional pick the following year or whatever), but only one year it trying to figure him out, and then come back next year and take our QBOFT in a stacked class.


this is how I feel about it ^

.. except I don't think the 49ers are so far away from being a good team. A handful of strong additions, and coaches.. a little luck on quick cohesion.. and the NFC competition doesn't scare me that much moving forward. Wink


I agree,
Via Overthecap.com we are scheduled to have close to 80M under the cap
with the right GM and Coach, to use our money and draft picks wisely we could be a middle of the road, respectable team in one year, and a contender in two.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Forge wrote:
For me, as I said in the other thread, it's very simple.

The idea of spending a second this year on Jimmy G for a year is superior to spending the #2 overall pick on one of these quarterbacks. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of these guys coming out. The contract situation for Jimmy G doesn't bother me since we won't be truly competitive for a few years and have nothing but money. If he craps the bed, we lose a second (maybe a conditional pick the following year or whatever), but only one year it trying to figure him out, and then come back next year and take our QBOFT in a stacked class.


this is how I feel about it ^

.. except I don't think the 49ers are so far away from being a good team. A handful of strong additions, and coaches.. a little luck on quick cohesion.. and the NFC competition doesn't scare me that much moving forward. Wink


I agree,
Via Overthecap.com we are scheduled to have close to 80M under the cap
with the right GM and Coach, to use our money and draft picks wisely we could be a middle of the road, respectable team in one year, and a contender in two.


That includes Kaep, who I don't expect to be back. I ran it down in the other thread..we could have 110m in cap space with justifiable cuts if we wanted, though we won't go that route because there's no reason to cut some of them. But Kaep is one I certainly don't expect back, so our overall cap space should be about 95 million.
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3148
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I'm somewhere in between you two. I think Kaep staying wouldn't be the worst conclusion for 2017. But I do want to find a longterm answer, whether that be Garoppolo, another young veteran, or a draft pick in 2018. I'm done with Kaepernick (the player), but it's not like there's a lot of options on the shelves for the 2017 QB sale.


This is where I sit. There is NOT a rookie nor FA that I feel is an immediate upgrade to Kap. He has 1 year remaining on his contract, so does Jimmy G. So if Josh like Jimmy G, why trade assets for him when its plausible we can get him for nothing in free agency the following year. keep Kap and his cheap QB contract for 1 year, and use our Cap and drafts to fortify other positions until either our mid round drafted QB, or next seasons High round drafted QB or Jimmy G comes in.


I feel the same way,
use FA to bolster the porous O-line (that was STILL better than last years) and strengthen the defense (so when we DO get a 2 score lead we can keep it) then draft a true #1 WR that can catch Kap's passes (no matter WHERE they go) draft a qb next year (or this year) to bring along slowly in what ever the new system is.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19733
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I'm somewhere in between you two. I think Kaep staying wouldn't be the worst conclusion for 2017. But I do want to find a longterm answer, whether that be Garoppolo, another young veteran, or a draft pick in 2018. I'm done with Kaepernick (the player), but it's not like there's a lot of options on the shelves for the 2017 QB sale.


This is where I sit. There is NOT a rookie nor FA that I feel is an immediate upgrade to Kap. He has 1 year remaining on his contract, so does Jimmy G. So if Josh like Jimmy G, why trade assets for him when its plausible we can get him for nothing in free agency the following year. keep Kap and his cheap QB contract for 1 year, and use our Cap and drafts to fortify other positions until either our mid round drafted QB, or next seasons High round drafted QB or Jimmy G comes in.


I can see this position. My deciding factor is, aside from wondering how good or bad Kap is, that this is a complete rebuild/fresh start. I think that almost has to include the QB. Even if we just get rid of Kap and get a guy that is no better, it's still part of the fresh start.

Contract issues are always tricky. The one thing a team has giong for them when they got a guy signed is that they are the only team that can negotiate with him for the future - a contract extension. That gives them a leg up on everyone else. So there is some theoretical advantage to having a guy signed here for his final year rather than trying to trying to sign him in the future when he's a FA.
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