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Andy Reid, Bob Sutton and staff need to go. Retire or Fire
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7806
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I don't know, but look at the talent here. Sutton just has not proven to be a plus coach in his tenure here, imo. In this case, I don't have an answer for who off the top of my head.

Looking at the talent is one reason why he's a plus coach. High draft picks with character concerns that are not character issues. Low draft and WW nobodies that produce and have trade value. Player handling and development is a big reason why he's a plus coach.

mayanfootball wrote:
Unless we play Pittsburgh?
They destroyed us with quick scores early and led 21-0 before Chiefs fans could blink (3TD's in 6 plalys). It was the disaster of 2016. Bob Sutton didn't know what hit him before the game was out of reach. The slaughter was 29-0 before halftime and 36-0 after. We'll probably play Pittsburgh again. I hope he's got a real plan this time.

This team would love to play Pittburgh again. Just sayin'.

J


What? He is not the one drafting or finding good players on the scrap heap. Nor is he directly responsible for developing and handling any positions. He coordinates and calls the defense. He is involved to an extent with some of that other stuff, but the role he is directly involved in he is very average at best. 2014, I'll say he was fantastic cuz the players in the secondary and ILB just weren't there and KC was still a top defensive team. He seems to be one of those guys who does a lot with a little, but can't turn a lot into anything overly dominant.

And yes...they would love to play Pit again. So would I.
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Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.
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samsel23


Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 4960
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
onejayhawk wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I don't know, but look at the talent here. Sutton just has not proven to be a plus coach in his tenure here, imo. In this case, I don't have an answer for who off the top of my head.

Looking at the talent is one reason why he's a plus coach. High draft picks with character concerns that are not character issues. Low draft and WW nobodies that produce and have trade value. Player handling and development is a big reason why he's a plus coach.

mayanfootball wrote:
Unless we play Pittsburgh?
They destroyed us with quick scores early and led 21-0 before Chiefs fans could blink (3TD's in 6 plalys). It was the disaster of 2016. Bob Sutton didn't know what hit him before the game was out of reach. The slaughter was 29-0 before halftime and 36-0 after. We'll probably play Pittsburgh again. I hope he's got a real plan this time.

This team would love to play Pittburgh again. Just sayin'.

J


What? He is not the one drafting or finding good players on the scrap heap. Nor is he directly responsible for developing and handling any positions. He coordinates and calls the defense. He is involved to an extent with some of that other stuff, but the role he is directly involved in he is very average at best. 2014, I'll say he was fantastic cuz the players in the secondary and ILB just weren't there and KC was still a top defensive team. He seems to be one of those guys who does a lot with a little, but can't turn a lot into anything overly dominant.

And yes...they would love to play Pit again. So would I.


Our HC is the same? It's all the scheme.... Sutton doesn't change his scheme for players, nor does Reid.

My only complaint early was Reid wasn't putting his guys in positions to make plays. Sutton's scheme was.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7806
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reid has put the foot down a little more the past 2 games, but yes he has had some of those same struggles, but also hasn't had the personnel on offense that Sutton has had on defense over these 4 years. Not to mention he runs the whole team and does a great job overall, despite his flaws. Sutton only has one main job.

Yes, his guys are usually in position to make turnovers...but when they play Ben and Brady and turnovers are harder to come by...what happens when his players aren't in position to stop 3rd down conversions?

Not saying KC can't/won't win anyways...but it'll be a lot harder.
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Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15324
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Reid has put the foot down a little more the past 2 games, but yes he has had some of those same struggles, but also hasn't had the personnel on offense that Sutton has had on defense over these 4 years. Not to mention he runs the whole team and does a great job overall, despite his flaws. Sutton only has one main job.

Yes, his guys are usually in position to make turnovers...but when they play Ben and Brady and turnovers are harder to come by...what happens when his players aren't in position to stop 3rd down conversions?

Not saying KC can't/won't win anyways...but it'll be a lot harder.


First of all, we've been top 10 in 3rd down conversion over the last quarter of the season. It's something that has improved as the season has gone on. Save for the Tampa game, which was probably the worst of the season there.

