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The Definition of Insanity......

 
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bagh


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9241
Location: Toronto, Ontario (That's Canada folks )
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: The Definition of Insanity...... Reply with quote

So, I have been going into the NFL General Forum a little bit more lately since the traffic here has died down, but I am regretting it.

It seems like that place is always stuck in a time loop. All the thread and discussions seem to never change.

For example, there is a thread there on whether or not Eli is Hall of Fame Worthy. I kind of put my 2 cents in it and I am not planning on going back. but I thought I would take an honest assessment from Giants Fans.

How many of you guys think Eli is Hall of Fame Worthy, and more importantly why?

Who here doesn't think he is and why?
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 25333
Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well to me there is a difference between asking "Will Eli be in the HOF" and "Is Eli HOF worthy". I think..

- If he retired today and never played another game he'd be on the cusp and have a shot at making it but certainly not 1st ballot.

-If he plays out his contract and continues to average his production he is putting up in the West Coast offense he'll finish top 5-10 in all time bulk stats. Add that to an impressive legacy resume and I think he def gets in (but again not 1st ballot).

- If he wins another ring he's a 1st ballot HOF'er no questions asked

Whether he's "worthy" now that is a tough one to answer. I love the guy (even though I want to strangle him half the time) but I'm one of those people that believe the HOF should be reserved for the truly elite. And I don't feel Eli was ever in that conversation. Consistently a top 10 QB throughout his career with 2 historic postseason runs I think puts him just short of "worthiness".

But what I believe the HOF "should be" and what it actually is are two different things. If you look at the HOF voting committee you'll see the likes of Peter King, John Clayton, Chris Mortensen etc and a plethora of national sports writers. These are sports media pundits who make a living off of dramatizing sport achievements. So in that environment I think they will find him worthy even if I do not.

This postseason could go a long way in helping his cause. He plays well again and puts up a couple of solid performances and he could drastically improve the argument even if he falls short of the ring.
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Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 17498
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not first ballot unless he wins another ring, but he'll get in. The two playoff runs culminating in epic game winning drives against the evil empire will be the primary factor. However, he's also been an iron man and accumulated some bulk stats that can't be ignored. He's a couple thousand yards from being 6th all time in passing yards. He's in the single digits all time in TD passes. He hasn't exactly been efficient throughout his career and has high INTs, so that will be the debate.
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scar988 wrote:
I'm of the belief the best QB in NY right now (July 2017) is Geno Smith.

SMH
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Go_Giants


Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Posts: 285
Location: New York City
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he retired today he is in the hall of fame.

How many other QB during his time won two Superbowls and was the Superbowl MVP twice.

He is also the current Iron Man of the NFL.

He also has the play that is the most memorable throw and catch in NFL history.

Plus the last name of Manning does mean something.

Because some of the HOF voters can be anti New York he probably will not get in on the first ballot but he will get in.
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mattbags2313


Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 2602
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Not first ballot unless he wins another ring, but he'll get in. The two playoff runs culminating in epic game winning drives against the evil empire will be the primary factor. However, he's also been an iron man and accumulated some bulk stats that can't be ignored. He's a couple thousand yards from being 6th all time in passing yards. He's in the single digits all time in TD passes. He hasn't exactly been efficient throughout his career and has high INTs, so that will be the debate.




i dont think the INTs will make much of a difference. thanks brett farve
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GEE MEN


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 4597
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps showing my age but I saw Montana, Elway and other greats through their tough times and their amazing clutch times (including "the Catch" for Montana and "the Drive" for Elway) and later Aikman and others. From what I remember of watching their games early on at the time nobody was thinking of them as HOF QBs certainly until the rings. Looking back, many who did not see them did not see the bad but only remember the amazing moments. Now each of those QBs had their own skill set...while Montana didnt have a strong arm, he accuracy was deadly. Elway had the strongest arm I had ever seen with mobility. What eat possessed no matter what kind of season they had was the uncanny especially at crunch time. Eli possesses that same magic.

Eli is already in the top 10 of most statistical categories for QBs so for the stat types who love reciting stats usually from our rivals, Eli will check that box. What has Eli in the HOF conversation and why I think if his career ended today he'd be voted in are not just having 2 Super Bowl MVPs but how he did it with -- not just the flawless performances in both playoff runs BUT winning the Super Bowls in the waning moments of the 4th QTR for comeback wins. Doing so on the biggest world stage of sports against the team with arguably the greatest QB to play to me is plenty to get in even 1st ballot.

http://2paragraphs.com/2015/10/giants-niners-eli-manning-v-joe-montana-surprisingly-close/

http://sports-kings.com/nfl-news-channel/eli-manning-vs-troy-aikman

I am sure that there is more out there but a cursory research shows not-so-far-off production and this is all at least a year removed.
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Desperado82 wrote:
I will never defend Romo again. I'm done. We may only have a shot at the playoffs or what have you because of him, but he will NEVER put us over the hump.
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GmenSeattle


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Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 10897
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's in. The number of QBs with multiple Super Bowl wins and Super Bowl MVPs NOT in the hall?

Zero.
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bzane


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1228
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: The Definition of Insanity...... Reply with quote

bagh wrote:
So, I have been going into the NFL General Forum a little bit more lately since the traffic here has died down, but I am regretting it.

It seems like that place is always stuck in a time loop. All the thread and discussions seem to never change.

For example, there is a thread there on whether or not Eli is Hall of Fame Worthy. I kind of put my 2 cents in it and I am not planning on going back. but I thought I would take an honest assessment from Giants Fans.

How many of you guys think Eli is Hall of Fame Worthy, and more importantly why?

Who here doesn't think he is and why?


I read over that NFL General thread, bagh, and got the sense that if Eli were a Dallas Cowboy he not only would be enshrined, 1st ballot, but might even be given his own wing of the building.

Anyway, if I may hazard an opinion: Eli gets criticized because of his statistics, and that may be a valid argument. But what is best about Eli, and goes beyond passing yards, TD's, and QB ratings, is that rare ability to elevate his game on the big stage. I am reminded of Derek Jeter in baseball- so many times, in the most important games, Jeter would find a way to win- make the big play for the Yankees, whether it be fielding, or hitting, or base running. His stats may have fallen well short of those of Alex Rodriguez, but no question who you'd want on your team in the World Series. And that, to me, is what has been best about Eli.
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