But the bigger point here, is I think some just don't understand the objective of our defense. I've said it briefly in a few cases, but clearly I need to embellish a bit more. Our goal is not to be a shut down defense. We don't try. It is blatant from our play calling, from our technique, from how and where we line up, we are not trying to be the 2000 Ravens. We're not even trying to be the recent Seahawks. It is too difficult in the current landscape of the NFL to be a shut down defense. You have to be consistent, you have to be healthy, there can be no misreads or tripping or penalties to do it. So we don't bother. He calls our defense in a way for us to pick our spots. 1st and 10, we'll play things relatively cautiously. 2nd and medium, same deal. Our goal on those types of plays is to keep everything in front, read and react, and limit the gain. On first and 10, you're never going to see one of our CBs in press coverage trying to dive in front of a slant pass to knock it down. Yeah, we'd get some incompletions that way, but that's also how OBJ and Julio Jones and Amari Cooper take slant passes 80 yards. You'll see the same exact thing in the run game. For years, we've seen DJ aggressively dive into the hole. It leads to some amazing tackles for losses. It also leads to some open lanes. He did that substantially less this year than years past, and no other LB has even attempted that kind of aggressiveness. We are not willing, schematically, to yield more 10+ yard plays in exchange for a few more 0 yard or negative plays.

The premise is that on most drives, the opposing offense will still commit a penalty, we'll break a block and still make a tackle in the backfield or a sack, they'll get aggressive and our DBs will be in perfect position to cover deeper or longer developing routes, we'll tip the ball at the line, the QB will make a bad pass, etc., etc., etc. SOMETHING will happen, either because one of our great players forces it or their offense errs, to put us in a situation to be aggressive. We won't come out of the gate attacking on 1st and 10, but a holding call leading to 1st and 20, or a batted pass leading to 2nd and 10, or a loss of yardage leading to 3rd and 7, we'll tighten up really quickly when those opportunities present themselves. Or situational football like in the red zone, on the goal line, in short yardage, etc. Effectively, it's too difficult to try to shut down even a semi-competent offense on every play, and coaching to do so will inevitably lead to mistakes on the defense's end. So we play it safe until the down and distance or field position tip things in our favor, and then we press the issue forcefully.

It works. It has worked all year. It looks horrendous statistically, but we all know how well this defense has played even when the stats don't reflect it whatsoever. The fact is, we just don't try to be that defense that allows 300 yards per game or 4.5 yards per play. We try to be the defense that prevents points. And don't get me wrong, New England very much concerns me. They're the kind of team that would be content to run 5 yard option routes all the way down the field. Which we would absolutely have to adjust for.

And maybe I'm giving him too much credit. But I've spent most of the season focusing on our CBs (always my favorite position to watch), and you can see it in the technique of Peters and Nelson. They have completely different objectives depending on the situation. They have no intention of shut down coverage on some plays, despite being in man. They alternate between trailing technique and aggressive technique based on the situation. It looks to me as though the defenses is called with the game as a whole in mind, as opposed to trying to call it to win every play (which is impossible, anyways.)
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7806
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good take and I guess you also have your concerns about playing that way vs NE (and maybe Pit to an extent). So yeah, it all comes down to has Sutton adjusted enough on 3rd downs to get off the field enough vs those teams. Cuz I am fine with giving up the yards.

And you don't need to really embellish or be more clear....I've stated several times...middle of the pack in yards is fine with me if teams aren't scoring. But sucking on 3rd downs is not...and the fact is teams did score a little more on us than the past 3 years, which imo had alot to do with 3rd down defense. Hopefully it is better now, but against NE or even Pit i'm not so sure...

Maybe my line of thinking is more towards Pit/NE are the teams we need to beat to go to the SB...so i'm hoping our defense is designed or formulated by this time of the year to beat them and get their offense off the field as much as possible. NE doesn't have any playmakers who are gonna go for big plays unless the design/blocking is just perfect. We need to tighten up on these guys...atleast more than usual.

I would probly favor us to win in Foxboro if we had a Wade Phillips or even Crennel coached D with this personnel going after Brady. They way we do it has a chance to be good enough, but it's more iffy, imo. (Again, I bring up Ford vs Edelman on 3rd down, WTF?).
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BroncosFan2010 wrote:

Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.
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Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 13849
Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

23-10 the last two seasons I guess there's always room for improvement...

I think I'm just gonna enjoy the ride. I remember the Crennel days, no thanks
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game3525 wrote:
Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 1513
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I remember the Crennel days, no thanks
Dittos.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7806
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="mayanfootball"]
Quote:
I remember the Crennel days, no thanks
Dittos.[/quote

what he did as DC/HC was forgetable. But 2010/2011 in KC and what he's doing in Hou w out Watt speaks for itself. Hes clearly updated himself.
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Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.
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